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Post by malemermaid on Nov 16, 2019 18:46:26 GMT
I'm gonna go for the meme, and say a unit you put in the sea, and you fight with this unit
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Post by SolidLight on May 2, 2020 17:12:02 GMT
Actually. While archers are the worst units for the player, they're the best units for the enemy. Remember what I said about archers being like WC3 Field artillery? WC3 Field Artillery were horrible to fight. ESPECIALLY when they were loaded up with generals (Blamey says hi). There were no effective weapons against them and they hit really hard. The only solution against those were to kill them as fast as possible while accepting the massive counterattack damage they dealt (or air, but they don't have a weakness to air). And you couldn't really ignore them either since they'd just get a ton of free attacks against you.
Archers in GCR are a lot like that but not as bad. Except for javelineers. Those are really tough, hit like trains, and can't be ignored. Those are the most problematic enemies for me when I play campaign. I'd like to hear how other people deal with them, since I don't know how.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on May 3, 2020 17:55:55 GMT
Actually. While archers are the worst units for the player, they're the best units for the enemy. Remember what I said about archers being like WC3 Field artillery? WC3 Field Artillery were horrible to fight. ESPECIALLY when they were loaded up with generals (Blamey says hi). There were no effective weapons against them and they hit really hard. The only solution against those were to kill them as fast as possible while accepting the massive counterattack damage they dealt (or air, but they don't have a weakness to air). And you couldn't really ignore them either since they'd just get a ton of free attacks against you. Archers in GCR are a lot like that but not as bad. Except for javelineers. Those are really tough, hit like trains, and can't be ignored. Those are the most problematic enemies for me when I play campaign. I'd like to hear how other people deal with them, since I don't know how. Imo its the opposite. Field Artillery in wc3 was overpowered to put it lightly. If you wanted to win a front, all you had to do was spam field artillery. Their main drawbacks was not their output but rather their low health and mobility. As city defense units, they definitely shined. Arnold (1 artillery star, no skills) was actually not too shabby on one and was better than goering on infantry (3 stars infantry + lvl 1 bayonet charge) due to his huge amount of health and great movement. Archers are on the on the otherhand are field artillery but take away the amazing damage. They are meh and by far the easiest unit to kill. Caesar on marksmann is very easy to crush by flanking him with heavy infantry. Due to his low health and the low damage of archers, he will be very easy to kill. On the otherhand, a heavy infantry unit is not easy to kill at all. And one with a general is extremely painful to fight against. Fighting Crassus as the Selucid Empire is very painful. In comparison, killing caesar as the helvetti is much easier, despite him being backed up by anthony. Archers are really bad in this game imo and are useless with the exception of slingers to take out armored units, and archer generals like mihredates who have archer commander and can really take advantage of the non retaliation attacks. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on May 3, 2020 17:56:28 GMT
Actually. While archers are the worst units for the player, they're the best units for the enemy. Remember what I said about archers being like WC3 Field artillery? WC3 Field Artillery were horrible to fight. ESPECIALLY when they were loaded up with generals (Blamey says hi). There were no effective weapons against them and they hit really hard. The only solution against those were to kill them as fast as possible while accepting the massive counterattack damage they dealt (or air, but they don't have a weakness to air). And you couldn't really ignore them either since they'd just get a ton of free attacks against you. Archers in GCR are a lot like that but not as bad. Except for javelineers. Those are really tough, hit like trains, and can't be ignored. Those are the most problematic enemies for me when I play campaign. I'd like to hear how other people deal with them, since I don't know how. Flank with heavy infantry and destroy. |
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Post by SolidLight on May 3, 2020 19:03:55 GMT
Actually. While archers are the worst units for the player, they're the best units for the enemy. Remember what I said about archers being like WC3 Field artillery? WC3 Field Artillery were horrible to fight. ESPECIALLY when they were loaded up with generals (Blamey says hi). There were no effective weapons against them and they hit really hard. The only solution against those were to kill them as fast as possible while accepting the massive counterattack damage they dealt (or air, but they don't have a weakness to air). And you couldn't really ignore them either since they'd just get a ton of free attacks against you. Archers in GCR are a lot like that but not as bad. Except for javelineers. Those are really tough, hit like trains, and can't be ignored. Those are the most problematic enemies for me when I play campaign. I'd like to hear how other people deal with them, since I don't know how. Imo its the opposite. Field Artillery in wc3 was overpowered to put it lightly. If you wanted to win a front, all you had to do was spam field artillery. Their main drawbacks was not their output but rather their low health and mobility. As city defense units, they definitely shined. Arnold (1 artillery star, no skills) was actually not too shabby on one and was better than goering on infantry (3 stars infantry + lvl 1 bayonet charge) due to his huge amount of health and great movement. Archers are on the on the otherhand are field artillery but take away the amazing damage. They are meh and by far the easiest unit to kill. Caesar on marksmann is very easy to crush by flanking him with heavy infantry. Due to his low health and the low damage of archers, he will be very easy to kill. On the otherhand, a heavy infantry unit is not easy to kill at all. And one with a general is extremely painful to fight against. Fighting Crassus as the Selucid Empire is very painful. In comparison, killing caesar as the helvetti is much easier, despite him being backed up by anthony. Archers are really bad in this game imo and are useless with the exception of slingers to take out armored units, and archer generals like mihredates who have archer commander and can really take advantage of the non retaliation attacks. I think I worded that badly. I meant "bad" in that FAs are a pain to fight. GCR Archers aren't as bad to fight. They should still be the first priority to take down due to not taking counterattacks though. Also, the existence of movement stars and that the general HP bonus was ADDITIVE in WC3 eliminated most, if not all of FAs weaknesses. Fighting FA generals with 300 HP is really painful and there's no natural counter to that except for mass rocket artillery. I surround javelineers with heavy cavalry gens and still get crippled. Can't deal good enough damage with swords. Spears also do 80% damage against heavy armor, so I don't see how using heavy infantry would be that much better aside from taking less damage from javelin generals with accuracy (which isn't that strong). War Elephants are the only good counter I can think of, but those are exclusive to Carthage. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on May 4, 2020 0:48:59 GMT
Imo its the opposite. Field Artillery in wc3 was overpowered to put it lightly. If you wanted to win a front, all you had to do was spam field artillery. Their main drawbacks was not their output but rather their low health and mobility. As city defense units, they definitely shined. Arnold (1 artillery star, no skills) was actually not too shabby on one and was better than goering on infantry (3 stars infantry + lvl 1 bayonet charge) due to his huge amount of health and great movement. Archers are on the on the otherhand are field artillery but take away the amazing damage. They are meh and by far the easiest unit to kill. Caesar on marksmann is very easy to crush by flanking him with heavy infantry. Due to his low health and the low damage of archers, he will be very easy to kill. On the otherhand, a heavy infantry unit is not easy to kill at all. And one with a general is extremely painful to fight against. Fighting Crassus as the Selucid Empire is very painful. In comparison, killing caesar as the helvetti is much easier, despite him being backed up by anthony. Archers are really bad in this game imo and are useless with the exception of slingers to take out armored units, and archer generals like mihredates who have archer commander and can really take advantage of the non retaliation attacks. I think I worded that badly. I meant "bad" in that FAs are a pain to fight. GCR Archers aren't as bad to fight. They should still be the first priority to take down due to not taking counterattacks though. Also, the existence of movement stars and that the general HP bonus was ADDITIVE in WC3 eliminated most, if not all of FAs weaknesses. Fighting FA generals with 300 HP is really painful and there's no natural counter to that except for mass rocket artillery. I surround javelineers with heavy cavalry gens and still get crippled. Can't deal good enough damage with swords. Spears also do 80% damage against heavy armor, so I don't see how using heavy infantry would be that much better aside from taking less damage from javelin generals with accuracy (which isn't that strong). War Elephants are the only good counter I can think of, but those are exclusive to Carthage. Ah yes, javalineers are the only good archery unit imo. Horse archers are super weak and easily killed, although quite fast and rather strong. Yes other than elephants or wood raiders, there are no extremely powerful units against javalineers. |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on May 4, 2020 6:36:28 GMT
I think I worded that badly. I meant "bad" in that FAs are a pain to fight. GCR Archers aren't as bad to fight. They should still be the first priority to take down due to not taking counterattacks though. Also, the existence of movement stars and that the general HP bonus was ADDITIVE in WC3 eliminated most, if not all of FAs weaknesses. Fighting FA generals with 300 HP is really painful and there's no natural counter to that except for mass rocket artillery. I surround javelineers with heavy cavalry gens and still get crippled. Can't deal good enough damage with swords. Spears also do 80% damage against heavy armor, so I don't see how using heavy infantry would be that much better aside from taking less damage from javelin generals with accuracy (which isn't that strong). War Elephants are the only good counter I can think of, but those are exclusive to Carthage. Ah yes, javalineers are the only good archery unit imo. Horse archers are super weak and easily killed, although quite fast and rather strong. Yes other than elephants or wood raiders, there are no extremely powerful units against javalineers. If I face any elite unit, my preference is to spam slingers. Highly effective against Inf and Cav in terms of attacking both, but easily slain by all. Call them Javelin, Spear or Sword fodder OR glass cannons, but they still get the job done. Bonus points for being available for all countries and relatively cheap. |
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Post by SolidLight on May 4, 2020 7:17:21 GMT
Ah yes, javalineers are the only good archery unit imo. Horse archers are super weak and easily killed, although quite fast and rather strong. Yes other than elephants or wood raiders, there are no extremely powerful units against javalineers. If I face any elite unit, my preference is to spam slingers. Highly effective against Inf and Cav in terms of attacking both, but easily slain by all. Call them Javelin, Spear or Sword fodder OR glass cannons, but they still get the job done. Bonus points for being available for all countries and relatively cheap. Slingers gets counterattacked by javelineers though. You can surround and cripple a heavy infantry/cavalry unit with a swarm of slingers, but against javelineers they'll get destroyed. |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on May 4, 2020 8:09:28 GMT
If I face any elite unit, my preference is to spam slingers. Highly effective against Inf and Cav in terms of attacking both, but easily slain by all. Call them Javelin, Spear or Sword fodder OR glass cannons, but they still get the job done. Bonus points for being available for all countries and relatively cheap. Slingers gets counterattacked by javelineers though. You can surround and cripple a heavy infantry/cavalry unit with a swarm of slingers, but against javelineers they'll get destroyed. For handling elite units, I'm thinking more like the Soviets and Americans did against German tanks: You CAN send in quality troops to fight quality enemy troops. However, it's better to mass produce relatively cheap, but still powerful troops to swarm the enemy's elites. This is especially more so with Conquest. |
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Post by SolidLight on May 4, 2020 10:31:10 GMT
Slingers gets counterattacked by javelineers though. You can surround and cripple a heavy infantry/cavalry unit with a swarm of slingers, but against javelineers they'll get destroyed. For handling elite units, I'm thinking more like the Soviets and Americans did against German tanks: You CAN send in quality troops to fight quality enemy troops. However, it's better to mass produce relatively cheap, but still powerful troops to swarm the enemy's elites. This is especially more so with Conquest. I guess you can do that, but it really isn’t a better option, and it’s pretty much infeasible in campaign, where javelineers are most problematic. Swarming with garbage troops is not cheap at all and the game discourages this and encourages high focused damage since you don’t take counterattacks on kills and high tier cities are surrounded by lots of small facilities. The only reason why swarming with low tier units works in conquest is because those are far more available than high tier units. However, if a high tier unit is so powerful that you don’t need that many to wreck face, then the small powerful elite option is much better than the huge low tier unit swarm option. War chariots are an example of such a unit. And it’s infeasible in campaign. Unlike in conquest you usually don’t have much population to spare and money is much tighter. And the enemy is often in larger stacks. How many slingers do you need to down a 4 stacked javelineer? |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on May 4, 2020 11:42:23 GMT
True. Either ways, it goes to show the undeniable power of certain powerful archers, especially when they used at the right time under the most optimal circumstances.
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Post by Marshal Forwards on May 7, 2020 10:50:54 GMT
For handling elite units, I'm thinking more like the Soviets and Americans did against German tanks: You CAN send in quality troops to fight quality enemy troops. However, it's better to mass produce relatively cheap, but still powerful troops to swarm the enemy's elites. This is especially more so with Conquest. I guess you can do that, but it really isn’t a better option, and it’s pretty much infeasible in campaign, where javelineers are most problematic. Swarming with garbage troops is not cheap at all and the game discourages this and encourages high focused damage since you don’t take counterattacks on kills and high tier cities are surrounded by lots of small facilities. The only reason why swarming with low tier units works in conquest is because those are far more available than high tier units. However, if a high tier unit is so powerful that you don’t need that many to wreck face, then the small powerful elite option is much better than the huge low tier unit swarm option. War chariots are an example of such a unit. And it’s infeasible in campaign. Unlike in conquest you usually don’t have much population to spare and money is much tighter. And the enemy is often in larger stacks. How many slingers do you need to down a 4 stacked javelineer? Javelineer are really a pain to fight. The best you could do against them is to surround and attack first with a gen with Intercept on a Legionaire, on a mountain hex with doubled evasion. Here hide would be nice but I have only Drusus with this skill. I also build breast works. As you said in another thread, it’s better to spend iron/tools for fortifications than gold for spaming. If I can’t finish the javelineers in one round I set them on fire. When they defends a city I use plague first, then fire and let both do part of the job. |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on May 7, 2020 14:29:35 GMT
I guess you can do that, but it really isn’t a better option, and it’s pretty much infeasible in campaign, where javelineers are most problematic. Swarming with garbage troops is not cheap at all and the game discourages this and encourages high focused damage since you don’t take counterattacks on kills and high tier cities are surrounded by lots of small facilities. The only reason why swarming with low tier units works in conquest is because those are far more available than high tier units. However, if a high tier unit is so powerful that you don’t need that many to wreck face, then the small powerful elite option is much better than the huge low tier unit swarm option. War chariots are an example of such a unit. And it’s infeasible in campaign. Unlike in conquest you usually don’t have much population to spare and money is much tighter. And the enemy is often in larger stacks. How many slingers do you need to down a 4 stacked javelineer? Javelineer are really a pain to fight. The best you could do against them is to surround and attack first with a gen with Intercept on a Legionaire, on a mountain hex with doubled evasion. Here hide would be nice but I have only Drusus with this skill. I also build breast works. As you said in another thread, it’s better to spend iron/tools for fortifications than gold for spaming. If I can’t finish the javelineers in one round I set them on fire. When they defends a city I use plague first, then fire and let both do part of the job. I'm trying out the Boii in Rome and Han and I got to face Drusus and Octavian. My strategy? Spam slingers to weaken the other elites and pray that my allies Dacia and the Han get here in time. I may have lost the 2nd Battle of Tarsatica, but Rome had lost the war in Europe. |
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sugarman
Captain
Possibly the World Record Score Holder (but probably not)
Posts: 92
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Post by sugarman on Aug 7, 2021 8:01:40 GMT
Was thinking about types of attack and looks like infantry is actually the best unit type. Max efficiency against Heavy infantry/Legionary - Thump attack. And as I understand only War Elephants has this type of attack.But we definetely can't use War elephants with every country and even with those who has such a possibility it won't be that easy. Other unit types basically can't counter heavy infantry effectively. So whatever unit You use to attack heavy infantry You'll face that broken sword blue sign saying Your attack efficiency is lower than 100%. The best among them is probably Javelineer due to its special ability. Of course all heavy armoured units arte difficult to fight against, but infantry is the easiest to obtain and use. So, yes, that old discussion that infantry has no any specific "feature" can be raised once again. How do you thing dagonithtr ?  Slingers thump HI/L hard, especially with Drusus and a stack of 5 - I have done 300+ damage to them at times; plus they are very efficient at flattening walls, and dirt cheap. |
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Post by NotRandom on Aug 15, 2021 18:50:48 GMT
the best unit is javelin therefore the best unit type is archers (wot)
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