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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Sept 17, 2021 14:35:47 GMT
I dare say that Hoth on an HT can outclass Guderian on an MT. There's just so much of a discrepancy between the two units. Rommel doesn't die quickly if you play slow and steady. He dies easily, yes, but so does Guderian with his useless Blitzkrieg and an Anti-Armor (which, I suppose, is fine on an HT, not in a med, though.) 1. Hoth dies quickly (Same for Rommel) 2. Guderian has Blitzkrieg, which means he takes 50% less damage. 3. Why isn't Anti-Armor not good on an MT? Armored units have the most health and it's probably the most useful offensive skill because any bonus against armored units is great. 4. Rommel needs to be replenished from time to time in order to survive, at least more than Guderian. _________________________________________________________________________________________ For me, the best is Guderian, then Rommel, Rokossovsky and Vatutin and Montgomery. Patton does not deserve to be on this list. Yes, but even they last longer on an HT than Guderian on an MT. NO. Blitz only reduces counter damage. The vast majority of damage is on the enemy turn. Attacking tanks with range one units without a for sure damage block is suicide, which is why the Grenadier is the only AT unit Yamashita can go on. Not really, if Rommel is on an HT and Guderian on an MT. Patton doesn't. And Guderian is still better than any of the Allied gens, but seriously, Rommel is way better and he is way overpriced. |
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Post by John Marston on Sept 17, 2021 16:03:44 GMT
1. Hoth dies quickly (Same for Rommel) 2. Guderian has Blitzkrieg, which means he takes 50% less damage. 3. Why isn't Anti-Armor not good on an MT? Armored units have the most health and it's probably the most useful offensive skill because any bonus against armored units is great. 4. Rommel needs to be replenished from time to time in order to survive, at least more than Guderian. _________________________________________________________________________________________ For me, the best is Guderian, then Rommel, Rokossovsky and Vatutin and Montgomery. Patton does not deserve to be on this list. Yes, but even they last longer on an HT than Guderian on an MT. NO. Blitz only reduces counter damage. The vast majority of damage is on the enemy turn. Attacking tanks with range one units without a for sure damage block is suicide, which is why the Grenadier is the only AT unit Yamashita can go on. Not really, if Rommel is on an HT and Guderian on an MT. Patton doesn't. And Guderian is still better than any of the Allied gens, but seriously, Rommel is way better and he is way overpriced. Uh...who is overpriced here? And also, if your tanker dies early in the game, well...good luck on that. Rommel needs a lot more maintainence as compared to Guderian. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Sept 17, 2021 16:11:45 GMT
Yes, but even they last longer on an HT than Guderian on an MT. NO. Blitz only reduces counter damage. The vast majority of damage is on the enemy turn. Attacking tanks with range one units without a for sure damage block is suicide, which is why the Grenadier is the only AT unit Yamashita can go on. Not really, if Rommel is on an HT and Guderian on an MT. Patton doesn't. And Guderian is still better than any of the Allied gens, but seriously, Rommel is way better and he is way overpriced. Uh...who is overpriced here? And also, if your tanker dies early in the game, well...good luck on that. Rommel needs a lot more maintainence as compared to Guderian. Both. Guderian needs very slightly less maintenance on an HT, and nobody should go on an MT. Rommel has more power, Guderian has slightly more survivability on MT. No MT gen can be much better than a decent HT gen. |
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Post by John Marston on Sept 17, 2021 16:13:37 GMT
Uh...who is overpriced here? And also, if your tanker dies early in the game, well...good luck on that. Rommel needs a lot more maintainence as compared to Guderian. Both. Guderian needs very slightly less maintenance on an HT, and nobody should go on an MT. Rommel has more power, Guderian has slightly more survivability on MT. No MT gen can be much better than a decent HT gen. "Better" by what means? 1 vs 1? |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Sept 17, 2021 16:14:41 GMT
Both. Guderian needs very slightly less maintenance on an HT, and nobody should go on an MT. Rommel has more power, Guderian has slightly more survivability on MT. No MT gen can be much better than a decent HT gen. "Better" by what means? 1 vs 1? More useful in a campaign. |
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Post by John Marston on Sept 17, 2021 16:17:47 GMT
"Better" by what means? 1 vs 1? More useful in a campaign. What about the non HT missions? Also, having a proper HT general is important for mobility and power. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Sept 17, 2021 16:50:02 GMT
More useful in a campaign. What about the non HT missions? Also, having a proper HT general is important for mobility and power. Agree on 2nd statement, bt in every Mission past 41 NA, you get an HT. |
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Post by stevke on Sept 17, 2021 16:54:33 GMT
Guderian has better survivability, MT are more avallible, less expensive. He is also tank killer.
Rommel has superior damage on HT (literally just killed a 4stack general in 1 round w him on maus) and has panzer leader which is great for HTs.
Both have their advantages and you will likely need both of them.
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Post by idunnowhattocallthis on Sept 17, 2021 17:02:20 GMT
Guderian has better survivability, MT are more avallible, less expensive. He is also tank killer. Rommel has superior damage on HT (literally just killed a 4stack general in 1 round w him on maus) and has panzer leader which is great for HTs. Both have their advantages and you will likely need both of them. Precisely! |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Sept 17, 2021 17:26:37 GMT
Guderian has better survivability, MT are more avallible, less expensive. He is also tank killer. Rommel has superior damage on HT (literally just killed a 4stack general in 1 round w him on maus) and has panzer leader which is great for HTs. Both have their advantages and you will likely need both of them. I don't think any gens are necessary. None of them are irreplaceable. I completed the game with Just Rommel as a tanker outside the Freebies and Rundstedt. |
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Sept 17, 2021 22:20:52 GMT
If Rommel on an HT cannot beat Guderian on an MT, of course Hoth cannot beat Guderian. "Useless" Blitzkrieg? It's one of the best skills in the entire game. Guderian also dishes out a lot of damage, so A-A is effective on tanks, and mobility can also help Guderian a lot. On an HT, it would most likely be a different story, as Guderian is pretty out of his game. But just the fact that on the worse unit he beats Rommel should be a signal that Hoth cannot beat him. Is "slow and steady" the right call? Rommel can live long, sure. Whether he lives longer than Guderian, that is which he fails at. Panzers are a spearhead, the spearhead won't be very effective when at the speed of a snail. Sure, it can kill stuff, but not fast enough. Rommel HT smashes Guderian like a bug, so I am saying that even Hoth could do it. It is terrible on HT, given that you can work at 2 range, and anything that can hit him at that range (only light artillery) can better be taken care of by Artillery and Infantry. He would dish out much more on HT, where AA is much better. MT can only do fog of war suicide scout, bad survivability, one range, high cost, lower damage than much cheaper range two Artillery, bad SF, I don't see what the have going for them over anything else. Yes he is fast, but if you go faster than your other troops, you are doomed to die. If you want to attack tanks with MT, that is sure to kill you. If Guderian tries to Attack Rommel, Rommel will have about as much HP, slightly less damage against armor, 100% chance to avoid return fire, and PL, against Guderian's 50% chance to avoid return Fire in a 1 v 1 battle, but in campaigns, HT last much longer, do more damage than MT. Yes a slow approach is better, because it leads to not overextending yourself. Anything can be a spearhead, except for H Arty, I personally use Armored cars, then med tanks, then Infantry, then Light Artillery, then HT, then Heavy Artillery. Slow and steady does not mean go slow, it means don't play hyperaggressively. Hoth is horrible. Guderian on a MT, a worse unit than HT, can beat Rommel on an HT. He usually survives longer than my Rommel. Being fast lets you get to the objective faster and you could just not go fast. Rommel can never attack Guderian on a campaign and vice versa. If ranks were measured by 1v1s, than aura would be useless and Mountbatten could be better than Nimitz. Tanks are the best spearheads, ACs, inf, and arty are lacking in damage and/or speed. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Sept 17, 2021 22:40:11 GMT
Rommel HT smashes Guderian like a bug, so I am saying that even Hoth could do it. It is terrible on HT, given that you can work at 2 range, and anything that can hit him at that range (only light artillery) can better be taken care of by Artillery and Infantry. He would dish out much more on HT, where AA is much better. MT can only do fog of war suicide scout, bad survivability, one range, high cost, lower damage than much cheaper range two Artillery, bad SF, I don't see what the have going for them over anything else. Yes he is fast, but if you go faster than your other troops, you are doomed to die. If you want to attack tanks with MT, that is sure to kill you. If Guderian tries to Attack Rommel, Rommel will have about as much HP, slightly less damage against armor, 100% chance to avoid return fire, and PL, against Guderian's 50% chance to avoid return Fire in a 1 v 1 battle, but in campaigns, HT last much longer, do more damage than MT. Yes a slow approach is better, because it leads to not overextending yourself. Anything can be a spearhead, except for H Arty, I personally use Armored cars, then med tanks, then Infantry, then Light Artillery, then HT, then Heavy Artillery. Slow and steady does not mean go slow, it means don't play hyperaggressively. Hoth is horrible. Guderian on a MT, a worse unit than HT, can beat Rommel on an HT. He usually survives longer than my Rommel. Being fast lets you get to the objective faster and you could just not go fast. Rommel can never attack Guderian on a campaign and vice versa. If ranks were measured by 1v1s, than aura would be useless and Mountbatten could be better than Nimitz. Tanks are the best spearheads, ACs, inf, and arty are lacking in damage and/or speed. Hoth is terrible, but the massive discrepancy in unit ability is so much that it makes them equal. Guderian cannot beat Rommel in a 1 v 1 when he is on a med tank (I thought that this is what you said he could do), nor can he clear a ton of enemies in a region in one turn like Rommel can. I understand that 1 v 1s don't exist. Being fast I didn't say was bad, I said that it isn't useful. A slow approach leads to both increased damage (via support from other units) as well as increased survivability for the same reason. I think that the ability of ACs is their machine guns, level two vision, and cheap cost, which is why I put them at the front. An MT is certainly better, but also almost double the cost and less damage to Infantry, the main other unit. The deficiencies it has is not being able to soak as much damage due to lower defense. Next is med tanks, which although useful in clearing out enemy tanks and Heavy Artillery, still are super expensive, so I generally don't repair them. M thoughts on them are that they are useful, but too weak to e worth putting a top-tier general on. Next is infantry, because it can hit whatever wasn't killed by the other units with its incredible versatility. HT go around massacring infantry with light artillery support. Lastly, the H Artillery take out the Heavy tanks. I try to be careful in this doctrine, so I generally fix my generals, heavy artillery, light artillery if I am running low on support by them, Infantry in needed positions (e.g. defending a city, ones that will be paratrooping somewhere), and sometimes ACs for scouting and general use. MT and HT without generals are simply too expensive for what they are worth. They need not be fast to be a spearhead, all they need to be is at the front. |
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Sept 18, 2021 0:12:59 GMT
Hoth is horrible. Guderian on a MT, a worse unit than HT, can beat Rommel on an HT. He usually survives longer than my Rommel. Being fast lets you get to the objective faster and you could just not go fast. Rommel can never attack Guderian on a campaign and vice versa. If ranks were measured by 1v1s, than aura would be useless and Mountbatten could be better than Nimitz. Tanks are the best spearheads, ACs, inf, and arty are lacking in damage and/or speed. Hoth is terrible, but the massive discrepancy in unit ability is so much that it makes them equal. Guderian cannot beat Rommel in a 1 v 1 when he is on a med tank (I thought that this is what you said he could do), nor can he clear a ton of enemies in a region in one turn like Rommel can. I understand that 1 v 1s don't exist. Being fast I didn't say was bad, I said that it isn't useful. A slow approach leads to both increased damage (via support from other units) as well as increased survivability for the same reason. I think that the ability of ACs is their machine guns, level two vision, and cheap cost, which is why I put them at the front. An MT is certainly better, but also almost double the cost and less damage to Infantry, the main other unit. The deficiencies it has is not being able to soak as much damage due to lower defense. Next is med tanks, which although useful in clearing out enemy tanks and Heavy Artillery, still are super expensive, so I generally don't repair them. M thoughts on them are that they are useful, but too weak to e worth putting a top-tier general on. Next is infantry, because it can hit whatever wasn't killed by the other units with its incredible versatility. HT go around massacring infantry with light artillery support. Lastly, the H Artillery take out the Heavy tanks. I try to be careful in this doctrine, so I generally fix my generals, heavy artillery, light artillery if I am running low on support by them, Infantry in needed positions (e.g. defending a city, ones that will be paratrooping somewhere), and sometimes ACs for scouting and general use. MT and HT without generals are simply too expensive for what they are worth. They need not be fast to be a spearhead, all they need to be is at the front. I said Guderian on an MT (for me) does more damage than Rommel on an HT. Just because you don't have 2 range doesn't mean you can't effectively clear out units. A quick approach minimizes damage to softer units and can take objectives in a campaign quicker and more effectively. If you wait for Rundstedt to catch up to Rommel, you will be letting the enemy muster up some units and lose time. With generals, AC seems bad, because in a spearhead, you will be putting your best foot forward (generals). MTs being expensive (and HTs for that matter) can be nullified with Blitzkrieg giving more time on the clock and 2 range for some survivability. Light arty is slow and space, and you are better off with using H arty, which is slow. Infantry is good, but are horribly fragile and will crumble very easily in campaigns. I doubt a spearhead that shatters itself is very useful. Infantry is better for sweeping unprepared units, and if you use a base infantry, that support is negligible. You will rarely use tanks without generals, they are not worth the cost (unless you are rich in an AG), and ACs ae better, yes, but since you will be using the tanks with generals that make the cost of fixng up the units worth it, ACs are overshadowed. |
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Grigory Kulik
Captain
"What the hell do we need rocket artillery for? The main thing is the horse-drawn gun."
Posts: 53
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Post by Grigory Kulik on Sept 18, 2021 0:56:29 GMT
Guderian on a medium tank with a panther is better than rommel on a heavy tank with a maus. If they 1 v 1ed each other guderian would win every time.
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Post by stevke on Sept 18, 2021 11:50:56 GMT
Your guys favorite special force to use on your panzer generals? I personally use Panther on Guderian and Maus on Rommel
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