Battles of Middle Earth

I had an old game cube game about the third Lord of the Rings movie. The battle of Mines Tirith and the Fields of Pelenor were the hardest battles by far. For Mines Tirith you had to defend the walls as Gandalf, knocking down siege towers with magic and making sure the walls were not overrun by Uruks. Then you had to also manage the different courtyards as Ologs and trolls were bursting in and attacking the inner gates. Finally you have to make your final stand against hordes of enemies pouring in from different breaches in the walls. Not fun.

The Pelenor one was stopping those massive war elephants from advancing and killing the Witch King. They gave you a choice as who to play and I used a hobbit of course. A little 4 and a half foot tall manchild killing war elephants and Nazgul.

My favorite battle is probably Helm's Deep. It's the classic outnumbered/outgunned defensive battle.

Was it this game by chance?




I also played this game, but on the PS2. The Pelennor Fields was by far the hardest for me!

I think so, but it was on game cube not ps2. The best part of Pelenor Fields was running around as Pippen and dunking the witch king.


I also played Aragorn's Quest on the wii which was pretty cool.

No, the Two Towers is about the second movie.

Aragorn's Quest encompassed every movie. It was sort of free roam too which was fun.

This comment may be better post on the Presentasion, but I wipl bring it here, at least as a curiosity.

I found a bit about the organisation of armies in Middle Earth:

a) in the case of the orcs and their allieds, the organisation goes like this:



- a band, just like the one that captured Meriadoc and Peregrin after the skirmish at Amon Hen, is composer from 25 to 200 strong and was commanded by a chieftain

- a company was composed out of 100-1000 strong and was commanded by a chieftain or captain

- a great company had between 1000-3000 strong and was commanded by captain or chief

- a legion is composed out of 5000-10,000 strong and had a captain

- an army was 10,000 strong and was commanded by a king, captain or lord

- an army was between 10,000 and 25,000 strong and was commanded by a captain

- a host had 30,000-50,000+ soldiers and could be commanded by a captain, lieutenant or Balrog captain

- a great host had 60,000 to up 1,000,000 soldiers and was commanded by a hight-captain or Marshal of the Hosts

- a realm was containing all the armies







b ) for Dwarves, Men and Elves, it works very similar to the orcs:



- band (10-200 men commanded by a chieftain)

- company (100-1000 men commanded by a captain)

- great company (1000-3000 men commanded by a captain or chief)

- army (10,000-25,000 men commanded by a king, captain or lord)

- host (20,000-50,000 men* commanded by a king, hight-captain or lord)

- Great Army (60,000-100,000 men commanded by a hight-king, king, herald or hight-captain)

- realm (all armues commanded by a hight-king, king or lord)



*The Host of the West that participated in the Battle of the Black Gate, even if not having more than 5-6000 men on the battlefield, can still be considered a host.





"There are certainly times when some of these words: host, army, company, band are used outside of this context. For example: host can refer to the whole of a people which includes males, females and children, not just the warriors, or "the war-high", to use Tolkien's own phrase. At times, army can mean a singular fighting force of no set size, as can company, or host. Within the context of most battle, or war, descriptions these terms are generally consistent throughout the canon. More modern military terms such as battalion and regiment see occasional use, but are not widespread.

While estimates of numbers can be often supported textually by simple extension of textually cited numbers, they are only estimates when there is not a specific number stated by Tolkien. However, it can be said with some certainty that a description of strength using the Names, such as: Name-host (e.g. Great-host) as a number of the Name-armies (e.g. Orc-armies), is supported textually across the board in the canon, as the selected, but by no means only, references demonstrate.

It is important to consider the context in which these terms appear in the stories since, as a writer of fiction, Tolkien's primary purpose is to engage and entertain the reader while not being tied to a set terminology the way a military historian must be. Tolkien sometimes adopts just that historian stance going into great detail about tactical movements, weapons and formations as he does in The Battles of the Fords of Isen, or Cirion and Eorl. He can apply the same attention to detail to the drill of a shield-wall formation as to the intricacies of family relationships of the Sackville-Baggins."









Armies during the Third Age and the War of the Ring:



"In the War of the Ring, the Siege of Gondor and the Battle of Pelennor Fields are good examples of a mix of precise military detail and panoramic narrative. The catalogue of companies from the outlying provinces that come to Gondor's aid is numbered at less than 3000, with company sizes ranging from a stated 100 to 700 men in precise detail. The numbers of the original garrison of Minas Tirith and the forward garrison of Osgiliathand Faramir's company of Ithilien are not specified. However, it is described panoramically that, following his defeat at Osgiliath, Faramir is outnumbered by ten times and that he loses one third of his men. The muster of Rohan adds another 6,000 horsemen to the total of the defence of Minas Tirith. The forces of Mordor contained Orcs, Trolls, the Ringwraiths including other various races of Middle-earth. The sent allies were from the areas threatened by Corsairs of Umbar, and therefore were much less numerous than initially expected. Lossarnach, for example, only sent one tenth, and less than three thousands arrived in all. Assuming similar reduction in other forces spared by the allies, that would mean that around 20-30,000 remained, along with those who may not have been expected to be spared anyway. A large number of those people were gathered by Aragorn and came to Pelennor on Umbar ships, turning the tide of battle by arriving where (and when) the allies of Minas Tirith were least expected. Slaves and captives were released as well, but it is unclear whether they were in good enough condition to fight (the rowers probably were, since the Pirates would have needed them in good working condition for the next few days), or whether arms could be found for them in time for departure. More still came later on their own ships, and 4,000 were sent by land. It is said that all the comers (and the remaining Rohirrim) were sufficient to more than replace the losses of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, as well as the 7,000 going to the Morannon. There are no specific totals given for the forces of Mordor, but there are comparisons to stated numbers that imply totals within the panoramic narrative. When the army of the West comes to the Morannon it is less than 6,000 strong and is outnumbered "ten times and more than ten times" by a "great host" out of the Morannon, Orcs from the hills flanking the Morannon, and an army of Easterlings, or some 60,000 to 75,000. This force is later called "hosts", indicating at least 2 hosts, each 30,000–40,000 strong.

The Morgul-host, led by the Witch-king, is described as the greatest army to "issue from that vale since Isildur, no host so fell and strong in arms...yet it was but one and not the greatest of the hosts that Mordor now sent forth..." and it has a "great cavalry of horsemen" in advance of it. At the Pelennor Fields, the Haradrim, consisting of footmen, horsemen and mûmakil, are said to "thrice" outnumber the 6,000 Riders of Rohan, a possibility that the army consists of more than 18,000. These regiments of Haradrim are said to have joined the Morgul-host at Osgiliath. At the same time, infantry from the city sally against "the legions of Morgul that were still gathered there in strength", or at least 2 legions and there arrives the Morgul-host reserves composed of forces from the Rhûn, Khand, Southrons, and Far Harad. Legions of the Haradrim from the south in Peter Jackson's adaptation of The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. Additionally, north of the city near Cair Andros, another host of Orcs and Men out of the East advancing from the Morannon cuts the road north to Rohan. This host of Mordor blocking the road to Minas Tirith is "very many, more than Horse-men (of Rohan)", according to Ghân-buri-Ghân. Further north, forces from Dol Guldur attack Thranduil and thrice assault Lórien, and Eastern Rohan is attacked from the north by a force elsewhere described as an Orc-host, a host of Easterlings attacks Dalein the far north. At least 5 distinct hosts from Mordor can be identified: 2 hosts of the Great Host at the Morannon; the Morgul-host (which later in the battle is called "hosts" and therefore contains at least 2 hosts); the host near Cair Andros. According to Gandalf, Sauron used more than half his strength for the assault on Gondor. This leaves something less than that for the 4 forces elsewhere. 2 of these are distinctly identified as hosts: the Host of Easterling allies at Dale; the Orc-host invading East Rohan from the north while another host, at least, is implied by the attacks, 3 on Lórien and 1 on Thranduil, out of Dol Guldur. Taking a median total strength for any host of 40,000, a general minimum estimate for the 8 to 9 hosts (16 to 18 armies) of Sauron in the War of the Ring is therefore about 320,000–360,000. All arms, which includes the fleet and crews out of Umbar, would add somewhat to the total.



Saruman's Hosts during the War of the Ring can be shown to fall within the parameters of the above charts even though they are unusual in that it is where Tolkien uses the more modern terms of battalion and regiment for some smaller formations. In The Two Towers Merry states "... there must have been ten thousand at the very least.". This number is later qualified by Gandalf: "I have about ten thousand Orcs to manage.", that is to say at Helm's Deep, not including other members of Saruman's hosts: "troops on great wolves", "battalions of Men", "half-orcs". The chart above shows that a host can be composed of two armies or, an army and auxiliaries. The chart also shows that an army may be ten thousand strong. The above first hand eyewitness accounts from the characters are not the only sources of information on the hosts of Saruman. There is an historical essay style analysis of the two battles of the Fords of Isen in Unfinished Tales in which the compositions and organizations of Saruman's forces are further explained. While Grimbold of Rohan's command struggles with one army, " "He (Saruman's commander) was now in doubt. He awaited, maybe, some signal from the other army that had been sent down the east side of Isen." author's note". Grimbold did not know that "a large army had already some hours passed southward" to Helm's Deep. This army east of Isen is also stated to be "more than half of Saruman's force...". The east army also has auxiliaries of wolf riders, a large body that scatters Elfhelm's force on the east bank of Isen. An additional source is the book The War of the Ring in which Saruman's army west of Isen is joined by an auxiliary force of Dunlending Men that "came up from the land away west".

All these sources support Christopher Tolkien's descriptions of Saruman's overall strength as a "great host" and the east army as a "great army" and can account for J.R.R. Tolkien's description of Saruman's forces at the Battle of the Hornburg: " The hosts of Isengard roared..." as defined on the charts: host as an army with auxiliaries and a great hostas two such hosts, therefore: one host of Saruman's army west of Isen with its allied Dunland Men from the west and another host of more than half his force composed of Saruman's great army east of Isen with wolf riders. The forces Saruman has at his disposal are unique in that they do not outnumber the forces opposed to them, unlike the usual war situations in Middle-earth in which the forces of darkness nearly always vastly outnumber the forces of light. Saruman's east army, which is more than half his strength, is estimated at ten thousand. With the west army and auxiliaries he originally had perhaps twenty thousand or so at Isengard and is later joined at the fords of Isen by some additional thousands of the Men of Dunland from the west. This twenty thousand is opposed to the overall strength of Rohan which it does not outnumber by much, if at all. Rohan's forces are also given as twenty thousand: ten thousand horsemen with spears, the Éoherë, or Horse army, and another ten thousand foot and mounted infantry. Saruman's main advantages are that he has seized the initiative with his concentrated force in attacks against piecemeal fractions. First, at the Fords of Isen, some thirty-five hundred Rohirrim are defeated and then Helm's Deep is stormed where the garrison is only two thousand strong and includes Théoden, the King of Rohan, while the rest of Rohan's strength is dispersed. After all the losses, Théoden says he would have sent ten thousand spears to aid Minas Tirith, but he cannot spare more than 6,000 from the defence of his own strongholds. As a clear example of how context should be considered, in the Tale of the Years, the force that Aragorn leads to the Gates of Mordor is called the "Host of the West" and it does not have the strength estimate found above in the charts. But, in this context, the word Host is used as a general description of a disparate group of warriors from different armies, for whom specific numbers have preceded the use of the word elsewhere in the book. Host of the West, as a title, indicates it is an encompassing phrase. In earlier chapters in The Return of the King, Tolkien consistently calls it an army initially, even having the character of Imrahil say ironically that, " ... this is the greatest jest in all the history of Gondor: that we should ride with seven thousands, scarce as many as the vanguard of its army in the days of its power...".

The seven thousands of the Host of the West are one thousand men of Rohan under Éomer, five hundred on horse, five hundred on foot and the five hundred knights of Dol Amroth with some Dúnedain; two thousand foot under Aragorn from Lebennin and the southern fiefs; and finally thirty-five hundred foot under Imrahil composed of the great companies of Minas Tirith. The great companies of Minas Tirith probably include: at least three companies of the Tower of Guard; one or more companies of the Men of the City; some two companies, or more, of archers from Ithilien, one from Henneth Annûn commanded by Mablung."

For me, my favourite soldiers of the "good guys" are the Dwarves, closely followed by Elves, Arnorians and Rohhirim.


As for the "bad guys", there are two cases:

a) evil men: my personal favourite are the golden soldiers of Rhun, followed by Harad
b) orcs: my favourite orc breed is the Uruk-Hai from Isengard