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Post by Randy Orton on Feb 14, 2024 13:22:13 GMT
In my humble opinion, one of the most underrated generals in the game. What y'all think of him?
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Post by stoic on Feb 14, 2024 13:46:45 GMT
I have a feeling that Infantry as a class seriously underperform in this game. And we usually compare Infantry generals not with other Infantry generals but rather with generals of other classes. And here, let's face it, Kuroda Kanbei, hardly is above average. Yet, within his class he's very good, actually. But it is all about being a big fish in a small pond. A very tragic character, btw. He was forced by Toyotomi Hideyoshi to renegade his faith but remained loyal to his master, nonetheless.
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Post by Airi Momoi on Feb 14, 2024 14:20:11 GMT
I love them all, but I think stoic is right in that infantry isn't the most impressive out of all the units. Out of the infantry generals, Kanbee seems to do pretty well. His skill deals damage similar to Hanbei's and Motonari's skills which can always be useful, Plain Fighting is always welcome as long as you're a little conscious about terrain, Formation Mastery is good since we'll most likely only use Kanbee on infantry although in a pinch he can perform okay on teppo and archer. His command of ships is good for naval battles and he works actually pretty well as an admiral due to his skill dealing double damage there. And of course I think I made myself clear on what I think about Tactical Expert (I love it), but that only comes at rank 6 which I'm pretty sure no one has a rank 6 Kanbee. At least his less impressive skill Master Builder is far down the list, but arguably that skill is best on infantry who really should be the only unit defending a city. He has a good bond with Hanbei who can serve as a good archer. I didn't get either until late though so both my Kanbee and Hanbei are pretty weak. It's definitely hard to compare generals of other classes though and since most generals are determined by the gacha we're not too concerned over best generals, especially since GCS generally gives you an easier time comparatively to other EasyTech games. Thus, I think as long as their background is purple or gold they perform really well and even some blue generals can do okay (as I've mentioned before I used Ikeda Sen for my teppo general for most of the campaign) - so if you have Kanbee and like anything about him whether it be his skills, historical role, or just plain appearance, absolutely use him. I know there's a whole tier list and everything but they each perform good enough that often the one you use is the one you get first or just the one you like.
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Post by kyokusanagi on Feb 14, 2024 20:59:31 GMT
On the goid vessel and with Roll Tide effect hes is my top 5 in conquest, not too expensive, but cool, as Guan Yu
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Post by Boss Tweed on Feb 15, 2024 4:39:07 GMT
In my humble opinion, one of the most underrated generals in the game. What y'all think of him? I like him for his double hit (even if its only 60%) and his rolling splash active. That is it though: he is not very impressive outside of his active and his last skill. I personally prefer shimazu yoshihiro and hashiba hideyoshi over this guy.
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Post by run4glory on Feb 15, 2024 9:28:25 GMT
Imho lets not be too quick to dismiss infantry. Most of the time, the generals performance depends on their base unit, and the best base unit, the Sword Master, isnt out yet. For most players, it all depends on whether Sword Master is F2P or not. From my experiences in conquest and looking at the base stats, sword master will be the hardest hitter of all units. (Apart from maybe Teppo, but thats a kinda hard comparison to make bc defense ignore + damage instability, and teppo doesnt even counterattack). Moreover, Nobutsuna and Yoshihiro do pack some serious punch, their base valor is similar to Keijis, which according to my knowledge is absolute top tier for F2P gens. Personally, the game has blessed me with many Nobutsuna fragments so I have him 5*, with only one lvl 9 weapon to boost his valor he is easily 200 valor. His active Ukifune is already my „hardest guaranteed hit“ agains a single enemy bc of the guaranteed crit, and he simply hit the guy behind the target as well When Sword Master comes out, he might become the best F2P infantry general in the game, ofc Easytech wont make him able to compete with Musashi I can think of only two scenarios where the answer would be unclear: 1. Sword Master is IAP or 2. Toyomoti Hideyoshi somehow gets a crazily OP active But enough praising of Nobutsuna, since this thread is about Infantry and Kanbee: Sword Master is probably going to be the hardest hitter, but slightly slower mobility than mounted units and no multi-attacks. Well, Kanbee comes in for the latter. As for mobility, yep, thats a slight downside, but I would rather think it as an upside for all mounted units
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Post by Sun liren on Feb 24, 2024 3:09:42 GMT
he and Nobutsuna are the only two infantry general in the purple tier that i consider decent and I use them all the time in conquest but speaking of infantry underperformance...I will say that rather blame the entire class of infantry, the quality of the general are really the true reason why are they underperform Just FYI he and yoshihiro are the only Two general in the purple tier that have formation mastery at LV3 which really explains why many of the Infantry Gen can't really deal much damage except for a specific sword master And even with these two they also have one skills that really sucks, with kanbee is master builder and with yoshihiro is steadfast defense So I guess the dev really hate infantry this time round and makes the infantry general so weak in comparison the other class gen (One more note...sakai tadatsugu in the blue tier also have Formation mastery at lv3 and his skill set and damage really outperform many purple tier gen)
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Post by Kurt von Schleicher on Feb 24, 2024 5:37:31 GMT
he and Nobutsuna are the only two infantry general in the purple tier that i consider decent and I use them all the time in conquest but speaking of infantry underperformance...I will say that rather blame the entire class of infantry, the quality of the general are really the true reason why are they underperform Just FYI he and yoshihiro are the only Two general in the purple tier that have formation mastery at LV3 which really explains why many of the Infantry Gen can't really deal much damage except for a specific sword master And even with these two they also have one skills that really sucks, with kanbee is master builder and with yoshihiro is steadfast defense So I guess the dev really hate infantry this time round and makes the infantry general so weak in comparison the other class gen (One more note...sakai tadatsugu in the blue tier also have Formation mastery at lv3 and his skill set and damage really outperform many purple tier gen) Combo with Hanbei it will be even better.
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Post by run4glory on Feb 24, 2024 10:45:04 GMT
One thing that is evident from these discussions is that.. We evaluate unit classes solely by how much damage they can deal, or how much offensive capability they have, because.. it is the only thing that matters Given the sheer abundance of Combat Rations and the importance of game modes like Conquest (which really is all about how fast you can kill your opponents) the importance of survivability is simply zero. I have like 500-600 of both combat rations and I even sold many for gold in the past, 20-30 of each coming in per successful challenge conquest. Literally all survivability my gen need is to not die in one round to burst damage, because in the next, he will be fully healed. Think of the old WC4 days (the first Easytech game I played), where every HP was golden and you would actually pay hundreds of medals for a 7% HP increase, this is a totally different story now. Thats the reason why Infantry is perceived so low in a game like this. They are supposed to be cheap and tanky but those are properties that you dont really need. Well, except for the cheap part, I think thats the reason we do still use them in conquest.
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Post by Theron of Acragas on Feb 24, 2024 11:43:36 GMT
One thing that is evident from these discussions is that.. We evaluate unit classes solely by how much damage they can deal, or how much offensive capability they have, because.. it is the only thing that matters Given the sheer abundance of Combat Rations and the importance of game modes like Conquest (which really is all about how fast you can kill your opponents) the importance of survivability is simply zero. I have like 500-600 of both combat rations and I even sold many for gold in the past, 20-30 of each coming in per successful challenge conquest. Literally all survivability my gen need is to not die in one round to burst damage, because in the next, he will be fully healed. Think of the old WC4 days (the first Easytech game I played), where every HP was golden and you would actually pay hundreds of medals for a 7% HP increase, this is a totally different story now. Thats the reason why Infantry is perceived so low in a game like this. They are supposed to be cheap and tanky but those are properties that you dont really need. Well, except for the cheap part, I think thats the reason we do still use them in conquest. I personally play without using rations - it kind of feels like a cheat and initially I didn't know how abundant they'd end up being. Only used a couple for the assistance with choreography because I couldn't be bothered to figure it out. You kind of present the demise of infantry as a result of rations, but honestly your analysis pretty much holds true even without them. You may occasionally need to leave a general for a turn or two in a city with a temple to heal up, but unless you're going for records that's no big deal.
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Post by SolidLight on Feb 24, 2024 13:22:14 GMT
I don't agree with the whole idea that infantry is bad offensively. I mean every single one of the units except two of them are, but those two are the only units you deploy your guys on in challenge conquests and they're everywhere.
Now regarding Kanbei, I don't think he really gets really really good until you get him to rank 6, which takes a huge amount of time. His two damage abilities are offset by him having a really poor valor base, a unit spec that isn't either Elite Samurai or Swordmaster (I've tested it, it does add damage), and an active that's significantly less effective than the other two big combat infantrymen (Nobutsuna, Yoshihiro). He's usually my 4th infantry deploy at this point. He might get to #2 or #3 later on depending on whether or not I can blitz the enemy with Hideyoshi.
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Post by Onadroig on Feb 27, 2024 2:11:43 GMT
The master swordsmen are not yet available, so I use Nobutsuna little, his unit in conquest reaches maximum level 6 when I am finishing, so I don't compare them much. Regarding Kanbee, he is a good general, I have him equipped with Hisatsuki Kurige (mount) and Shinkage Ryu. With that, it reaches 5 adaptability in infantry plus 10% damage. Even so, Hideyoshi is still my number 1, the movement capacity he gives is the most useful in conquests (due to long distances) and many times the AI focuses everything on one front, making it ideal for taking all the unprotected cities. I think 4 stars is fine, it's fun to explore all the generals and their options.
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Post by Airi Momoi on Feb 27, 2024 4:20:13 GMT
The master swordsmen are not yet available, so I use Nobutsuna little, his unit in conquest reaches maximum level 6 when I am finishing, so I don't compare them much. Regarding Kanbee, he is a good general, I have him equipped with Hisatsuki Kurige (mount) and Shinkage Ryu. With that, it reaches 5 adaptability in infantry plus 10% damage. Even so, Hideyoshi is still my number 1, the movement capacity he gives is the most useful in conquests (due to long distances) and many times the AI focuses everything on one front, making it ideal for taking all the unprotected cities. I think 4 stars is fine, it's fun to explore all the generals and their options. Nobutsuna still does pretty good damage even not on sword master, although for sure Hideyoshi is the best infantry general just because of his marching expert which is easy to get to level 5, making him go long distances. Even better is that his horse when maxed doesn't get blocked by enemy units so he just zooms past everyone and cracks cities. It doesn't even matter that the rest of his skill set can be pretty mediocre, his speed and good stats alone makes him the go-to for infantry. Kanbee I feel like works best during naval missions (Makijima, Kizugawaguchi, etc.) but he's absolutely competent even in the driest part of Japan. And like you said, it's fun to love them all and use them all. Personally I have a liking towards Mochizuki Chiyo (Project Sekai Honami anyone?) and Akechi Mitsuhide, even though comparatively they're some of the weaker ones in their class. When equipped decently they handle themselves quite well.
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Post by stoic on Feb 27, 2024 4:51:37 GMT
The master swordsmen are not yet available, so I use Nobutsuna little, his unit in conquest reaches maximum level 6 when I am finishing, so I don't compare them much. Regarding Kanbee, he is a good general, I have him equipped with Hisatsuki Kurige (mount) and Shinkage Ryu. With that, it reaches 5 adaptability in infantry plus 10% damage. Even so, Hideyoshi is still my number 1, the movement capacity he gives is the most useful in conquests (due to long distances) and many times the AI focuses everything on one front, making it ideal for taking all the unprotected cities. I think 4 stars is fine, it's fun to explore all the generals and their options. Nobutsuna still does pretty good damage even not on sword master, although for sure Hideyoshi is the best infantry general just because of his marching expert which is easy to get to level 5, making him go long distances. Even better is that his horse when maxed doesn't get blocked by enemy units so he just zooms past everyone and cracks cities. It doesn't even matter that the rest of his skill set can be pretty mediocre, his speed and good stats alone makes him the go-to for infantry. Kanbee I feel like works best during naval missions (Makijima, Kizugawaguchi, etc.) but he's absolutely competent even in the driest part of Japan. And like you said, it's fun to love them all and use them all. Personally I have a liking towards Mochizuki Chiyo (Project Sekai Honami anyone?) and Akechi Mitsuhide, even though comparatively they're some of the weaker ones in their class. When equipped decently they handle themselves quite well. I am not sure that speed fully compensate the overall mediocrity of current skins of Hideyoshi... First of all, conquests are only one part of the game. It is nice to deploy a fast general in conquests but it is of limited value elsewhere. Then, we have other fast generals (though some time is needed to unlock these skills) with better abilities than Hideyoshi has. Hojo and Kikkawa to mention (for example, Hojo on DoP covering long distances or Kikkawa Motoharu on Horse Archers). I would argue that a f2p version of Hideyoshi is seriously underwhelming in comparison to his p2w version. You can't complete his set, you don't have his bond ( well, technically we have one that is f2p, but I can't recall when I deployed Nene last time ). Hopefully his new skin will change it. Otherwise I will keep him in the vault most of the time. Not to mention that cavalry is faster in general and the fastest unit Elite cavalry is available almost everywhere (and its abilities are well suited for fast moving). And Nagitana cavalry (the second fastest unit) is available literally everywhere and sometimes it is also possible to get an early access to Horoshu cavalry. And we have plenty of good Cavalry generals including blue tier like Takeda Katsuyori or Obu Toramasa. Truth be told, I prefer to deploy my Obu Toramasa to Hideyoshi on every single day Highly doubtful that Hideyoshi will ever reach such high Valor stats as some blue tier cavalry generals can.
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Post by Theron of Acragas on Feb 27, 2024 5:51:53 GMT
Personally I have a liking towards Mochizuki Chiyo (Project Sekai Honami anyone?) and Akechi Mitsuhide, even though comparatively they're some of the weaker ones in their class. When equipped decently they handle themselves quite well. I could be wrong, of course, but I suspect that the intersection between Project Sekai and EasyTech is a rather small fraction of the Venn diagram 😁 (I wear odd corners of Venn diagrams as a badge of honor)
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