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Post by SolidLight on Feb 9, 2024 15:05:59 GMT
Horoshu Cavs are actually fairly accessible despite only being spawnable out of a single city. Kiyosu is in a very central position on the map so a lot of factions can use it. And it’s cheaper than other units while being arguably even stronger than the Hatamoto. And there’s tons of awesome cavalrymen in this game even as an F2P player. So definetly get that one. DoP is something that I think can be skipped. Very true, although in conquest the level of your units doesn't matter if you're spawning it out of a castle or a troop camp since the levels are all fixed: i.e. your unit levels do not affect how powerful units in conquest are spawned. The only caveat to this blanket rule is tavern generals, who spawn with your units and therefore takes the level of your unit.
I still would recommend Horoshu cav to someone starting out since you get Maeda Keiji guaranteed for free and he performs very well on it, while it may take longer to get a good archer/teppo general and definitely a lot longer for war gear. For a lot of the campaign I used Honganji Kennyo as my main war gear general since I had no one better, despite him being more fitted towards infantry with a slight hybridization towards war gear.
It does in challenge conquests. |
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Post by run4glory on Feb 9, 2024 15:07:11 GMT
@airi Momoi your unit level does transfer to conquest, at least in challenge mode! Moreover, the DoP does do a lot of work in my conquests. I usually spawn it on turn 2 - after spawning Masamune and quickly completing 4 quests that give knowledge, I have around 200 knowledge to spend and little food. Perfect time for DoP and to blitz my first enemy. Sure, you need both Sorin and Ujiyasu. But if you do and have at least the two mounted units and Elite Samurai, I actually think DoP is very much worth considering. It speeds up conquests by quite a bit. Maybe I am in luxury of having so much Ban-kin (but you will too if you stick to the game for a while) but I think eventually one can pretty easily buy all units (ok maybe dont buy Carrack ^^)
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Post by Airi Momoi on Feb 9, 2024 15:14:58 GMT
It seems all units are two levels above what you have in challenge. I stand corrected, I assumed when I saw the levels were higher than my own that it was fixed or based on campaign progress.
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Post by Airi Momoi on Feb 9, 2024 15:20:18 GMT
@airi Momoi your unit level does transfer to conquest, at least in challenge mode! Moreover, the DoP does do a lot of work in my conquests. I usually spawn it on turn 2 - after spawning Masamune and quickly completing 4 quests that give knowledge, I have around 200 knowledge to spend and little food. Perfect time for DoP and to blitz my first enemy. Sure, you need both Sorin and Ujiyasu. But if you do and have at least the two mounted units and Elite Samurai, I actually think DoP is very much worth considering. It speeds up conquests by quite a bit. Maybe I am in luxury of having so much Ban-kin (but you will too if you stick to the game for a while) but I think eventually one can pretty easily buy all units (ok maybe dont buy Carrack ^^) Yeah, when you have a lot of ban-kin you absolutely can, although you can make the argument it's more thrifty to buy more magatama to work towards 6 starring more generals. I have all the units except carrack and now I'm sitting pretty around 4000 ban-kin. If you have IAPs (namely Nobunaga and Shingen) your ban-kin woes practically disappear as 125 daily ban-kin plus the 70 from daily missions (140 right now) is a lot of ban-kin. The game is incredibly generous on all of its resources. |
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Post by Theron of Acragas on Feb 9, 2024 15:48:26 GMT
I'm mostly in agreement with this, but on second thought I'm wondering how much do we need DoP. It is the best war gear unit in the game, hands down, but when can you use it? You can use it in campaign by spawning it in one of your precious spawn slots but there isn't any factory that builds these things. What about conquest? Well, the first unit is free but I'm sure many people would prefer to place down their mounted teppo unit instead of their war gear, which DoP has a knowledge point cost of 114. That's awfully expensive! The alternative forces you to instead spend 84 knowledge points to spawn that mounted teppo unit that of course you want in your conquest. Still very steep. And even if we could find a factory that spawns DoP in conquest, the point's moot since all spawned units (non-tavern) use a set level there independent of your unit level. So that just leaves Tenkabito, where DoP has the majority of its use. While there's a lot of sieging in that mode, good generals can act as a substitute for DoP for cracking cities: I find that Hideyoshi despite not having any sieging skills still cracks cities very effectively. And all except the expeditions are one and done, with the latter being more focused on pitched battles. And, there's really only two war gear generals in the game: Hojo Ujiyasu and Otomo Sorin. (No, Mori Terumoto doesn't count.) If you don't have either of those, there's no real reason to even get DoP. Of course vis à vis doiharakenji that last point doesn't matter since he has Ujiyasu. I just don't know if there's really a battlefield for them. I maintain that it's worth spawning Sorin and probably Hojo in conquest, despite the cost. Sure, you have other generals that are pretty good at sieging, but only a few. And even they knock off 300+, Hojo and Sorin easily do double that. With a level 5 castle, that's a big difference. While the other guys one-shot an empty branch castle, war gear can do it even with a garrison, clearing the way for others to finish the job. Sorin's active is also great, it lets him knock out both the outer wall and inner castle, or occasionally capture a castle on his own (though you don't really want to use him that way). They're also occasionally useful in expeditions, though generally Hojo with mortar will be up to the task. |
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Post by doiharakenji on Feb 10, 2024 11:22:33 GMT
A lot of conflicting opinions here. But I chose to buy DoP (I have strong Hojo + I can farm his fragments from the Library) and Elite Samurai for Hideyoshi, as kanue , suggested. Horoshu cav is unlikely a good investment for me since I have so many good cav units already (Akazonae Heavy cav, Sanada Akazonae, Elite cav). |
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Post by stoic on Feb 10, 2024 12:59:35 GMT
DoP is a very powerful unit. It was actually my second IAP unit and I haven't any regrets since then. The only problem with it is that Hojo is better suited than Sorin for commanding it at the start of the game. I am personally very unlucky with Sorin's fragments, so I decided to exchange their units. Though eventually Sorin will be a real monster on DoP.
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Post by Kurt von Schleicher on Feb 10, 2024 15:50:35 GMT
DoP is a very powerful unit. It was actually my second IAP unit and I haven't any regrets since then. The only problem with it is that Hojo is better suited than Sorin for commanding it at the start of the game. I am personally very unlucky with Sorin's fragments, so I decided to exchange their units. Though eventually Sorin will be a real monster on DoP. Hojo is better than Sorin but requires item which lock in the paid conquest battle pass lv.35 to make him better full artillery adapt, +1 lv. firepower coverage. |
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Post by Airi Momoi on Feb 10, 2024 20:32:45 GMT
I maintain that it's worth spawning Sorin and probably Hojo in conquest, despite the cost. Sure, you have other generals that are pretty good at sieging, but only a few. And even they knock off 300+, Hojo and Sorin easily do double that. With a level 5 castle, that's a big difference. While the other guys one-shot an empty branch castle, war gear can do it even with a garrison, clearing the way for others to finish the job. Sorin's active is also great, it lets him knock out both the outer wall and inner castle, or occasionally capture a castle on his own (though you don't really want to use him that way). They're also occasionally useful in expeditions, though generally Hojo with mortar will be up to the task. I will argue that if you're going to be sieging, you can use 16-pounder cannon to do the same job as DoP. We're not really planning on using war gear to fight land units excluding the occasional unit on a wall or a castle. 16-pounder cannon, mortar, and DoP all get the 80% bonus to attacking city fortifications at level 10 which makes those three the best sieging units in the game so far, and we're not going to use our war gear that much to fight units.
But, I'm kinda arguing in bad faith since I personally have DoP and use it (hey, if you have it, use it!) A lot of conflicting opinions here. But I chose to buy DoP (I have strong Hojo + I can farm his fragments from the Library) and Elite Samurai for Hideyoshi, as kanue , suggested. Horoshu cav is unlikely a good investment for me since I have so many good cav units already (Akazonae Heavy cav, Sanada Akazonae, Elite cav). Good choice! Honestly the only correct answer is buy what you'll use, if you won't use Horoshu cav, don't get it. If you think you'll use carrack a lot, then carrack is a good choice. (Although it's hard to see how you'll use carrack a lot) GCS is like EW7 in that it's very forgiving of mistakes, it's hard to get yourself into a situation where you should restart thanks to a poor purchase unless you really messed up like spend all your initial ban-kin on hime items.
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Post by Theron of Acragas on Feb 11, 2024 12:58:33 GMT
I maintain that it's worth spawning Sorin and probably Hojo in conquest, despite the cost. Sure, you have other generals that are pretty good at sieging, but only a few. And even they knock off 300+, Hojo and Sorin easily do double that. With a level 5 castle, that's a big difference. While the other guys one-shot an empty branch castle, war gear can do it even with a garrison, clearing the way for others to finish the job. Sorin's active is also great, it lets him knock out both the outer wall and inner castle, or occasionally capture a castle on his own (though you don't really want to use him that way). They're also occasionally useful in expeditions, though generally Hojo with mortar will be up to the task. I will argue that if you're going to be sieging, you can use 16-pounder cannon to do the same job as DoP. We're not really planning on using war gear to fight land units excluding the occasional unit on a wall or a castle. 16-pounder cannon, mortar, and DoP all get the 80% bonus to attacking city fortifications at level 10 which makes those three the best sieging units in the game so far, and we're not going to use our war gear that much to fight units.
I admit I haven't used the 16-pounder and don't really know how well it stacks up as a siege gun. But I think you're wrong to dismiss their use against land units. It's not their primary purpose, but if you spawn war gear as your second or third general, you'll have to use them for combat at the start. And then later, you often use them against units while moving between cities, they can be used to pick off archers, and most importantly, they're effective against castle garrisons (which *is* their primary purpose). For all of those uses DoP's splash damage can be very good. |
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Post by kyokusanagi on Feb 11, 2024 22:15:10 GMT
it is much cheaper to use any good pirate on conquests, also on princesess misionss or else.
Mine is shooting for 500+ from his ship and he can move afterwards,
Big Cannons yes, but expensive, so after.
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Post by kanue on Feb 13, 2024 9:15:28 GMT
It is fascinating to see variety of opinions on the use of cannon in extension to the value of DoP.
In my case, I usually spawn Otomo Sorin on DoP as my first free tavern general since his knowledge cost is quite hefty. Also use him to crack wall of big castles early game when I have only double stack units with some starting generals, who probably cannot crack the wall by themselves before AI spawn a dozen of unit to defend it. I also use cannon extensively for hitting archers and boats.
On the main question, I repeat the wisdom already mentioned, "buy what you'll use." I myself use elite samurai much more often than any other units so it is more crucial to me than amazing unit like mounted teppo.
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Post by stoic on Feb 13, 2024 13:58:34 GMT
I have purchased the ship as well  . My point is not that it is the best Naval unit (it is actually not), but that you can do in GCS practically everything you want. So, I did it simply because I can afford it   Do daily tasks, play Expeditions, don't neglect conquests and you should be just as fine... Inevitably... |
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Post by Airi Momoi on Feb 13, 2024 17:28:56 GMT
You know, I've been thinking about what kanue said about the bonus just for filling all four slots and I'm thinking that maybe Spider Teapot isn't so bad after all. Yes, it gives terrible buffs but it helps fill a slot on the more rare treasure slot, the hardest slot to fill. I wouldn't upgrade it or give it to our main team, but when you've got your best generals fully equipped it might not be bad to give to a secondary general to use for the middle stages of conquest. I still wouldn't buy it though since Matsunaga Hisahide might try to take me down with him. He's that kind of guy.
On a completely different note, honestly what stoic said is right, this isn't old early game WC3 where medals are a precious resource that can never return to you. You'll always have a source of ban-kin through daily missions and ads and if you bought certain IAPs through them too. But Theron of Acragas makes a good point too about still being thrifty about your ban-kin since it's a pain to farm. Really I guess it's just about what do you value most out of the units, items, and magatama, and what your current circumstances are. If I had lots of good cavalry generals but have not yet unlocked Akazonae cav and Sanada Akazonae, Horoshu cav would probably be on the top of my list to yet. If I had started with Ujiyasu or Sorin, I'd probably want DoP. If I got lucky enough to get Masamune or Shigehide quickly, I would want to get mounted teppo first. And if I got everyone's favorite strategist Mori Motonari, mounted archer would be the way to go. Since excluding the starter gens of Hideyoshi and Keiji and all the IAPs your generals are based on luck, your best units to buy are also based on luck. I guess what I'm trying to say is when you're starting out and don't want to farm to get everything, consider your circumstances and the generals the game gave you. See what your main team of generals excels at and focus on those types of units before the others. Since we get Hideyoshi and Keiji for free, often Elite Samurai and Horoshu are the best first unit to get (I believe I got Horoshu first), but again if you pull Date Masamune you may want to give him his unit first. Of course we're all here to give our own opinions on best moves and stuff but you don't really need to optimize this game to have fun with it since currently there's nothing out there that requires the best of the best |
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Post by SolidLight on Feb 13, 2024 18:49:18 GMT
You know, I've been thinking about what kanue said about the bonus just for filling all four slots and I'm thinking that maybe Spider Teapot isn't so bad after all. Yes, it gives terrible buffs but it helps fill a slot on the more rare treasure slot, the hardest slot to fill. I wouldn't upgrade it or give it to our main team, but when you've got your best generals fully equipped it might not be bad to give to a secondary general to use for the middle stages of conquest. I still wouldn't buy it though since Matsunaga Hisahide might try to take me down with him. He's that kind of guy.
On a completely different note, honestly what stoic said is right, this isn't old early game WC3 where medals are a precious resource that can never return to you. You'll always have a source of ban-kin through daily missions and ads and if you bought certain IAPs through them too. But Theron of Acragas makes a good point too about still being thrifty about your ban-kin since it's a pain to farm. Really I guess it's just about what do you value most out of the units, items, and magatama, and what your current circumstances are. If I had lots of good cavalry generals but have not yet unlocked Akazonae cav and Sanada Akazonae, Horoshu cav would probably be on the top of my list to yet. If I had started with Ujiyasu or Sorin, I'd probably want DoP. If I got lucky enough to get Masamune or Shigehide quickly, I would want to get mounted teppo first. And if I got everyone's favorite strategist Mori Motonari, mounted archer would be the way to go. Since excluding the starter gens of Hideyoshi and Keiji and all the IAPs your generals are based on luck, your best units to buy are also based on luck. I guess what I'm trying to say is when you're starting out and don't want to farm to get everything, consider your circumstances and the generals the game gave you. See what your main team of generals excels at and focus on those types of units before the others. Since we get Hideyoshi and Keiji for free, often Elite Samurai and Horoshu are the best first unit to get (I believe I got Horoshu first), but again if you pull Date Masamune you may want to give him his unit first. Of course we're all here to give our own opinions on best moves and stuff but you don't really need to optimize this game to have fun with it since currently there's nothing out there that requires the best of the best This is mostly it. It's probably why we have wildly differing opinions on what to get. I got the Rain Covered Teppo at the start of the game since I had tons of teppo. I delayed the DoP by a lot because I didn't have any worthwhile artillery for ages. And if there's a SINGLE thing in this game that you should rush to/optimize for, then that's to clear out Tenkabito and be able to beat Kimotsuki on a consistent basis. It's even better if you can beat it with little effort. But other than that, you can take it pretty easy. The WC series is so massively complicated to grind in comparision. Although I'd say you don't actually have to have the best guy for the job on the mounted ranged units. Those are so awesome that you should pick them up as long as you have any competent archer/teppo. Very probable in the short term. |
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. My point is not that it is the best Naval unit (it is actually not), but that you can do in GCS practically everything you want. So, I did it simply because I can afford it 
