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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Mar 28, 2017 0:39:07 GMT
Bismarck, the #3 Artillery in the game. #2 if you exclude IAP Napoleon. Unlocked by treasures. Sweet!
His lvl6 ability, however, is less sweet. +50% against Cavalry?! Why? He's an artillery!
That's what most people say. I disagree.
For a non-IAP player, how many viable Archers do we have?
Nobunaga: good
Nelson: good
Li Hongzhang: Decent
Yi Sun-Sin: Decent
All of these, except Li Hongzhang, lose their anti-cav skills in Level 6. Maybe we need another cav destroyer...
That's where Bismarck comes in. He still has his fort-destruction ability, so he's an artillery, but he can also blow up horses. Nice!
If you have Washington, the dynamics are different, as you have a 2nd cav-killer, but if you don't, maybe lvl6 Bismarck is viable.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 1:21:23 GMT
I never understood why Bismarck got so much hate for his ability if I didn't hAve Napoleon in would use him
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Mar 28, 2017 1:30:55 GMT
Bismarck, the #3 Artillery in the game. #2 if you exclude IAP Napoleon. Unlocked by treasures. Sweet! His lvl6 ability, however, is less sweet. +50% against Cavalry?! Why? He's an artillery! That's what most people say. I disagree. For a non-IAP player, how many viable Archers do we have? Nobunaga: good Nelson: good Li Hongzhang: Decent Yi Sun-Sin: Decent All of these, except Li Hongzhang, lose their anti-cav skills in Level 6. Maybe we need another cav destroyer... That's where Bismarck comes in. He still has his fort-destruction ability, so he's an artillery, but he can also blow up horses. Nice! If you have Washington, the dynamics are different, as you have a 2nd cav-killer, but if you don't, maybe lvl6 Bismarck is viable. When you have Nelson, Li Hongzhang, maybe even Jhansi, your archers' output is already high enough to replace their losses in anti-cav bonus. And Bismarck will lose his no-retaliation, which could be a big thing, because sometimes enemy arty generals have Rumor/Navigation... |
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Post by stoic on Mar 28, 2017 1:45:20 GMT
I think his new skill is not bad at all. I my opinoin the problem is not what he gains at lvl 6, but what he loses. Artillery forts are no joke at lvl 6. They can seriously damage your units. So unless an artillery general has "Plunder" or "Logistics", - his "no retaliation" fire is the only possibility to make it through the day.
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Post by best75 on Mar 28, 2017 3:13:23 GMT
I still prefer keeping my bismarck at lvl 5. Losing no retaliation is a big deal. You will find bismarck dying a more often now that he's taking damage from towers, artillery, sometimes archers when he attacks.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 10:19:32 GMT
Bismarck, the #3 Artillery in the game. #2 if you exclude IAP Napoleon. Unlocked by treasures. Sweet! His lvl6 ability, however, is less sweet. +50% against Cavalry?! Why? He's an artillery! That's what most people say. I disagree. For a non-IAP player, how many viable Archers do we have? Nobunaga: good Nelson: good Li Hongzhang: Decent Yi Sun-Sin: Decent All of these, except Li Hongzhang, lose their anti-cav skills in Level 6. Maybe we need another cav destroyer... That's where Bismarck comes in. He still has his fort-destruction ability, so he's an artillery, but he can also blow up horses. Nice! If you have Washington, the dynamics are different, as you have a 2nd cav-killer, but if you don't, maybe lvl6 Bismarck is viable. Isn't Heihachiro better then Bismarck? At elite troop, he cannot be counter-attacked, has artillery general, defense master (!), and navigator. I think he is clearly the #3 artillery general. |
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Post by andrei on Mar 28, 2017 10:49:05 GMT
Bismarck, the #3 Artillery in the game. #2 if you exclude IAP Napoleon. Unlocked by treasures. Sweet! His lvl6 ability, however, is less sweet. +50% against Cavalry?! Why? He's an artillery! That's what most people say. I disagree. For a non-IAP player, how many viable Archers do we have? Nobunaga: good Nelson: good Li Hongzhang: Decent Yi Sun-Sin: Decent All of these, except Li Hongzhang, lose their anti-cav skills in Level 6. Maybe we need another cav destroyer... That's where Bismarck comes in. He still has his fort-destruction ability, so he's an artillery, but he can also blow up horses. Nice! If you have Washington, the dynamics are different, as you have a 2nd cav-killer, but if you don't, maybe lvl6 Bismarck is viable. Isn't Heihachiro better then Bismarck? At elite troop, he cannot be counter-attacked, has artillery general, defense master (!), and navigator. I think he is clearly the #3 artillery general. Useless skills for artillery. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 11:11:39 GMT
Isn't Heihachiro better then Bismarck? At elite troop, he cannot be counter-attacked, has artillery general, defense master (!), and navigator. I think he is clearly the #3 artillery general. Useless skills for artillery. Why would the skills be useless? Unless Bismarck, Heihachiro cannot be counter-attacked, his Defense Master makes up for the low defense that every artillery general has, and is superior to Bismarck's General skill. It depends of the scenario, but Navigator is equivalent with Rumor, and Artillery Commander is clearly a better skill, than Explosive Master. |
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Post by best75 on Mar 28, 2017 11:35:04 GMT
Useless skills for artillery. Why would the skills be useless? Unless Bismarck, Heihachiro cannot be counter-attacked, his Defense Master makes up for the low defense that every artillery general has, and is superior to Bismarck's General skill. It depends of the scenairo, but Navigator is equivalent with Rumor, and Artillery Commander is clearly a better skill, than Explosive Master. I disagree I think Bismarck is 3rd for artillery. Bismarck cannot be counter attacked too, rumor is a better skill than navigator since you fight on land far more often than sea. Now I consider artillery commander to be the weakest commander skill since artillery are the least likely to do a counter attack so I consider explosive master to be better skill than artillery master. |
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Post by andrei on Mar 28, 2017 11:45:03 GMT
Useless skills for artillery. Why would the skills be useless? Unless Bismarck, Heihachiro cannot be counter-attacked, his Defense Master makes up for the low defense that every artillery general has, and is superior to Bismarck's General skill. It depends of the scenario, but Navigator is equivalent with Rumor, and Artillery Commander is clearly a better skill, than Explosive Master. 1) As You see in the comments most of the players leave Bismark at lv50 with "no retaliation". But if not it is anyway not very topical for a unit with range 3. Almost useless to my experience. 2) Defense master. Too expensive. You'll never invest medals in it. Simply will have no medals for that as there are a lot of other generals with much better and topical skills in Your team. So.. also useless. 3) Navigator. Totally useless for artillery. There are few missions where You need to sail with artillery. It will help You maybe once-twice. You definetely can leave without it. To spend medals on the skill to be triggered couple of times during the whole game? 4) Artillery commander. Also useless. Most of the time one artillery is sufficient. In the endgame You need two. But not more. You are OK with normal attack. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 12:12:26 GMT
Also by the end when people get to industrial they already have a artillery General (they should) so heichahiro is not thought about, also his skills are trash for Artillery, and bismarck is worth treasures which are free!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 12:13:45 GMT
Come on guys we all know Khalid is the #1 artillery General(just a joke)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 13:05:45 GMT
Why would the skills be useless? Unless Bismarck, Heihachiro cannot be counter-attacked, his Defense Master makes up for the low defense that every artillery general has, and is superior to Bismarck's General skill. It depends of the scenario, but Navigator is equivalent with Rumor, and Artillery Commander is clearly a better skill, than Explosive Master. 1) As You see in the comments most of the players leave Bismark at lv50 with "no retaliation". But if not it is anyway not very topical for a unit with range 3. Almost useless to my experience. 2) Defense master. Too expensive. You'll never invest medals in it. Simply will have no medals for that as there are a lot of other generals with much better and topical skills in Your team. So.. also useless. 3) Navigator. Totally useless for artillery. There are few missions where You need to sail with artillery. It will help You maybe once-twice. You definetely can leave without it. To spend medals on the skill to be triggered couple of times during the whole game? 4) Artillery commander. Also useless. Most of the time one artillery is sufficient. In the endgame You need two. But not more. You are OK with normal attack. Interesting. 1) When you leave Bismarck at 5 stars, he is clearly weaker in stats compared to Heihachiro at elite troop. No retaliation is not useless, why would you even leave Bismarck at 5 stars in the first place, when you need this skill? What you are saying isn't logical. Also it is one of the best skills, even with a unit that has a range of 3, since artillery towers are becoming stronger and stronger further in the game, and it is also great against enemy artillery generals. 2) I'm not talking about cost, I'm talking about what is better; and Defense Master is definitely better than "General". 3) I can agree with that. 1 point for Bismarck. 4) To attack +50% for 3 rounds is better, especially against towers, then attack +80% once. For attacking units, Explosive Master is better, yes, but neither Heihachiro or Bismarck are strong attackers, their primal target are walls and towers. So it's 3:1 for Heihachiro. |
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Post by andrei on Mar 28, 2017 13:20:24 GMT
1) When you leave Bismarck at 5 stars, he is clearly weaker in stats compared to Heihachiro at elite troop. No retaliation is not useless, why would you even leave Bismarck at 5 stars in the first place, when you need this skill? What you are saying isn't logical. Also it is one of the best skills, even with a unit that has a range of 3, since artillery towers are becoming stronger and stronger further in the game, and it is also great against enemy artillery generals. 2) I'm not talking about cost, I'm talking about what is better; and Defense Master is definitely better than "General". 3) I can agree with that. 1 point for Bismarck. 4) To attack +50% for 3 rounds is better, especially against towers, then attack +80% once. For attacking units, Explosive Master is better, yes, but neither Heihachiro or Bismarck are strong attackers, their primal target are walls and towers. So it's 3:1 for Heihachiro. 1) I mean that Your reason "no counter attack" is not applicable as most of the players use him at lv50. So he also has no counter attack. Personally I do not need his "no retaliation" skill as most of the time I do not attack towers. I attack either gates or walls - as those are weaker and it is easier to leave towers either to my first artillery, other team members to attack it close-in fighting or even just leave it behind to advance faster when possible. 2) We should talk not about cheaper-better. We are talking here about usable or not. This skill is not usable. Nobody upgrades this skill as it is unefficient. So why do we compare unusable skills? 4) As You said Heihachiro is not the best attacker so +50% (only when the commander is activated) is not that necessary. Why did You leave Bismark's Rumor behind Your count 3:1 ? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 13:38:20 GMT
1) When you leave Bismarck at 5 stars, he is clearly weaker in stats compared to Heihachiro at elite troop. No retaliation is not useless, why would you even leave Bismarck at 5 stars in the first place, when you need this skill? What you are saying isn't logical. Also it is one of the best skills, even with a unit that has a range of 3, since artillery towers are becoming stronger and stronger further in the game, and it is also great against enemy artillery generals. 2) I'm not talking about cost, I'm talking about what is better; and Defense Master is definitely better than "General". 3) I can agree with that. 1 point for Bismarck. 4) To attack +50% for 3 rounds is better, especially against towers, then attack +80% once. For attacking units, Explosive Master is better, yes, but neither Heihachiro or Bismarck are strong attackers, their primal target are walls and towers. So it's 3:1 for Heihachiro. 1) I mean that Your reason "no counter attack" is not applicable as most of the players use him at lv50. So he also has no counter attack. Personally I do not need his "no retaliation" skill as most of the time I do not attack towers. I attack either gates or walls - as those are weaker and it is easier to leave towers either to my first artillery, other team members to attack it close-in fighting or even just leave it behind to advance faster when possible. 2) We should talk not about cheaper-better. We are talking here about usable or not. This skill is not usable. Nobody upgrades this skill as it is unefficient. So why do we compare unusable skills? 4) As You said Heihachiro is not the best attacker so +50% (only when the commander is activated) is not that necessary. Why did You left Bismark's Rumor behind Your count 3:1 ? That 1 is the Rumor.  Let's put it this way: I'm, not saying Heihachiro is worth it. Bismarck is way cheaper. BUT: cheaper is not equivalent with better. Let's say, you have unlimited medals. Which one would you choose? From my point of view, clearly not Bismarck, he is never the 3th best artillery general in the game. If we are talking about cost, Bismarck would be even better the Li Shimin, or Napoleon. He is for free, and has 5 stars at stock. PS: 4) I really don't understand that argument. What mathematics are you doing, that 3x50% is worse than 1x80%? If the bonus attack from Artillery Commander isn't that necessary, then the one from Explosive Master isn't either. |
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