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Post by andremassena on Jul 8, 2016 2:32:14 GMT
Hello, I was wondering everyone's thoughts. If marshal davout had chosen to defend Paris against the advancing allied armies, how long would he have been able to hold out?
Also, where was Louis Gabriel suchet?
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Post by Laurent de Gouvion on Jul 8, 2016 2:42:42 GMT
1) According to Vauban (17th century siege expert) any fortress/place could be taken by a month, if the besieger had 60.000 troops, 132 heavy cannon with 16.000 cannonballs. The Coalition certainly had more than that. Davout held out at Hamburg for nearly a year (one day short). So maybe a few months if the Coalition had deployed their full strength. Maybe longer if not.
2) Suchet served at the Alpine Front.
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Post by andremassena on Jul 8, 2016 3:15:53 GMT
1) According to Vauban (17th century siege expert) any fortress/place could be taken by a month, if the besieger had 60.000 troops, 132 heavy cannon with 16.000 cannonballs. The Coalition certainly had more than that. Davout held out at Hamburg for nearly a year (one day short). So maybe a few months if the Coalition had deployed their full strength. Maybe longer if not. 2) Suchet served at the Alpine Front. Why didn't Napoleon use suchet and soult in Waterloo? |
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Post by Laurent de Gouvion on Jul 8, 2016 3:29:48 GMT
Soult was Napoleon's chief of staff, but I don't know why Napoleon didn't use Suchet. Probably because he didn't see Wellington and Blucher's armies to be a big threat.
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Post by andremassena on Jul 8, 2016 3:31:57 GMT
Soult was Napoleon's chief of staff, but I don't know why Napoleon didn't use Suchet. Probably because he didn't see Wellington and Blucher's armies to be a big threat. Also, how would you rate grouchy in real life? I never hear about him in the wars of the earlier coalitions. How did he rise to such prominence in such a short time |
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Post by Laurent de Gouvion on Jul 8, 2016 3:46:16 GMT
Grouchy was promoted Marshal because Napoleon had no choice. Some Marshals refused to serve Napoleon (Berthier and St.Cyr comes to mind), Davout was Minister of War, so Napoleon had to make good with what he had.
As to rating, he was okay. Not as exceptional as Lannes or Davout, but he did perform well in his days as General de Division in cavalry. He did win Wavre tactically, and his bad reputation comes more to bad luck than skill.
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Jul 9, 2016 0:59:29 GMT
A) Thread about me, yay!
B) It was a combination of luck and skill for Grouchy
C) If only Davout replaced Grouchy, it would;ve worked out. Davout would have showed up upon hearing the cannonshots, Grouchy didn't
D)Suchet, too, probably would've done better than Grouchy
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Post by Laurent de Gouvion on Jul 9, 2016 1:12:44 GMT
A question: if Ney and Grouchy switched places in the Waterloo Campaign, would Napoleon have won?
Grouchy was a better tactician than Ney (Ney lost Quatre-Bras while Grouchy won Wavre) and Ney would probably march to the sound of guns (he had a record of ermm.. independent will? Jena is an example).
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Jul 9, 2016 1:17:47 GMT
A question: if Ney and Grouchy switched places in the Waterloo Campaign, would Napoleon have won? Grouchy was a better tactician than Ney (Ney lost Quatre-Bras while Grouchy won Wavre) and Ney would probably march to the sound of guns (he had a record of ermm.. independent will? Jena is an example). Napoleon would have probably beat Wellington, and the battle against Blucher would probably be a victory too, albeit a tough one |
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Post by Laurent de Gouvion on Jul 9, 2016 1:21:25 GMT
If Grouchy had fought at Quatre-Bras, Napoleon would have rekt Blucher at Ligny. I don't think Grouchy would have recalled D'Erlon (who was flanking Blucher) and might in a long shot join Napoleon at Ligny after Quatre-Bras.
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Jul 9, 2016 1:31:50 GMT
If Grouchy had fought at Quatre-Bras, Napoleon would have rekt Blucher at Ligny. I don't think Grouchy would have recalled D'Erlon (who was flanking Blucher) and might in a long shot join Napoleon at Ligny after Quatre-Bras. So no Waterloo at all. Interesting possibility! A success at Quatre-Bras or a full wrecking at Ligny would indeed make a huge difference |
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Post by Laurent de Gouvion on Jul 9, 2016 1:36:55 GMT
Well, if Napoleon won the Waterloo Campaign, it would still be a long shot to victory. Wellington would have retreated and Prussia might sue for peace. But Napoleon still had to face Austria and Russia.
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Jul 9, 2016 1:44:31 GMT
Well, if Napoleon won the Waterloo Campaign, it would still be a long shot to victory. Wellington would have retreated and Prussia might sue for peace. But Napoleon still had to face Austria and Russia. True. Even a complete shattering of Wellington would necessitate an expedition to Amsterdam and some form of defense against a possible amphibious assault, plus a turning maneuver to the South to arrive before Schwarzenberg and Barclay knock Rapp out |
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Post by Laurent de Gouvion on Jul 9, 2016 1:53:54 GMT
Well, if Napoleon won the Waterloo Campaign, it would still be a long shot to victory. Wellington would have retreated and Prussia might sue for peace. But Napoleon still had to face Austria and Russia. True. Even a complete shattering of Wellington would necessitate an expedition to Amsterdam and some form of defense against a possible amphibious assault, plus a turning maneuver to the South to arrive before Schwarzenberg and Barclay knock Rapp out Well, if Wellington's army was damaged enough, he would probably be driven to the sea. Napoleon would probably seek to split Schwarzenberg and Barclay and destory them individually. I don't believe it'll end up the Easytech way (Napoleon invades Britain and Canada). But another Continental System would happen, and Napoleon might invade Egypt again, or even India from Indonesia. |
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Jul 9, 2016 2:21:52 GMT
True. Even a complete shattering of Wellington would necessitate an expedition to Amsterdam and some form of defense against a possible amphibious assault, plus a turning maneuver to the South to arrive before Schwarzenberg and Barclay knock Rapp out Well, if Wellington's army was damaged enough, he would probably be driven to the sea. Napoleon would probably seek to split Schwarzenberg and Barclay and destory them individually. I don't believe it'll end up the Easytech way (Napoleon invades Britain and Canada). But another Continental System would happen, and Napoleon might invade Egypt again, or even India from Indonesia. I'd see Spain, then Egypt, then India (via Persia) |
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