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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Oct 24, 2016 23:47:28 GMT
This is true, yes, but it is also true that farming is best done in conquest **mode**, as this gives the maximum number of turns in which to grind away at one's helpless enemies. When going for princesses, grinding/farming is counterproductive because you want it to be over ASAP. When you want to draw out the fun and make it last and you have 999 turns to play with, that's another matter. Well, if grinding was fun, and didn't take special effort, then maybe.
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huehue
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 13
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Post by huehue on Oct 31, 2016 16:10:09 GMT
My favorite method is a 1798 sweden game where you piss off the HRE and prussia.
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Post by TK421 on Oct 31, 2016 17:37:43 GMT
I've been doing HRE and knocking off everyone:P Quite fun to have all of Europe trying to kill you, actually.
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Post by pathdoc on Nov 17, 2016 16:05:42 GMT
I've been doing HRE and knocking off everyone:P Quite fun to have all of Europe trying to kill you, actually. I just finished a 1798 HRE game at 69 turns to score my first princess (Sophia). I have the save about five or six turns before that. Decision - England is currently neutral (I occupied one too many bases). It would be a simple matter to kill a couple of units and turn it into an enemy, but unfortunately this is the Kindle version (99 turn limit) and if I survived, I doubt I would finish the Brits off before the 100th turn. On the other hand, for a medal-grinding mission, who cares? I also have Wittgenstein on a double-guards unit (silly me; I should have made a triple guards unit and sent it over to pick him up as its commander), and it might be fun to see what damage he can do with his five infantry stars & if he can help me get a few medals. HRE is great if you can survive the opening.
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Post by TK421 on Nov 17, 2016 16:15:52 GMT
I've been doing HRE and knocking off everyone:P Quite fun to have all of Europe trying to kill you, actually. I just finished a 1798 HRE game at 69 turns to score my first princess (Sophia). I have the save about five or six turns before that. Decision - England is currently neutral (I occupied one too many bases). It would be a simple matter to kill a couple of units and turn it into an enemy, but unfortunately this is the Kindle version (99 turn limit) and if I survived, I doubt I would finish the Brits off before the 100th turn. On the other hand, for a medal-grinding mission, who cares? I also have Wittgenstein on a double-guards unit (silly me; I should have made a triple guards unit and sent it over to pick him up as its commander), and it might be fun to see what damage he can do with his five infantry stars & if he can help me get a few medals. HRE is great if you can survive the opening. The French are your greatest enemy, here. They rely heavily on both their OP generals (only Op because of the units their on, half the time) and your oversight of their flank. Use and abuse these and they'll fall. Hard.
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Post by pathdoc on Nov 18, 2016 12:03:46 GMT
I just finished a 1798 HRE game at 69 turns to score my first princess (Sophia). I have the save about five or six turns before that. Decision - England is currently neutral (I occupied one too many bases). It would be a simple matter to kill a couple of units and turn it into an enemy, but unfortunately this is the Kindle version (99 turn limit) and if I survived, I doubt I would finish the Brits off before the 100th turn. On the other hand, for a medal-grinding mission, who cares? I also have Wittgenstein on a double-guards unit (silly me; I should have made a triple guards unit and sent it over to pick him up as its commander), and it might be fun to see what damage he can do with his five infantry stars & if he can help me get a few medals. HRE is great if you can survive the opening. The French are your greatest enemy, here. They rely heavily on both their OP generals (only Op because of the units their on, half the time) and your oversight of their flank. Use and abuse these and they'll fall. Hard. Tell me about it. I am still stuck in Austerlitz on Campaign mode, because the French basically bring every good general they've got and I don't have enough time to fight the carefully progressive, artillery-centred battle that I know would guarantee victory. IT is definitely a case where bringing "too many chiefs and not enough indians" is not the problem of the person doing it. In conquest mode, with not less than 99 turns to deal with them (I'm playing the Kindle version and also the Android version on separate devices), I have their measure. This isn't the place to go on discussing it, but I would like to hear more about the flank in this context.
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Post by TK421 on Nov 18, 2016 16:03:25 GMT
The French are your greatest enemy, here. They rely heavily on both their OP generals (only Op because of the units their on, half the time) and your oversight of their flank. Use and abuse these and they'll fall. Hard. Tell me about it. I am still stuck in Austerlitz on Campaign mode, because the French basically bring every good general they've got and I don't have enough time to fight the carefully progressive, artillery-centred battle that I know would guarantee victory. IT is definitely a case where bringing "too many chiefs and not enough indians" is not the problem of the person doing it. In conquest mode, with not less than 99 turns to deal with them (I'm playing the Kindle version and also the Android version on separate devices), I have their measure. This isn't the place to go on discussing it, but I would like to hear more about the flank in this context. Well, yes and no. This isn't the place to talk about it, and it is. why? French generals are OP, and have high health. Rank/nobility and, I think, medals are based on the damage your unit deals to a unit. The higher health your enemy has, the more you can farm off them. Better nobility (AKA Napoleon)=they can recover, and be farmed more. At least this is how I sometimes farm. Less effective than using normal units, but still useful.
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Post by pathdoc on Nov 18, 2016 17:08:10 GMT
Sorry; what I meant was that it wasn't the right place to discuss flanking manoeuvres.
Using incredibly overpowered enemies as some sort of medal-spilling pinata is definitely on topic and I agree it's a very good idea, but of course some rank/nobility farming can be required first to make sure your own generals/princesses survive the experience, otherwise someone like Napoleon will just smack them down in a turn or two and you waste time with extra save-reloads.
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Post by pathdoc on Nov 19, 2016 16:48:17 GMT
I have saved myself a nice little medals grind. Turn 76/99 on Kindle platform, playing as HRE, I had immobilised Britain by turning it neutral and then occupying all its farms, and it turns out the AI was running food supplies pretty close to the margin because they went into total confusion really quickly. The really good thing is that they had already put a hell of a lot of units and forts down on the Continent, which gave me a target-rich environment for 24 turns and nobody able to shoot back worth a damn.
(Incidentally it seems that the AI's strategy of fort-spamming near the end may be because forts don't consume food while human units do, and if you still have plenty of gold and wrenches and very little food, it's cheaper to place a whole lot of forts close together than it is to put down 2-formation line infantry...)
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Post by pathdoc on Nov 21, 2016 16:22:36 GMT
Once this is all set up all you do is kill respawn with the 3 generals and press next turn. Your generals will eventualy get so strong as to 1 shot the weaker units, at that point SAVE the game and you can keep reloading the same game to train your generals more and more. This works because general rank and medals are persistent and don't depend on saves/loads. Enjoy your medal farming, feel free to ask any question if something is not clear, or just have a comment to add. Okay, here is something I've just noticed (see bold above). The clear implication is that there is a continuous increase in hitting strength with ongoing game play (or more precisely infliction of damage by that general; he's not going to get any better just sitting quietly in a corner). Yet I see nothing of the variables in the output formula (see thread in EW headquarters forum) to allow for this, viz. b = base output for attacker (base output) – use the average of low and high in the info screen as a guide (the sword icon with, e.g. 1-6 or 2-10; add and divide by 2). h = attacker health coefficient m = morale (first of attacker, then of defender; +1 for golden eagle, -1 for every down-arrow or confusion) f = formation coefficient (5 or 6 or 7) g = generals stars gh = general health coefficient a = boost items for attacker d = boost items for defender l = enemy level (chevrons, if star then l = 5) ex = extra damage ev = evaded damage r = restraint coefficient (for battles between inf/cav is always 1; for arty vs cav is 0.85, arty vs inf or other arty is 0.95 but 1 is close enough). As adapted from... european-war-4.boards.net/thread/1368/output-formula-skill-analysis#ixzz4NiTzcvGc So unless I'm missing something in the input-variable definitions, or there's some other hidden variable that hasn't been uncovered, any such increase in killing power would have to occur in variable b somehow. As things stand, it's calculated by picking two random numbers between the unit's minimum and maximum hitting power, averaging and rounding down to nearest integer; the best I can think of is that there are modifiers on the random number generator, tied to unit experience, to selectively prefer higher output and reject random numbers in the lower range.
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Post by pathdoc on Nov 25, 2016 12:10:49 GMT
Okay, so I attempted to duplicate saltin's method as directed in the original post, bearing in mind the platform I tried it on has the 99-turn version (the Kindle is just smaller and easier to carry around). All went reasonably well, but a combination of circumstances and temptation soon had me rolling that wall of armoured cars inexorably westward. Because I don't yet have a lot of strong generals and only one Princess (Sophia), I wasn't too bothered about setting up a proper rank grind. Observations are as follows:
1) The Great Wall of AC's soon degenerates into a series of envelopments of cities, gun factories and stables. This doesn't matter much, as the medal haul can be truly impressive. If you stay in Western Europe and don't cross the Alps southwards, you can surround Milan and Turin and grind them indefinitely; Rome and the other buildings to the south pay for the respawns.
2) Gun factories can be a problem. When the AI respawns a siege gun or a rocket launcher it is like shooting fish in a barrel, but if they spawn light or heavy artillery, soon enough the AC's take too much of a beating to shoot effectively (since damage dished out is proportional to own health). After four or five turns, I tend to occupy these in order to gain the extra tech output needed to build more armoured cars.
3) Stables are also juicy targets, but every now and then I occupy these as well, so replacement armoured cars can be created locally rather than having to travel across the battlefield.
4) Occasionally I was too quick in assigning the next attacker, with the result that I accidentally occupied a city whose defender had just died.
5) Sweden can be a pain in the you-know-what. I had a save at move 63/99, but I now have it at 72/99 because I took the time to turn Sweden (and also Denmark) neutral/hostile. Then I could grind away without fear of having pesky allies ruin everything for me (they stole at least two grinding cities before I did this). So take the time to do that early on (and if you cannot flip them neutral/hostile, then at least starve them out and immobilise them).
6) After a while, the Ottoman Empire stops respawning in Istanbul. I wondered why this should be, but later I found out - I am so used to the 1798 game that I forgot 1815 has northern Africa. There was a SWARM of enemy units gathered around Egypt and extending into the southern part of eastern Turkey as we now know it. Once this starts happening, you might as well occupy Istanbul and cross the straits; there is a target-rich environment to grind rank and medals on (and it doesn't exactly hurt nobility either). When I DID occupy Istanbul, the Turkish units immediately went one-down-arrow; they must be close to starvation given their numbers, and they were using Istanbul to swap gold and tech for food.
7) Especially for those playing on 999-turn platforms, tavern generals are excellent for medal grinding here. Dobeln on an infantry double machine gun, for example, will output 100+ and will therefore kill many light units with one shot.
8) Even if you only have the 99-turn version and have to reload after a short number of turns, the game becomes an exercise in industrialised slaughter. Just don't conquer too much of France, or your respawns will run out! (Once you have the Eastern half, you have about five or six cities that you are constantly grinding medals on, and that's not counting whatever you're doing in the East, the Ottoman Empire, and - in the long game - Africa.
9) Thank you saltin. My medal count is climbing like crazy, and now I have to do some serious thinking about which training general to buy first! (But that's another topic.)
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Post by Tariq ibn Ziyad on Nov 27, 2016 1:00:59 GMT
What if the Iron Horse Wall got attacked by arties?
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Nov 27, 2016 5:07:55 GMT
What if the Iron Horse Wall got attacked by arties? Ypu need replacements then, that's what.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 27, 2016 5:43:58 GMT
What if the Iron Horse Wall got attacked by arties? Ypu need replacements then, that's what. I think I'll make a Trafalgar medal grinding guide later.
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Post by pathdoc on Nov 27, 2016 16:24:52 GMT
Ypu need replacements then, that's what. I think I'll make a Trafalgar medal grinding guide later. Excellent. All the better if it's as the British and doesn't rely on having powerful naval generals from the Academy. All too often, the expert players suggest grinds that depend on having strong academy generals, but in order to have strong academy generals you must first have done a lot of grinding (if you don't want to spend real money). I need to develop a saltin style grind for my android platform, which should be easier to do than on Kindle as I will have the time to be patient, get all my tavern generals out, and methodically neutralise Sweden and Denmark before I set off on my grinding trip so they don't get in my way. Then I can regroup my one useless general I bought while still a noob and fill some of the slots with some real talent before I go off chasing princesses. I do wish we had more save slots.
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