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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Dec 10, 2021 17:22:02 GMT
Quite Frankly, Japan was already stripped of their natural resources. The taking of Manchuria really wasn't (as far as I know) a major factor in the surrender of Japan. On the other hand, the firebombing of all of its major cities probably was, as well as the slog called China. From what I remember, Hirohito said thet the major reason for ending the war was the firebombing. I personally don't think that the atom bombs were needed, but I would, in Truman's place, still order it to be dropped, merely because I don't know what the Japanese were thinking, as well as to scare the Commies. If I would have been Truman I would have dropped the bombs as well, but if I would've been myself as the POTUS, I certainly would've not wanted to massmurder over 100,000 people. What do expect in a war? You are fighting against hundreds of thousands, even millions of people, and you refuse to kill civilians who are overtly hostile to you, while their god is refusing to beleive publicly that they can lose. Against Germany, bombing was wrong, there were many people who didn't care for the German regime anyway, the same for Britain, but in Japan, the people are doing everything they can in order to kill every last one of you, and it is not like conscription meant that you were doing anything other than killing civilians anyway. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Dec 10, 2021 17:23:11 GMT
Quite Frankly, Japan was already stripped of their natural resources. The taking of Manchuria really wasn't (as far as I know) a major factor in the surrender of Japan. On the other hand, the firebombing of all of its major cities probably was, as well as the slog called China. From what I remember, Hirohito said thet the major reason for ending the war was the firebombing. I personally don't think that the atom bombs were needed, but I would, in Truman's place, still order it to be dropped, merely because I don't know what the Japanese were thinking, as well as to scare the Commies. Wow, we have a potential war criminal on this forum What do you mean? |
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Post by alexandrvasilevski on Dec 10, 2021 17:24:30 GMT
Wow, we have a potential war criminal on this forum What do you mean? Well, you just justified mass murder of civilians. |
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Post by alexandrvasilevski on Dec 10, 2021 17:32:39 GMT
If I would have been Truman I would have dropped the bombs as well, but if I would've been myself as the POTUS, I certainly would've not wanted to massmurder over 100,000 people. What do expect in a war? You are fighting against hundreds of thousands, even millions of people, and you refuse to kill civilians who are overtly hostile to you, while their god is refusing to beleive publicly that they can lose. Against Germany, bombing was wrong, there were many people who didn't care for the German regime anyway, the same for Britain, but in Japan, the people are doing everything they can in order to kill every last one of you, and it is not like conscription meant that you were doing anything other than killing civilians anyway. Oh, this western chauvinism! They’re not fighting with “noble European rules of war”, so we can kill them as well as their unable grandparents and children. Fascinating! Can you also justify anti-partisan warfare of Nazis in USSR and Japanese in China? |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Dec 10, 2021 17:52:08 GMT
What do expect in a war? You are fighting against hundreds of thousands, even millions of people, and you refuse to kill civilians who are overtly hostile to you, while their god is refusing to beleive publicly that they can lose. Against Germany, bombing was wrong, there were many people who didn't care for the German regime anyway, the same for Britain, but in Japan, the people are doing everything they can in order to kill every last one of you, and it is not like conscription meant that you were doing anything other than killing civilians anyway. Oh, this western chauvinism! They’re not fighting with “noble European rules of war”, so we can kill them as well as their unable grandparents and children. Fascinating! Can you also justify anti-partisan warfare of Nazis in USSR and Japanese in China? Well, I do think that it is a nation's prerogative to kill partisans (although not slaughter a town as a deterrent) that are actively fighting against a nation (i.e. if someone tries to blow up a bridge in the US while we are at a full-blown war with the EU or something). I certainly think that if someone denies the military and civilian conventions of the time than total war is required. One cannot bring a knife to a gunfight and hope to win. Civilian warfare should only be used as a deterrent. For example, the Russians in WWII absolutely destroyed, pillaged, and murdered people in the way to Germany to show the world that one cannot do atrocities and expect to get off scot-free. Merely retributionist. Also, I fail to understand what you mean by "western chauvinism". |
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Post by alexandrvasilevski on Dec 10, 2021 18:31:02 GMT
Oh, this western chauvinism! They’re not fighting with “noble European rules of war”, so we can kill them as well as their unable grandparents and children. Fascinating! Can you also justify anti-partisan warfare of Nazis in USSR and Japanese in China? Well, I do think that it is a nation's prerogative to kill partisans (although not slaughter a town as a deterrent) that are actively fighting against a nation (i.e. if someone tries to blow up a bridge in the US while we are at a full-blown war with the EU or something). I certainly think that if someone denies the military and civilian conventions of the time than total war is required. One cannot bring a knife to a gunfight and hope to win. Civilian warfare should only be used as a deterrent. For example, the Russians in WWII absolutely destroyed, pillaged, and murdered people in the way to Germany to show the world that one cannot do atrocities and expect to get off scot-free. Merely retributionist. Also, I fail to understand what you mean by "western chauvinism". Under western chauvinism I mean that you call the bombing of Germany wrong, while justifying the bombing of Japan. Japanese weren’t an horde of fanatics, fighting alongside with their Great and Evil Emperor until the end, but normal people. Just like in Germany there were lots of people who were against the regime. And I still don’t understand how old people and new-born children could fight against the Allies. |
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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Dec 10, 2021 18:32:12 GMT
If I would have been Truman I would have dropped the bombs as well, but if I would've been myself as the POTUS, I certainly would've not wanted to massmurder over 100,000 people. What do expect in a war? You are fighting against hundreds of thousands, even millions of people, and you refuse to kill civilians who are overtly hostile to you, while their god is refusing to beleive publicly that they can lose. Against Germany, bombing was wrong, there were many people who didn't care for the German regime anyway, the same for Britain, but in Japan, the people are doing everything they can in order to kill every last one of you, and it is not like conscription meant that you were doing anything other than killing civilians anyway. What do you except an isolated country to do against the richest super power in the world, no matter how hostile the civillians are? If you justify killig civillians because they're hostile to you, next you can just as well justify the Holocaust and Nanjing massacre. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Dec 10, 2021 18:42:35 GMT
Well, I do think that it is a nation's prerogative to kill partisans (although not slaughter a town as a deterrent) that are actively fighting against a nation (i.e. if someone tries to blow up a bridge in the US while we are at a full-blown war with the EU or something). I certainly think that if someone denies the military and civilian conventions of the time than total war is required. One cannot bring a knife to a gunfight and hope to win. Civilian warfare should only be used as a deterrent. For example, the Russians in WWII absolutely destroyed, pillaged, and murdered people in the way to Germany to show the world that one cannot do atrocities and expect to get off scot-free. Merely retributionist. Also, I fail to understand what you mean by "western chauvinism". Under western chauvinism I mean that you call the bombing of Germany wrong, while justifying the bombing of Japan. Japanese weren’t an horde of fanatics, fighting alongside with their Great and Evil Emperor until the end, but normal people. Just like in Germany there were lots of people who were against the regime. And I still don’t understand how old people and new-born children could fight against the Allies. All right, I can see your point. I try to be able to justify war to the fullest degree possible, but that is naught. War is one of the worst things in the world. But if killing civilians is a way to make it last shorter, than I am all for it. Both for other civilians, the country at large, and the enemy country. The problem is that most Japanese were fanatics. That is simply the fact of the matter. As for you, Voroshilov. I give you the same argument our illustrious Marshal of the Soviet Union gets. |
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Post by alexandrvasilevski on Dec 10, 2021 19:30:06 GMT
Under western chauvinism I mean that you call the bombing of Germany wrong, while justifying the bombing of Japan. Japanese weren’t an horde of fanatics, fighting alongside with their Great and Evil Emperor until the end, but normal people. Just like in Germany there were lots of people who were against the regime. And I still don’t understand how old people and new-born children could fight against the Allies. All right, I can see your point. I try to be able to justify war to the fullest degree possible, but that is naught. War is one of the worst things in the world. But if killing civilians is a way to make it last shorter, than I am all for it. Both for other civilians, the country at large, and the enemy country. The problem is that most Japanese were fanatics. That is simply the fact of the matter. As for you, Voroshilov. I give you the same argument our illustrious Marshal of the Soviet Union gets. I still don’t accept the statement “most Japanese were fanatics”. It’s downgrading a whole nation, making the lives of it less worth than of other nations. It’s the same thing, which Hitler proclaimed when invading USSR: they are no people, they are Bolshevist fanatics, it’s a lesser evil to kill them. My point is: there are no bad nations, Japanese deserved to be treated with all paragraphs of international war law, just like all the other people. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2021 19:33:30 GMT
imperial japan is known for their cruelty to korean and chinese people. but especially korea throuout the history since around 1200 to end of ww2
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Post by alexandrvasilevski on Dec 10, 2021 19:37:37 GMT
imperial japan is known for their cruelty to korean and chinese people. but especially korea throuout the history since around 1200 to end of ww2 It doesn’t matter at all. When you go to law court, judge doesn’t adjudge you (sorry for tautology) for crimes of your great-grandfather. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2021 19:42:04 GMT
imperial japan is known for their cruelty to korean and chinese people. but especially korea throuout the history since around 1200 to end of ww2 It doesn’t matter at all. When you go to law court, judge doesn’t adjudge you (sorry for tautology) for crimes of your great-grandfather. i dont meant current japanese. they are peaceful and wonderful. i mean the old feudal ones. and 5here were a special group of thieves who constantly raided korean coat |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2021 19:43:06 GMT
It doesn’t matter at all. When you go to law court, judge doesn’t adjudge you (sorry for tautology) for crimes of your great-grandfather. i dont meant current japanese. they are peaceful and wonderful. i mean the old feudal ones. and there were a special group of thieves who constantly raided korean coast and the big invasions of the regular armies |
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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Dec 10, 2021 19:46:46 GMT
imperial japan is known for their cruelty to korean and chinese people. but especially korea throuout the history since around 1200 to end of ww2 It doesn’t matter at all. When you go to law court, judge doesn’t adjudge you (sorry for tautology) for crimes of your great-grandfather. Yes, this and your previous post were nailed on. I'm not a supporter of capital punishment ir avenging anyways and I would never mass murder people just because they have the same nationality as some mass murderers or grandoarents who were mass murderers. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2021 19:52:50 GMT
nobody wants war today. we learned from history
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