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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 16, 2020 10:35:38 GMT
Hannibal Barca, I kept wondering who you were, after looking at your profile I know now haha TEDed talks rule 
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 16, 2020 11:09:41 GMT
^ few days ago you maintained that meritocracy had nothing to do with capitalism and Marxist theory oops, glad you agree with me now Meritocracy can produce results too. But those results are not rewards for everyone who believes in it Yours may be a personal success story, but for every one success come multiple other failures, though they put in the same (maybe even more) effort, and shares the similar passion and conviction in the core values of meritocracy. Most of the time, the poverty cycle is never broken, and society sees it as the fault of the individual instead (i.e. not worked hard enough). You seem to value hard work and self-determinism, and scorn those who try to take the easy way out. That's an opinion, but are all those that fail in life really lazy? Might there be any other situational or structural faults that causes these individuals to slip through the gaps? Sorry for the asynchrone statements. What I meant was capitalism is not materialism, but materialism is one of the effects of capitalism, but materialism itself is not always bad. To be materialistic is to desire more materials and goods (which humans always do from the stone age, middle ages, and finally the modern era). In capitalistic system, this desire can be fulfilled by making trades that contributes to the society and both traders are benefitted (otherwise, the society wouldn't buy his products if they think it is not beneficial for them). The concept of capitalism very is amazing. Humans tend to be materialistic (always want to earn as much materials and goods as posible). This materialistic tendency of human beings tend to make humans do bad things (like robbery) in order to get the materials we want. But capitalism turns this thing around, it makes us do good things for the society in order to get materials like selling products to people, teaching students in schools and colleges, managing businesses, producing products, and everything else that benefits the society. When people trade, it means both sides have agreed to the trade and both feel benefitted. I have a glass of milk and you have some money, I need your money and you need my glass of milk, thus we trade and it benefits both of us. It is that simple. Everything else that comes after is the product of this concept. I value my freedom of transaction (capitalism) as much as I value my freedom of speech and democracy. These easytech games are also products of capitalism. Did you pay for WC4? It gives you freedom to buy the IAP gens, but doesn't force you to. You can play WC4 for free, that's capitalism for youπ |
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 16, 2020 11:28:47 GMT
Your own video says: I am a capitalist - Edinburgh Of course, I acknowledge capitalism is not flawless, it has some side effects too. A complete neo-capitalism without control results in anarchy. But capitalism is generally the best of the best economic system we have right now (and would probably last for a very long time). And it is responsible for most of our economic development which results on the rise of our living quality. Our grandparent could only own a phone that was only capable of making phone calls, while now we can buy our modern android phones even if we were poor. Because the production cost extremely decreased when they are mass produced. And now even poor people can have modern phones, they are also benefitted from capitalism. Let's not hate capitalism for nothing is flawless. |
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Post by Hannibal Barca on Apr 16, 2020 11:35:48 GMT
Except for the fact that it has a big issue : given enough money, one can only get richer and richer to the point some individuals control about 40% of the GDP . Is this right ? Is it benefical ? How free would such a world be ?
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 16, 2020 12:10:03 GMT
Except for the fact that it has a big issue : given enough money, one can only get richer and richer to the point some individuals control about 40% of the GDP . Is this right ? Is it benefical ? How free would such a world be ? Very free.. if you don't need their products, don't buy their products and they will get poor automatically. It is that simpleπ However, some natural resources needs to be owned by the state like water for example. That's why, pure capitalism is not good either, the state must control it a bit. In fact, capitalism doesn't create inequality. Take North and South Korea for example. South Korea is a developed Asian state with a large space for the middle class. While North Korea is only owned by the elites in their government. Electricity is very rare there and no internet. You can play eastech games for free while the North Koreans can't even access the internet. Communist leaders are the super-rich those control the entire government while the others are super poor. Take North Korea, Venezuela, and Cuba for examples. In order for the poor to rise from poverty, the rich doesn't have to go down. They both can rise at the same time. Capitalism gives everyone opportunites to rise. We are now living in super-decent society that we take everydays' miracles for granted. Here is an interesting thought experiment: Would a medieval king want to switch place with an average American of our time? |
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Post by Hannibal Barca on Apr 16, 2020 12:25:36 GMT
Except for the fact that it has a big issue : given enough money, one can only get richer and richer to the point some individuals control about 40% of the GDP . Is this right ? Is it benefical ? How free would such a world be ? Very free.. if you don't need their products, don't buy their products and they will get poor automatically. It is that simpleπ However, some natural resources needs to be owned by the state like water for example. That's why, pure capitalism is not good either, the state must control it a bit.Β In fact, capitalism doesn't create inequality. Take North and South Korea for example. South Korea is a developed Asian state with a large space for the middle class. While North Korea is only owned by the elites in their government. Electricity is very rare there and no internet. You can play eastech games for free while the North Koreans can't even access the internet. Communist leaders are the super-rich those control the entire government while the others are super poor. Take North Korea, Venezuela, and Cuba for examples.Β In order for the poor to rise from poverty, the rich doesn't have to go down. They both can rise at the same time. Capitalism gives everyone opportunites to rise. We are now living in super-decent society that we take everydays' miracles for granted.Β Here is an interesting thought experiment: Would a medieval king want to switch place with an average American of our time? I see what you're saying but I think you tend to ignore this problem ... the capitalism isn't perfect and the solution you proposed isn't viable yet because it's like asking for a peacefull protest against an enemy so rich it won't matter. I am living in a country where the comunist regime was inforced by the Soviet Army, but I'm happy we are now living in capitalism. About your point : why compare communism and capitalism ? You really think the capitalist are angels ? Isn't the progres of our society what matters ? Then we should solve these problems ... |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 16, 2020 13:11:29 GMT
^ few days ago you maintained that meritocracy had nothing to do with capitalism and Marxist theory oops, glad you agree with me now Meritocracy can produce results too. But those results are not rewards for everyone who believes in it Yours may be a personal success story, but for every one success come multiple other failures, though they put in the same (maybe even more) effort, and shares the similar passion and conviction in the core values of meritocracy. Most of the time, the poverty cycle is never broken, and society sees it as the fault of the individual instead (i.e. not worked hard enough). You seem to value hard work and self-determinism, and scorn those who try to take the easy way out. That's an opinion, but are all those that fail in life really lazy? Might there be any other situational or structural faults that causes these individuals to slip through the gaps? Sorry for the asynchrone statements. What I meant was capitalism is not materialism, but materialism is one of the effects of capitalism, but materialism itself is not always bad. To be materialistic is to desire more materials and goods (which humans always do from the stone age, middle ages, and finally the modern era). In capitalistic system, this desire can be fulfilled by making trades that contributes to the society and both traders are benefitted (otherwise, the society wouldn't buy his products if they think it is not beneficial for them). The concept of capitalism very is amazing. Humans tend to be materialistic (always want to earn as much materials and goods as posible). This materialistic tendency of human beings tend to make humans do bad things (like robbery) in order to get the materials we want. But capitalism turns this thing around, it makes us do good things for the society in order to get materials like selling products to people, teaching students in schools and colleges, managing businesses, producing products, and everything else that benefits the society. When people trade, it means both sides have agreed to the trade and both feel benefitted. I have a glass of milk and you have some money, I need your money and you need my glass of milk, thus we trade and it benefits both of us. It is that simple. Everything else that comes after is the product of this concept. I value my freedom of transaction (capitalism) as much as I value my freedom of speech and democracy. These easytech games are also products of capitalism. Did you pay for WC4? It gives you freedom to buy the IAP gens, but doesn't force you to. You can play WC4 for free, that's capitalism for youπ materialism? I didnt mention that (at least in this thread) haha. Materialism's negative impacts is not restricted to robbery, an isolated extreme. Take the dehumanisation of our identities for example, and they inability to revel in our humanist core values. As for the last question, not at all, im part of the F2P gang hahaha |
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Post by Hannibal Barca on Apr 16, 2020 13:37:13 GMT
Your own video says: I am a capitalist - Edinburgh Of course, I acknowledge capitalism is not flawless, it has some side effects too. A complete neo-capitalism without control results in anarchy. But capitalism is generally the best of the best economic system we have right now (and would probably last for a very long time). And it is responsible for most of our economic development which results on the rise of our living quality. Our grandparent could only own a phone that was only capable of making phone calls, while now we can buy our modern android phones even if we were poor. Because the production cost extremely decreased when they are mass produced. And now even poor people can have modern phones, they are also benefitted from capitalism. Let's not hate capitalism for nothing is flawless. Ah, I regret not seeing this reply before responding to the topic. I apologize . My only point is that these problems are overlooked and nobody seams to do something about them before it gets too worse ... |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 16, 2020 13:42:52 GMT
Hannibal Barca, to respond to your point (change of audience for awhile, sry sun haha), Communism is impractical and problematic to the core, but deeper down it calls upon a review of the human condition, in relation to a pre-dominantly capitalist society
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 16, 2020 13:46:10 GMT
Sorry for the asynchrone statements. What I meant was capitalism is not materialism, but materialism is one of the effects of capitalism, but materialism itself is not always bad. To be materialistic is to desire more materials and goods (which humans always do from the stone age, middle ages, and finally the modern era). In capitalistic system, this desire can be fulfilled by making trades that contributes to the society and both traders are benefitted (otherwise, the society wouldn't buy his products if they think it is not beneficial for them). The concept of capitalism very is amazing. Humans tend to be materialistic (always want to earn as much materials and goods as posible). This materialistic tendency of human beings tend to make humans do bad things (like robbery) in order to get the materials we want. But capitalism turns this thing around, it makes us do good things for the society in order to get materials like selling products to people, teaching students in schools and colleges, managing businesses, producing products, and everything else that benefits the society. When people trade, it means both sides have agreed to the trade and both feel benefitted. I have a glass of milk and you have some money, I need your money and you need my glass of milk, thus we trade and it benefits both of us. It is that simple. Everything else that comes after is the product of this concept. I value my freedom of transaction (capitalism) as much as I value my freedom of speech and democracy. These easytech games are also products of capitalism. Did you pay for WC4? It gives you freedom to buy the IAP gens, but doesn't force you to. You can play WC4 for free, that's capitalism for youπ materialism? I didnt mention that (at least in this thread) haha. Materialism's negative impacts is not restricted to robbery, an isolated extreme. Take the dehumanisation of our identities for example, and they inability to revel in our humanist core values. As for the last question, not at all, im part of the F2P gang hahaha We are not dehumanized. That prediction of Karl's is not happening in our society. In fact, we're now in the time where humans are most valued in human history. If you were kidnapped and held hostage by another country, your country would very likely to negotiate with your kidnapper country and do a military operation to retrieve you back (even if you're neither rich or someone important in the government). Something like that has happened multiple times before. Well, it seems like we have reached some certain agreements. We have both agreed that capitalism has some flaws but still generally the best economic system available. I see no reason as to prolong our debate on this matter. Let's back to easytech games, shall we?π |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 16, 2020 14:00:41 GMT
materialism? I didnt mention that (at least in this thread) haha. Materialism's negative impacts is not restricted to robbery, an isolated extreme. Take the dehumanisation of our identities for example, and they inability to revel in our humanist core values. As for the last question, not at all, im part of the F2P gang hahaha We are not dehumanized. That prediction of Karl's is not happening in our society. In fact, we're now in the time where humans are most valued in human history. If you were kidnapped and held hostage by another country, your country would very likely to negotiate with your kidnapper country and do a military operation to retrieve you back (even if you're neither rich or someone important in the government). Something like that has happened multiple times before. Well, it seems like we have reached some certain agreements. We have both agreed that capitalism has some flaws but still generally the best economic system available. I see no reason as to prolong our debate on this matter. Let's back to easytech games, shall we?π mm, but thats the literal definition of dehumanization. Its yet another literary concept, but let's just focus on ET games now (commander where did your dedication for general analysis go over the past few days? ) |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 16, 2020 14:01:05 GMT
^^ the Way of the Strategist needs your presence
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 16, 2020 14:01:44 GMT
Your own video says: I am a capitalist - Edinburgh Of course, I acknowledge capitalism is not flawless, it has some side effects too. A complete neo-capitalism without control results in anarchy. But capitalism is generally the best of the best economic system we have right now (and would probably last for a very long time). And it is responsible for most of our economic development which results on the rise of our living quality. Our grandparent could only own a phone that was only capable of making phone calls, while now we can buy our modern android phones even if we were poor. Because the production cost extremely decreased when they are mass produced. And now even poor people can have modern phones, they are also benefitted from capitalism. Let's not hate capitalism for nothing is flawless. Ah, I regret not seeing this reply before responding to the topic. I apologize . My only point is that these problems are overlooked and nobody seams to do something about them before it gets too worse ... Well, we have agreed on capitalism as the best economic system available along with its flaws. But I want to say, we are living in a super lucky society that we tend to take every miracles for granted. We super lucky (as middle class) compared to our ancestors and even kings in the past. As for capitalism's dangers, I can assure you that it won't get so bad as long as your state still holds sovereignty and not badly corrupted. Believe me, we are so luckyπ I think we have reached an agreement on certain things and we can end our discussion and let's back to easytech games. π |
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 16, 2020 14:06:03 GMT
We are not dehumanized. That prediction of Karl's is not happening in our society. In fact, we're now in the time where humans are most valued in human history. If you were kidnapped and held hostage by another country, your country would very likely to negotiate with your kidnapper country and do a military operation to retrieve you back (even if you're neither rich or someone important in the government). Something like that has happened multiple times before. Well, it seems like we have reached some certain agreements. We have both agreed that capitalism has some flaws but still generally the best economic system available. I see no reason as to prolong our debate on this matter. Let's back to easytech games, shall we?π mm, but thats the literal definition of dehumanization. Its yet another literary concept, but let's just focus on ET games now (commander where did your dedication for general analysis go over the past few days? ) Whoops, I had became Himmler. No military, politics only.π |
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 16, 2020 15:08:18 GMT
Now, since you start to be more open, I don't see any reason as to not suspend this dialogue a bit. π Of course wealth can be inherited which means if you were rich because of your ancestors, your ancestors worked hard by serving the society's need for your future's sake. Isn't it what most parents do? And also, the wealth you inherit from your ancestors doesn't always determine your future. Take my great grandparent for example, it was said that he was very rich but was 'not good at handling money'. All his wealth were gone and he became very poor. And take my grandparent as the second example, he was dirt poor, he can barely eat enough rice for a day. But he worked hard with blood and sweat, after years of doing hard labors and started a small business, now he and our whole family iare prettyy successful (most have at least a PhD degree and nice paying jobs as well as family businesses and investments). That's the beauty of capitalism. My ancestors are example. Yes, making XTCs illegal would make criminals produce it and attain the profit, but making it legal would even make ordinary people produce it and get the profit while damaging the country's health. It is not a 'Muslim ban' that Trump implemented, it is ban for visitors and immigrants from conflict regions, not the religion (seriously, it's quiete racist to link ones country to a certain religion. You see, there are many Christian Arabs and Muslims from other countries as well. Nationality is NOT religion). Because allowing them to visit or immigrate is like playing a Russian roulette to the US citizens (there might be some terrorists, but not certain). If a muslim from Kazakhstan or Saudi Arabia, they will be granted permission, but rather if an Irani Christian wanted to he/she wouldn't be permitted. In fact, the largest world muslim population is not in a country in the middle east. You can read more about the so called 'Muslim ban' from Wikipedia. And if the US spends billions of dollars for its military, it means the US prioritizes its defense and doesn't want that budget to go to for anywhere else besides military. The military's capabilities shall not be given away for some unnecessary things. We should appreciate Trump for his actions. I think those are just misunderstandings made by the corrupt ones in Washington to spread fake news about Donald Trump. The corrupt politicians don't want America to be great, they just want to continue their corruptions and bribes. They make America divided by fake news. The majority of world media is controlled by those corrupt people. That's why we rarely hear any good news about Trump on TVs. But he was elected by the American people, not by those corrupt mainstream medias. Be more critical on anything and good luck! π It's just not the case that if you're good enough you will always become succesfull, there are No equal changes why do you think that the children of poor people most of the time stay poor? Because they're just inferior? No, if I have high educated parents my changes of being succesful increase because they will be able to help me with homework and be able to afford better education. Your grandparent had maybe a hard life, good discipline and luck. But his children already had much better changes because he was succesful. Fact is that if you're poor your children will likely also be poor. Thats Why XTC and weed should be a government monopoly. XTC and weed are accordingto the american addictiin centres less adicitive then alcohol or nicotine, so Why should that be legal but XTC or weed illegal. By making it a government monopoly you could make advertising for drugs illegal while the profit could be used to help people Who are addicted and want to stop using drugs. The USA would become a saver place because less people sho used drugs would have to go to prison and become real criminals in prison. there hasnt been a irani terrorist in the USA ever, Iranians are sjia muslims and 9/11 was a sunni muslims thing. In fact orginistations as boko haram, al Qaeda, Isis and the Taliban are all sunni muslim orginisations. And the relations between Iran and the USa were not So terrible as they're now becaus trump decided to shoot a iranian military leader. So saying it was for national security is bs there are many saudi-Arabian terrorist but trump didn't ban them. So its maybe not anti muslim but it is still racist. I don't believe that it really was about spending less money. he was elected by a minority of the voters, is that What you call a democraticly elected leader? i'm very critical only on populism Well, I have the answer of your statements in details, but I need to get back to ET gamesπ For example, the US election system (the electoral college) is not undemocratic. It was made by the founding fathers of the USA to prevent the majority to oppress the minority. If it weren't implemented in the US (a rather large and diverse state union), the presidents would only focus on the most populated states only as to ensure their political victory, and thus the less populated states would be abandoned. The founding fathers of the USA had thought about it and eventually came up with the electoral college formula. In order for both of us to get the ultimate truth, we need to hear the medias from both sides and the neutral ones too (like Wikipedia and other neutral journalisms too). I suggest you to read and watch news from "The Daily Wire" and the "Ben Shapiro Show" as well. Because I also watch the mainstream medias (like CNN) which 99.9% of the all time oppose any of Trump's decisions. We both agree that we need to have a decent society that doesn't discriminate or divide people by race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. Anyways, let's get back to our ET games! π |
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