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Post by pathdoc on Jan 25, 2017 16:35:52 GMT
(Context - removes the deficit in combat output suffered by land units fighting on or from water.)
So I'm thinking of getting this one from the HQ shop (say what you like; this is my intent and I'm content to spend the extra medals), if only because I have at least one seriously deadly artillery general (Sophia), and it would enable her to hit coast artillery and coastal cities hard, and fight on a level playing field against enemy naval units. Seems that (eventually) adding +6 gunpowder would help her out a great deal too, especially if used with rocket projectiles: if using save/load you get a good chance of a one-shot kill or at least severe damage with no retaliation, and if fighting multiple enemy units in close proximity, there is the useful effect of spillover into the third hex.
Of course one must be careful in this context about letting the enemy get too close, because of the lack of adjacent-square fire or your unit shooting back in the AI combat phase.
Who else has it & finds it useful, and how do they use it? What items do they combine it with?
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Post by huykhoi2000 on Jan 25, 2017 16:40:06 GMT
Just wondering if amoured carrier affect in the enemy turn or just when my general atk them
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Jan 25, 2017 16:44:34 GMT
Some items and skills, including sailor which does this, turns out to be useless. Hopefully someone can tell us if this item actually works or not.
Seems pretty expensive for what it does, but hey, it works it works, and you are willing to pay.
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Post by pathdoc on Jan 25, 2017 21:31:58 GMT
Update - I've bought it, and in the next few days (as time allows) I will be conducting experiments with it. They will not be completely scientific and statistical, as I currently have no spare spaces available for save/load, but I will certainly record firepower delivered from sea onto land targets and onto ships where available, and the conditions under which achieved, and you can all make up your minds from there.
Input as to the way others have used it remains welcome.
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Post by Mountbatten on Jan 26, 2017 13:00:23 GMT
I find the amount of situations to use an armored carrier is very low and not worth the huge price
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Post by huykhoi2000 on Jan 26, 2017 15:56:37 GMT
I find the amount of situations to use an armored carrier is very low and not worth the huge price That was what I'm thinking. This item can help a lot with sea battles, but not so much can be found in this game |
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Post by pathdoc on Jan 26, 2017 16:11:53 GMT
My limited experience so far suggests that it is excellent when attacking coastal artillery and towns with rockets and siege artillery from seaward. Sophia hits at least as hard as she does from land, so the item certainly functions as intended.
I think this function is probably put to most advantage in the North American area of operations, where coastal cities, fortresses, coast artillery and other bases are numerous and frequently the target of attack from seaborne forces. Coast artillery and certainly fortresses adjacent to the ocean are nowhere near as plentiful in Europe (though it could be very useful in reducing Istanbul).
From this perspective its usefulness is fully confirmed.
It's not so good with light and heavy art against ships and certainly not good for rocket artillery and siege guns that cannot fire against enemies in contact.
With rocket artillery, at best it appears to give artillery generals an enhanced self-defence capacity against marauding enemy warships (e.g. British or French trying to invade the other; Britain trying to hit the Danish coast if Denmark is an enemy and has warships out), but does not make such a general the equal of a warship in naval combat. The problem here is both the minimum range and the tendency to spread fire across more than one hex, which dilutes the "hit" any single warship receives. I have not yet had an opportunity to try anti-ship combat out with a siege gun, but this should mitigate the damage-spreading problem.
Against isolated enemy land units making water transits, it should be pretty effective given a powerful enough general on the carrier. I have tried it against massed enemy units on water, but my grind save already has Sophia on rocket artillery and I can't switch her to heavy artillery, which would be far more useful in this scenario, keep her from getting swamped at contact range (thank God she's 86/10), and enable her to multi-retaliate against everything around her.
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Jan 26, 2017 16:21:03 GMT
My limited experience so far suggests that it is excellent when attacking coastal artillery and towns with rockets and siege artillery from seaward. Sophia hits at least as hard as she does from land, so the item certainly functions as intended. I think this function is probably put to most advantage in the North American area of operations, where coastal cities, fortresses, coast artillery and other bases are numerous and frequently the target of attack from seaborne forces. Coast artillery and certainly fortresses adjacent to the ocean are nowhere near as plentiful in Europe (though it could be very useful in reducing Istanbul). From this perspective its usefulness is fully confirmed. It's not so good with light and heavy art against ships and certainly not good for rocket artillery and siege guns that cannot fire against enemies in contact. With rocket artillery, at best it appears to give artillery generals an enhanced self-defence capacity against marauding enemy warships (e.g. British or French trying to invade the other; Britain trying to hit the Danish coast if Denmark is an enemy and has warships out), but does not make such a general the equal of a warship in naval combat. The problem here is both the minimum range and the tendency to spread fire across more than one hex, which dilutes the "hit" any single warship receives. I have not yet had an opportunity to try anti-ship combat out with a siege gun, but this should mitigate the damage-spreading problem. Against isolated enemy land units making water transits, it should be pretty effective given a powerful enough general on the carrier. That is extremely situational and rare. I see two uses for it: landing missions and conquest invasions of Britain. Not worth the price, IMO. |
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Post by pathdoc on Jan 26, 2017 19:40:36 GMT
My limited experience so far suggests that it is excellent when attacking coastal artillery and towns with rockets and siege artillery from seaward. Sophia hits at least as hard as she does from land, so the item certainly functions as intended. I think this function is probably put to most advantage in the North American area of operations, where coastal cities, fortresses, coast artillery and other bases are numerous and frequently the target of attack from seaborne forces. Coast artillery and certainly fortresses adjacent to the ocean are nowhere near as plentiful in Europe (though it could be very useful in reducing Istanbul). From this perspective its usefulness is fully confirmed. It's not so good with light and heavy art against ships and certainly not good for rocket artillery and siege guns that cannot fire against enemies in contact. With rocket artillery, at best it appears to give artillery generals an enhanced self-defence capacity against marauding enemy warships (e.g. British or French trying to invade the other; Britain trying to hit the Danish coast if Denmark is an enemy and has warships out), but does not make such a general the equal of a warship in naval combat. The problem here is both the minimum range and the tendency to spread fire across more than one hex, which dilutes the "hit" any single warship receives. I have not yet had an opportunity to try anti-ship combat out with a siege gun, but this should mitigate the damage-spreading problem. Against isolated enemy land units making water transits, it should be pretty effective given a powerful enough general on the carrier. That is extremely situational and rare. I see two uses for it: landing missions and conquest invasions of Britain. Not worth the price, IMO. The Great Lakes in America (both years) and the eastern seaboard of the US with their multiple nations in 1775 plus the area of water between Florida (Netherlands) and Louisiana (Spain with city guarded by Fort) seem made to order for it, then. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Jan 26, 2017 20:20:33 GMT
I'll just borrow them for a campaign, and give it back right after I finish it.
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Jan 27, 2017 0:49:31 GMT
That is extremely situational and rare. I see two uses for it: landing missions and conquest invasions of Britain. Not worth the price, IMO. The Great Lakes in America (both years) and the eastern seaboard of the US with their multiple nations in 1775 plus the area of water between Florida (Netherlands) and Louisiana (Spain with city guarded by Fort) seem made to order for it, then. No, not really. In the Great Lakes, the movement penalty of crossing the water is prohibitive for the small bodies. In the Florida area, seaborne operations only have a purpose in attacking New Orleans, and that's just one city. |
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Post by pathdoc on Feb 7, 2017 16:59:44 GMT
In playing the 1815 wall-of-armoured-cars grind out to turn 79 or so (at which point I saved it for use as a medal and rank grind), I had neglected to watch what was going on in Egypt. Swarms of Turks and North Africans overran it and were clustered off the coast to its north. This is a massively target-rich environment, and is made to order for a cavalry general who wants to get rank experience fast. Give them On War etc. and the Armoured Carrier and send them in to hack away from the edges. Alternatively if you are just grinding for medals and sheer number of kills (for academy refreshes), take off the rank/nobility boosting items and put in a cavalry pistol. If they have the Sailor skill, they don't need armoured carrier; give them destructive items.
That being said, the only non-IAP cavalry sailor I could find was Johann I, who doesn't have any other strong points to recommend him... and at 700+ medals, the payoff on his investment would take a while; Abercromby is an infantry sailor costing 380, but he is only two-star and his other skill is transport, which only really makes him worth training up if you think you'll be doing a LOT of coastal fighting from the seaward side. Maybe one for some mod scenarios; IDK.
On the other hand, Dobeln in 1815, as a Tavern general, came with the armoured carrier in my grind (does he always? I wonder), and this makes him formidable towards the end of my grind, when the French have beaten the Brits and their expeditionary force (along with a whole lot of Algerians) is swarming back onto European shores to aid in the defence of la patrie. Play as Russia, drop him on a double machine gun and you have a two-hex mover with damage routinely in the eighties to low hundreds when the enemy unit is one down on morale (send someone with him to help with this) who can deal with Scandinavia and then stand into the North Sea to intercept French and Algerian units coming back or (earlier in the grind) head straight out to Scotland to work his way back down and save Britain from falling. If you already have Dobeln as one of your own generals, give him the Baker rifle and the armoured carrier for even greater on-water effect. With the damage he deals out, enemy units which face him come out much the worse for wear and he probably doesn't need Snare Drum.
It is somewhat less suited to an artillery general; Carteaux was quickly overwhelmed and went into double-down-morale shock because he couldn't kill enemies fast enough, and in fact he got driven into paralysis and required rescue. For any general who can't make multiple kills in the attack phase, Leadership is essential if you want to grind in this fashion, which probably makes this scenario excellent for grinding rank with Lan.
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Post by Banastre Tarleton on Feb 8, 2017 23:12:53 GMT
pathdoc, some interesting observations there, but in general they seem to run counter to the raison d'etre for the 1815 wall-of-armored-cars grind which is to maximize the multi-attack capabilities (in a single turn) of cavalry units (armoured cars) with your designated subject general(s). I would agree that cavalry pistol is essential for this grind to offset the effect of dropping a general with no or few cavalry stars into an armored car, and have him stopped short on his killing spree - due to fresh out-of-the-box ineffectiveness.
This is not an indictment of how you choose to enjoy the game, but when you start mixing in non-cav unit types you lose the efficiency play of the scenario and on a real-time basis are taking more time to grind medals and level-up generals then you do by sticking to the script.
Regarding the armored carrier, I suspect your attack would be more effective assaulting a land unit (on water) from land than you would by going seaborne + armored carrier and fighting seaborne land unit vs. seaborne land unit.
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Feb 9, 2017 1:24:20 GMT
pathdoc, it makes zero sense to buy an item so it can make your medal-grinding a tiny bit more efficient. You have 6 generals at most, so there's no need to put one at sea ANYWAY.
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Post by pathdoc on Feb 9, 2017 7:17:05 GMT
The 1815 grind is what it is, and I do use it as intended, but I could not help but notice the large number of seaborne targets my benign neglect had created, and wondered what use I might make of it.
At the end of the day I tried Armoured Carrier out for FUN, and to give others who might be considering it, or considering a general with the equivalent sailor skill, a picture of its ups and downs. I figured it was better to share my experiences than not, and people could make up their own minds and decide whether or not it fits in with how they want to play. Not all of us are hardcore S/L junkies who want to win all the princesses and finish all the campaigns ASAP; some of us just want to mess around and experiment to relax.
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