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Post by kingbutawl on Jul 30, 2019 15:27:24 GMT
Deleted, the best skill in the game is commander. Are You serious about Drusus? I can understand this guy with banana, but You.. I am the corrupt president of a third world nation with double the economic resources of the U.S . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 15:29:43 GMT
andrei, since the argument of Drusus being good or not will never resolve, let's just agree that Tigranes II is the best archer, and all archers, even Caesar, is below him 
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Post by kingbutawl on Jul 30, 2019 15:48:09 GMT
Drusus deserves attention . He is op , even if I have a maxed Mythridates:D
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Post by Reinhard Von Lohengramm on Jul 30, 2019 17:04:29 GMT
kingbutawl, i agree, Drusus is good because he dont need much investment to be good, inspire + advantage + crossbow, have a good and consistent damage, he is a solid gen, but Mithridates is better by far, more critical rate (scare+ crossbow + advantage +orations),rate of attack twice, besiege + jungle fight.
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Post by dsongop on Jul 30, 2019 17:08:27 GMT
I tried Drusus and Mythridates on the same unit in the fifth Caesar campaign and the first one dealed more damage than "lion cape" . Drusus 171 damage against 168 of Mythridates , but the conqueror of Germania managed to critic hit two or three times more against stronger or equally thick units . Mythridates in a fair game with the same amount of troops of the opponent can only overwhelm him 1 out of 4 . Drussus seems cheaper but boy he is not. Commander skills are 45 medals, and Mith has all 4 skills. The total value of Mithridates' skills minus his price is greater than the value of Drussus' skills minus his price, which means that Mithridates is a better buy than Drussus. Let me know if that makes sense. Additionally, 171 and 168 are pretty much the same, try it again and it's likely that Mithridates will have higher output. Also try putting him on a forest tile. |
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Post by andrei on Jul 30, 2019 17:43:27 GMT
andrei , since the argument of Drusus being good or not will never resolve, let's just agree that Tigranes II is the best archer, and all archers, even Caesar, is below him Why there is no hype around Pacorus I? I mean everybody agrees he is great starting gen, but only starting. Noone is trying to compare him with top tier cavalry generals. And Drusus is basically archer Pacorus. Real power is just Inspire. There is nothing else unfortunately. |
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jcash
First Lieutenant
Posts: 20 
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Post by jcash on Jul 30, 2019 18:00:46 GMT
Dsongop I totally agree with you and Andrei. Mithridates is much better value and the commander skill is so useful esp for archers. Sure Drussus has his place but for me he’s a silver general with a gold price tag.
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Post by stoic on Jul 30, 2019 18:49:09 GMT
I'll try to explain how I see this situation. I think that dilemma "Mithridates vs. Drusus" is a false one. There are only 3 interesting archers in the game: Mithridates, Octavian and Drusus. If someone is planning to use 3 archer generals - then we simply don't have much choice, to be honest, and, therefore, no room for an argument. The situation is different if someone (like me, for example) is planning to use only two. Then it is rather a "Drusus vs. Octavian" dilemma.
Why we speak of Drusus' talent more often than of the same one of Pacorus? Simply because his rank is equal to that of Octavian. So, both of them have 8 stars and the same rank. Neither of them has an advantage in this respect. Drusus' talent increases his attack by 19-30 points (at least, it was the difference between my commander with a crown and without it). This alone can fully compensate Octavian's two important skills - Accuracy and Counterattack. Accuracy (as it seems to me now) is applicable only when we are attacking, while counterattack is a purely defensive skill. Drusus's talent works in attack, as well as in defence. And what is more, Drusus' attack is better against infantry and other archers, than that of Octavian.
Drusus has a relatively high probability of a critical damage. With a crossbow, fully upgraded skill and a flag it is 40%. Octavian, on the other hand has an excellent skill - Archer Commander. The problem with it is that we can only speak of 20% in case of Octavian. Why? Because very likely we will increase the same skill of Mithridates with a flag. 20% is not that bad either, but it is far from building a strategy around it. My Mithridates had 20% probability and I really can't say it is a reliable probability. With a crossbow Octavian has 25% probability of a critical damage as well. Theoretically it is possible to improve Octavian's performance by using Oration, but practically there are more likely candidates. And we have at least 7 generals (in campaigns) and only one Oration. I don't believe that anyone will use a ring instead of a crossbow, so they are not worthy mentioning.
Other skills are nice, but not relevant (though I prefer Hide to Besiege).
So, we have a very imbalanced situation.
40% of probability of a critical damage (if we use a crossbow), plus consistent performance in every situation, plus better attack versus infantry and archers, plus better defense against archers (Drusus) vs. 25% of probability of a critical damage (if we use a crossbow), plus 20% of probability of a second attack, plus 16-20 points against smaller units (Octavian). I personally prefer the former.
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Post by andrei on Jul 30, 2019 19:15:59 GMT
stoic, You say You don't believe someone will use a ring which almost guarantees high morale for Your gen and say Inspire is great advantage. That is strange. You don't think someone would benefit from Accuracy and Besiege and propose to consider very dubious decision to take Hide as a good skill, which is awful of course. Nobody wants to attack archer with his own archer... Archers are too vulnerable. Even *Auto Corrected* 3stack enemy archer can annihilate let's say 2stack Ceaser. It's just tabu. Never attack archers with Your own archer, while You can deliver free damage to other unit. If I can't I'ld better not attack at all. Recieving damage with archer is a road to hell latest next turn. PS: Drusus is 8 points in archery not 9 line Your commander. Pacorus is 7 in cavalry. Just 1 point lower. Difference is only 6 attack. Pacorus has Guerilla, Drusus 15% crit. They are twin brothers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 19:16:19 GMT
I don't enjoy using archers in general (except for horse archers and my speedy Gonzales commander) , but what I value most from them is consistent damage. Cavalry has a more consistent chance of attacking again since all you need is higher damage to do so, while infantry is there to chip cities and maybe kill units here and there. For archers, I just expect them to do damage. For me, Mithridates and Drusus doesn't have that much difference,but Mithridates has the edge here. I have experience playing Mithridates since I enjoy playing Pontus Kingdom, but it isn't a max lvl or optimized Mithridates. Just give him the golden spear or a bow, and he'll be an executioner. Drusus, on the other hand, has a great talent and a skill that complements his talent. I have cleopatra, so I won't bother buying another archer for a while, but if I have the medals, I'll make a save file and personally test both out. I prefer seeing them in action rather than debate on theory.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Jul 30, 2019 19:25:11 GMT
Drusus vs Mihredates VI, who would win in a fight if they both started out with the same hp. I think we all know the answer to that. Drusus would probably have at least half of his hp intact. Plus he is so good at defending cities
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Post by andrei on Jul 30, 2019 19:29:19 GMT
Drusus vs Mihredates VI, who would win in a fight if they both started out with the same hp. I think we all know the answer to that. Drusus would probably have at least half of his hp intact. Plus he is so good at defending cities Oh, another good skill. How could I forget There is only one question. Why do we need to defend city with a general? ) Especially with Archer general. Have You ever tried. I am asking because I tried Bad experience. Couple of non-gen swordsman just knock Youur gen out for good. Such a waste. |
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Post by stoic on Jul 30, 2019 19:36:43 GMT
stoic, You say You don't believe someone will use a ring which almost guarantees high morale for Your gen and say Inspire is great advantage. That is strange. You don't think someone would benefit from Accuracy and Besiege and propose to consider very dubious decision to take Hide as a good skill, which is awful of course. Nobody wants to attack archer with his own archer... Archers are too vulnerable. Even *Auto Corrected* 3stack enemy archer can annihilate let's say 2stack Ceaser. It's just tabu. Never attack archers with Your own archer, while You can deliver free damage to other unit. If I can't I'ld better not attack at all. Recieving damage with archer is a road to hell latest next turn. PS: Drusus is 8 points in archery not 9 line Your commander. Pacorus is 7 in cavalry. Just 1 point lower. Difference is only 6 attack. Pacorus has Guerilla, Drusus 15% crit. They are twin brothers. I said I don't believe that anyone will use a ring instead of crossbow. Because without a crossbow the chance of a critical attack of Octavian is very slim. Besides, I used a ring with my Commander before I bought the crown. I was very disappointed, to be honest, and replaced it with Pompeii Gladius. "Inspire" is a definite advantage - 19-30 points of attack in every possible situation. Rings have relative advantage - 50% of probability to increase the attack of your general by 19-30 points in some situations. It is not the same, I believe. And, finally, if we will use the ring with Octavian - we can use with better success Gladius with Drusus increasing his attack by another 15 points. And not 50% of probability but healthy 15 points in every situation. We won't attack archers with our archers usually, that is true. But: 1. AI will attack our archers with its archers without any prejudices. 2. Sometimes we can't avoid it. For example, missions where we have to kill Caesar. The last one, for example. 3. If only one unit within range of attack is an archer general I would rather attack him, rather than skip the move. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Jul 30, 2019 19:36:46 GMT
Drusus vs Mihredates VI, who would win in a fight if they both started out with the same hp. I think we all know the answer to that. Drusus would probably have at least half of his hp intact. Plus he is so good at defending cities Oh, another good skill. How could I forget There is only one question. Why do we need to defend city with a general? ) Especially with Archer general. Have You ever tried. I am asking because I tried Bad experience. Couple of non-gen swordsman just knock Youur gen out for good. Such a waste. There are a few situations you absolutely have no choice but to. But you’re right. Drusus would be the best candidate out of all of them on a javlineer. |
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Post by andrei on Jul 30, 2019 19:44:24 GMT
stoic, You calculation and experience about the ring is strange. You have base chance to increase morale after attack + increase if legion/unit killed + 50% from ring. Plus You are attacked as well, means counter attack can trigger it. Ring is awesome item as morale is constant increased attack (and duration is good) besides increased crit. Just like Inspire. Crossbow is good, but it is item giving something when You crit only. Otherwise just occupies slot with no effect. Crossbow is only good for gens having both skill+talent. And generally.. crit is always nice to see, but whether You always need it?
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