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Post by Arya Stark on May 2, 2020 18:24:23 GMT
Assault art will trigger before defense art, though only defense art's effect will be felt if both trigger. i.e if Lannes is fighting Kutuzov, and both Lannes' assault art and Kutuzov's defense art trigger, Kutuzov will take 1 damage due to defense art, nullifying assault art. What is triggering fist won't change the result - it will be always only 1 DMG. If defense art triggers first, the maximum damage of this fight will be one - this is what assault art will give. Same result! Health, Evasion and Morale (and maybe Defense Art?) determine the maximum damage of your fight - this is what Assault Art gives you (very sad if it triggers at low health) Assault Art ALWAYS triggers first and if both it and defense art activate, Defense Art will ALWAYS negate it, thus resulting in the attack doing 1 damage |
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Post by Friedrich βFried Riceβ Paulus on May 2, 2020 18:49:58 GMT
In terms of best skills per unit
On infantry, it seems to be mass fire + leadership. Everything else is icing on the cake. Donβt believe me, when davout (heavy cav) and suvorov (triple grenadiers) faced off each other, davout dealt 89 damage while Suvorov dealt a pathetic 39. 39 damage at single morale down with 5 stars infantry and 4 infantry skills is pathetic to say the least.
Bagration faired no better against davout, dealing only 19 damage in return to Davoutβs 95. This is without s&l which is pretty funny. However, when davout and lannes faced off each other in the battle of austerlitz, lannes actually defeated davout badly with lannes suffering 36 while davout suffering 59.
On cavarly, strike + geography. Strike ensures that cavalry can siege cities effectively while geography makes sure cavalries high mobility is not wasted due to terrain. Surprise is decent. Leadership is decent. Assualt art and spy however, are great on cavarly imo.
On artillery, accurate + leadership seems to be the best combo. This make artillery into a hard hitting tank that will always deal consistent damage. Unlike moreau who gets surrounded and deals 15. As a city defense unit, such an artillery general would be very hard to kill. Afterwards, assualt art, geography, and spy are icing on the cake. Explosives is good too.
On navy, leadership, steersmann, and spy seem to be equally good as those are not skills replacable by items
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Post by ππ³π°π΅π΄π¬πΊ on May 2, 2020 20:04:47 GMT
In terms of best skills per unit On infantry, it seems to be mass fire + leadership. Everything else is icing on the cake. Donβt believe me, when davout (heavy cav) and suvorov (triple grenadiers) faced off each other, davout dealt 89 damage while Suvorov dealt a pathetic 39. 39 damage at single morale down with 5 stars infantry and 4 infantry skills is pathetic to say the least. Bagration faired no better against davout, dealing only 19 damage in return to Davoutβs 95. This is without s&l which is pretty funny. However, when davout and lannes faced off each other in the battle of austerlitz, lannes actually defeated davout badly with lannes suffering 36 while davout suffering 59. On cavarly, strike + geography. Strike ensures that cavalry can siege cities effectively while geography makes sure cavalries high mobility is not wasted due to terrain. Surprise is decent. Leadership is decent. Assualt art and spy however, are great on cavarly imo. On artillery, accurate + leadership seems to be the best combo. This make artillery into a hard hitting tank that will always deal consistent damage. Unlike moreau who gets surrounded and deals 15. As a city defense unit, such an artillery general would be very hard to kill. Afterwards, assualt art, geography, and spy are icing on the cake. Explosives is good too. On navy, leadership, steersmann, and spy seem to be equally good as those are not skills replacable by items Inf yes! Even burgle is not this important as the terrain doesn't affect infantry and tress an hills offer envasion only to cav and art. Artillery - Spy is a superskill for artillery - with Sophia I never attack a fort - the attack goes against a distant inf or cab - but on AI turns he counterattack takes the forts out like flies. Geography - for a starting general OK - but without the combination of engeneering (Isabella) you will be still limited to 4hex on heavy artillery. Assault art is imo a bit overrated - at S/L (if necessary) you can get the same hit (you just don't see it) and it doesn't add any damage - but nice to see - and to learn to understand your max damage under different circumstances. |
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Post by Arya Stark on May 3, 2020 2:41:08 GMT
In terms of best skills per unit On infantry, it seems to be mass fire + leadership. Everything else is icing on the cake. Donβt believe me, when davout (heavy cav) and suvorov (triple grenadiers) faced off each other, davout dealt 89 damage while Suvorov dealt a pathetic 39. 39 damage at single morale down with 5 stars infantry and 4 infantry skills is pathetic to say the least. Bagration faired no better against davout, dealing only 19 damage in return to Davoutβs 95. This is without s&l which is pretty funny. However, when davout and lannes faced off each other in the battle of austerlitz, lannes actually defeated davout badly with lannes suffering 36 while davout suffering 59. On cavarly, strike + geography. Strike ensures that cavalry can siege cities effectively while geography makes sure cavalries high mobility is not wasted due to terrain. Surprise is decent. Leadership is decent. Assualt art and spy however, are great on cavarly imo. On artillery, accurate + leadership seems to be the best combo. This make artillery into a hard hitting tank that will always deal consistent damage. Unlike moreau who gets surrounded and deals 15. As a city defense unit, such an artillery general would be very hard to kill. Afterwards, assualt art, geography, and spy are icing on the cake. Explosives is good too. On navy, leadership, steersmann, and spy seem to be equally good as those are not skills replacable by items Inf yes! Even burgle is not this important as the terrain doesn't affect infantry and tress an hills offer envasion only to cav and art. Artillery - Spy is a superskill for artillery - with Sophia I never attack a fort - the attack goes against a distant inf or cab - but on AI turns he counterattack takes the forts out like flies. Geography - for a starting general OK - but without the combination of engeneering (Isabella) you will be still limited to 4hex on heavy artillery. Assault art is imo a bit overrated - at S/L (if necessary) you can get the same hit (you just don't see it) and it doesn't add any damage - but nice to see - and to learn to understand your max damage under different circumstances. There are ways to get less damage against Infantry, namely trenches and bunkers, which can be everywhere. Bugle negates all those For artillery, theres always Oak wheels and Horse Artillery For players who don't use S/L (like myself) While Assault Art is typically a useful skill to have (such as Lannes or Murat or Poniatowski) but it isn't the most useful way to consistently do damage; Sulkow lacks Assault Art for instance but one of his other skills (strike) more than makes up for it imo |
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Post by Friedrich βFried Riceβ Paulus on May 3, 2020 11:48:55 GMT
In terms of best skills per unit On infantry, it seems to be mass fire + leadership. Everything else is icing on the cake. Donβt believe me, when davout (heavy cav) and suvorov (triple grenadiers) faced off each other, davout dealt 89 damage while Suvorov dealt a pathetic 39. 39 damage at single morale down with 5 stars infantry and 4 infantry skills is pathetic to say the least. Bagration faired no better against davout, dealing only 19 damage in return to Davoutβs 95. This is without s&l which is pretty funny. However, when davout and lannes faced off each other in the battle of austerlitz, lannes actually defeated davout badly with lannes suffering 36 while davout suffering 59. On cavarly, strike + geography. Strike ensures that cavalry can siege cities effectively while geography makes sure cavalries high mobility is not wasted due to terrain. Surprise is decent. Leadership is decent. Assualt art and spy however, are great on cavarly imo. On artillery, accurate + leadership seems to be the best combo. This make artillery into a hard hitting tank that will always deal consistent damage. Unlike moreau who gets surrounded and deals 15. As a city defense unit, such an artillery general would be very hard to kill. Afterwards, assualt art, geography, and spy are icing on the cake. Explosives is good too. On navy, leadership, steersmann, and spy seem to be equally good as those are not skills replacable by items Inf yes! Even burgle is not this important as the terrain doesn't affect infantry and tress an hills offer envasion only to cav and art. Artillery - Spy is a superskill for artillery - with Sophia I never attack a fort - the attack goes against a distant inf or cab - but on AI turns he counterattack takes the forts out like flies. Geography - for a starting general OK - but without the combination of engeneering (Isabella) you will be still limited to 4hex on heavy artillery. Assault art is imo a bit overrated - at S/L (if necessary) you can get the same hit (you just don't see it) and it doesn't add any damage - but nice to see - and to learn to understand your max damage under different circumstances. I am not an s&l player yet I still feel assualt art is a good skill. It triggers pretty often and it can definitely help a lot in many situations. Its a good bonus to an already good general imo (not Yorck or Bennigsen). When fighting other generals is when the skill really shines imo. The way I see it is its the perfect 4th skill on all units, after the other 3 are good of course. Spy is still good on artillery imo especially on siege artillery or rockets. While it is a bit overkill, forts can otherwise be a huge pain to take out. 4 hex movement is imo pretty fast on artillery. After 4 hexes, you should start investing into the damage of the artillery unit more than the movement. Even 3 hexes with geography is way above average in movement. Especially considering if your other units are having trouble catching up to the artillery unit, your artillery unit be attacked relentlessly by cavarly units. Yes, I also disregarded the fact that terrain invasion for infantry units does not exist. And its actually a huge pain on other units. So on infantry units, you can consider siege to be bugle as the only other evasion is trenches which can be easily avoided. |
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Post by ππ³π°π΅π΄π¬πΊ on May 3, 2020 16:15:17 GMT
Inf yes! Even burgle is not this important as the terrain doesn't affect infantry and tress an hills offer envasion only to cav and art. Artillery - Spy is a superskill for artillery - with Sophia I never attack a fort - the attack goes against a distant inf or cab - but on AI turns he counterattack takes the forts out like flies. Geography - for a starting general OK - but without the combination of engeneering (Isabella) you will be still limited to 4hex on heavy artillery. Assault art is imo a bit overrated - at S/L (if necessary) you can get the same hit (you just don't see it) and it doesn't add any damage - but nice to see - and to learn to understand your max damage under different circumstances. I am not an s&l player yet I still feel assualt art is a good skill. It triggers pretty often and it can definitely help a lot in many situations. Its a good bonus to an already good general imo (not Yorck or Bennigsen). When fighting other generals is when the skill really shines imo. The way I see it is its the perfect 4th skill on all units, after the other 3 are good of course. Spy is still good on artillery imo especially on siege artillery or rockets. While it is a bit overkill, forts can otherwise be a huge pain to take out. 4 hex movement is imo pretty fast on artillery. After 4 hexes, you should start investing into the damage of the artillery unit more than the movement. Even 3 hexes with geography is way above average in movement. Especially considering if your other units are having trouble catching up to the artillery unit, your artillery unit be attacked relentlessly by cavarly units. Yes, I also disregarded the fact that terrain invasion for infantry units does not exist. And its actually a huge pain on other units. So on infantry units, you can consider siege to be bugle as the only other evasion is trenches which can be easily avoided. I think so too - just by this discussion I realized that there is no terrain evasion for infantry - as you said a big pain for other units. I like Assult Art, but surprise or explosives will add dammage, so overall imo there more value. (Stat avg: AA β 3%, S/E >5%) One more word to geography as skill (especially artillery) Finally you convinced me, that geography will be a fantastic skill for a beginning: I just restart and the war horse is the first item you can buy at start!If you start with one ore more IAP - this will be for 99% your first item - starting the game with 350π it is directly for sale at the 5th starting mission! So, if you invest in IAP!: geography - (back to my old thought) is not this important - its a mid/end-game skill as you need much more items to use it - and for granite you will have the war horse before. |
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Post by ππ³π°π΅π΄π¬πΊ on May 3, 2020 16:40:21 GMT
Inf yes! Even burgle is not this important as the terrain doesn't affect infantry and tress an hills offer envasion only to cav and art. Artillery - Spy is a superskill for artillery - with Sophia I never attack a fort - the attack goes against a distant inf or cab - but on AI turns he counterattack takes the forts out like flies. Geography - for a starting general OK - but without the combination of engeneering (Isabella) you will be still limited to 4hex on heavy artillery. Assault art is imo a bit overrated - at S/L (if necessary) you can get the same hit (you just don't see it) and it doesn't add any damage - but nice to see - and to learn to understand your max damage under different circumstances. There are ways to get less damage against Infantry, namely trenches and bunkers, which can be everywhere. Bugle negates all those For artillery, theres always Oak wheels and Horse ArtilleryΒ For players who don't use S/L (like myself) While Assault Art is typically a useful skill to have (such as Lannes or Murat or Poniatowski) but it isn't the most useful way to consistently do damage; Sulkow lacks Assault Art for instance but one of his other skills (strike) more than makes up for it imo Yepp - my saying: Assault Art is a nice skill without doubt, but a skill that adds damage (not mobility!) is overall more valuable. |
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Post by Arya Stark on May 4, 2020 15:56:09 GMT
There are ways to get less damage against Infantry, namely trenches and bunkers, which can be everywhere. Bugle negates all those For artillery, theres always Oak wheels and Horse Artillery For players who don't use S/L (like myself) While Assault Art is typically a useful skill to have (such as Lannes or Murat or Poniatowski) but it isn't the most useful way to consistently do damage; Sulkow lacks Assault Art for instance but one of his other skills (strike) more than makes up for it imo Yepp - my saying: Assault Art is a nice skill without doubt, but a skill that adds damage (not mobility!) is overall more valuable. Its damage isn't consistent without S/L as Assault Art doesn't trigger that often. Strike/Accurate/Bugle on the other hand always are activated |
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Post by littlecorporal on May 29, 2020 3:44:18 GMT
This is such an awesome thread! Just a huge help in winning battles. Most importantly it gives you a good idea about which units to use to attack the enemy, besides the obvious siege cannons and coastal cannons.
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Post by littlecorporal on May 29, 2020 3:47:36 GMT
For example, since no unit gives more damage vs. artillery, line infantry/ militia are the way to go because they are so much cheaper than the other units.
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Post by littlecorporal on Jun 5, 2020 0:56:39 GMT
Erich von Manstein , I also have a question regarding the very end of the formula. (1-evasion percentage)*extra/evaded damage from skills. If extra or evaded damage is zero, the whole formula is screwed up. Are they set at a minimum of zero? How are they figured out? Can I have a cookie? I don't know! Also, correct me if I am wrong, but the formula could also can be written as (unnecessary but prettifying (yes, that's a word) parentheses added) O = ((p*h) + (m*f*h) - (m*f) + g*5*(gh) + a - d -(2*l))*r*((1-evasion)*ex/ev) Where p = panel output for attacker h = attacker health coefficient (first of attacker, then of defender) m = morale (first of attacker, then of defender) f = formation coefficient g = generals stars gh = general health coefficient a = boost items for attacker d = boost items for defender l = enemy level (chevrons, if star then l = 5) ex = extra damage ev = evaded damage If there is one, put it in the calculation, if it is not, see it as 1.(will add this) Also I'm changing panel to base, so use "b" please. The defender health coefficient doesn't matter. Am I to understand that general stars Γ 5 act like a bonus attack item? A 2 star general will do +10 damage while a 0 star general with a +4 and a +6 attack item will also do +10 Also, do training Chevron Γ 2 work as a defense item, where each chevron works as a +2 item. A 3 chevron general has the same defensive bonus as a 0 chevron general with a +4 and a +2 item. |
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Post by littlecorporal on Jun 5, 2020 1:09:51 GMT
Also, for defensive fire, do the same rules apply?
Is the health coefficient adjusted for the effects of the attack?
Are there any benefits for attacking from a defensive position? Does the attacker get the evasion bonus on the return fire?
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Post by ππ³π°π΅π΄π¬πΊ on Jun 6, 2020 11:39:13 GMT
If there is one, put it in the calculation, if it is not, see it as 1.(will add this) Also I'm changing panel to base, so use "b" please. The defender health coefficient doesn't matter. Am I to understand that general stars Γ 5 act like a bonus attack item? A 2 star general will do +10 damage while a 0 star general with a +4 and a +6 attack item will also do +10 Also, do training Chevron Γ 2 work as a defense item, where each chevron works as a +2 item. A 3 chevron general has the same defensive bonus as a 0 chevron general with a +4 and a +2 item. , you are right, this is probably the most useful thread in the forum. The formula explains the game-mechanics and allows to calculate your maximum damage. On the other hand I can't relay too much on it. For me it fails for some detailed battle analysis. As you point out - a (attack items) and b (defending items) add like generalβ
*5 Imo they need additional multipliers: The formular can't explain why a general eventually deals less dammage than he gains from attack items. (no evasion) --- Edit: This part is wrong and explained later in this thread --- My biggest concern about the formula is the;
(morale-factor * formation) term.
So the formation will only have an effect on high/low morale - with normal morale (morale-factor = 0) the formation doesn't have any influence???
If this is correct, building double or triple formation will be practical complete useless.
+1 damage only on higher morale as the only dammage benefit from double formation - I hope so not - maybe Erich von Manstein can help. For understanding, getting an overview and calculating the output potential the formula is perfect. And you quoted the best presentation - thank you! r = restraint factorFor the counterattack: I believe it works like an independent second attack from defenders against attackers, so you will profit from the evasion of your field. If I can choose, I attack from the field with the highest evasion for the unit I will fight against. This is my personal believing - Β»believingΒ« means: Β»not knowingΒ« - I never tested or proved this. |
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Post by Darth Vader on Jun 6, 2020 16:31:43 GMT
Also, for defensive fire, do the same rules apply? Is the health coefficient adjusted for the effects of the attack? Are there any benefits for attacking from a defensive position? Does the attacker get the evasion bonus on the return fire? I believe firing from a trench to a enemy gives cover. But in ww1 that is impossible so I believe it's has less defense or none when attacking. Fire does percentage damage to anything in its blame. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Jun 7, 2020 0:32:50 GMT
Am I to understand that general stars Γ 5 act like a bonus attack item? A 2 star general will do +10 damage while a 0 star general with a +4 and a +6 attack item will also do +10 Also, do training Chevron Γ 2 work as a defense item, where each chevron works as a +2 item. A 3 chevron general has the same defensive bonus as a 0 chevron general with a +4 and a +2 item. , you are right, this is probably the most useful thread in the forum. The formula explains the game-mechanics and allows to calculate your maximum damage. On the other hand I can't relay too much on it. For me it fails for some detailed battle analysis. As you point out - a (attack items) and b (defending items) add like generalβ
*5 Imo they need additional multipliers: The formular can't explain why a general eventually deals less dammage than he gains from attack items. (no evasion) My biggest concern about the formula is the;
(morale-factor * formation) term.
So the formation will only have an effect on high/low morale - with normal morale (morale-factor = 0) the formation doesn't have any influence???
If this is correct, building double or triple formation will be practical complete useless.
+1 damage only on higher morale as the only dammage benefit from double formation - I hope so not - maybe Erich von Manstein can help. For understanding, getting an overview and calculating the output potential the formula is perfect. And you quoted the best presentation - thank you! r = restraint factorFor the counterattack: I believe it works like an independent second attack from defenders against attackers, so you will profit from the evasion of your field. If I can choose, I attack from the field with the highest evasion for the unit I will fight against. This is my personal believing - Β»believingΒ« means: Β»not knowingΒ« - I never tested or proved this.I think you probably forgot to read the description of the "base damage." It has stated that the damage a unit can deal is affected by its formation. Taking the French line infantry as an example, let's say formation is the only variable here, a single formation LI can deal up to y * 5 = 35 damage, while a triple formation one can deal 7 * 7 = 47. As for the items, which map was it? Which general were you using? Does the unit you are attacking have any chevrons? Too many factors can influence the result. The rest is true. |
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