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Post by pirke on Apr 5, 2017 16:05:57 GMT
Want to know minimal requirements for Lan?
My gens are:
Sophia +1 Move 98/9
Isabela +1 Arty 54/7
Raevsky 64/8
Kutaisov 10/0
camp star 120
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Post by Louis-Alexandre Berthier on Apr 9, 2017 14:06:21 GMT
I would try getting more campaign stars. I didn't get Lan until 175 stars. But usually, campaign progress aside, I believe it's about 31 turns with over 9000 gold and food, and over 2000 iron.
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Post by 3rd Corps on Apr 10, 2017 16:42:06 GMT
Isabela and Raevsky need a lot more rank. Your campaign progress needs to be almost doubled, also.
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Post by Banastre Tarleton on Apr 12, 2017 20:57:57 GMT
I assume that imminently you'll be regrouping Kutaisov. There's no point in developing a third-string artillery-man with trainer skill just to have someone to put on a single-light.
Now would be a good time to get Golitsyn. Raevsky can be a second-string cavalryman but doesn't strike me as a 30ish turn rusher and he'll be retired when you get Lan.
Assuming you're doing HRE1798 for Lan, your western front cavalry general has to be top notch which translates into a "speedy killer". This is why you need either war-horse or saddle item (preferably both) and Golitsyn (+ snare drum).
You don't need to deplete morale in Spain to finish that conquest in 30ish turns, but the alternative is to do a lot of two-turn takedowns (arrive/attack then attack/occupy). Given that depleting morale is a balance between remaining units and available resources, your only options are one tactic or the other and you need a general+items capable of executing them.
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Post by Louis-Alexandre Berthier on Apr 12, 2017 21:12:25 GMT
I assume that imminently you'll be regrouping Kutaisov. There's no point in developing a third-string artillery-man with trainer skill just to have someone to put on a single-light. Now would be a good time to get Golitsyn. Raevsky can be a second-string cavalryman but doesn't strike me as a 30ish turn rusher and he'll be retired when you get Lan. Assuming you're doing HRE1798 for Lan, your western front cavalry general has to be top notch which translates into a "speedy killer". This is why you need either war-horse or saddle item (preferably both) and Golitsyn (+ snare drum). You don't need to deplete morale in Spain to finish that conquest in 30ish turns, but the alternative is to do a lot of two-turn takedowns (arrive/attack then attack/occupy). Given that depleting morale is a balance between remaining units and available resources, your only options are one tactic or the other and you need a general+items capable of executing them. I agree about Kutaisov- in fact, one should just buy a bunch of them to train Sophia and Isabella. Raevsky is good, and although Golitsyn is better output-wise (which he is better at output than just about everyone), he is expensive, and should be used as a last slot-filler (he requires no training) if you have already bought Raevsky or Sulkowski. I would also add a cavalry pistol (+6). In the last Eastern Overlord campaign, there's one you can buy there with Tsar Alexander I (five stars trading). Also, even with great generals and items, HRE 1798 requires a lot of luck in order to get Lan. There are so many things that you cannot dictate. |
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Post by Banastre Tarleton on Apr 13, 2017 21:10:36 GMT
Yes, of the generals that can be purchased for medals, Golitsyn is the most expensive. That valuation alone speaks volumes from the game's creators as to his relative impact on game-play. Also, if you place credence in the generals analysis published in this forum you'll note that he's the only non-princess in the top 5 (grade-A or better). You can make the choice between buying 10 Honda Accords or a single Ferrari, but only one of those is going to get you 0-60 in less than four seconds.
I wish people would stop speaking of "last slot filler" like it's a thing. It's only a thing if the player chooses to make it so, either by being unwilling to pony up 99 cents, or on a quixotic quest to make a difficult game to finish even more so. Academically speaking, it’s a mildly interesting concept but the only hard constraint on your HQ is the max six-generals in-play rule.
And while a “last slot-filler” may not require training stars, he/she will absolutely require conditioning to be of value. And the best way to do that is by working him through the campaigns/conquests, unless you plan on farming or buying the thousands of medals that would be required to level-up your last-slot filler in-time to make an impact.
Sophia, Isabella, and Golitsyn are end-game generals. Raevsky is not, nor does he have the training skill. You’ll need two cavalry generals to finish the game and people should acquire end-game generals at the earliest opportunity so that by the end of game those generals are strong enough to get through the more challenging campaigns.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the ability of a 3* Raevsky to rush for Lan. Items are of help, but the ability to “mass fire” is only as good as the general doing the shooting. Medals required to train Raevsky to 5* could practically buy Golitsyn. And even with 5*, Raevsky is an option “c” by end-game.
HRE1798 has no more variables and requires no greater luck than any other conquest, but depending on how astute a player is, it may need to be played multiple times to see the recurring patterns that were coded.
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Post by Louis-Alexandre Berthier on Apr 13, 2017 23:38:58 GMT
Yes, of the generals that can be purchased for medals, Golitsyn is the most expensive. That valuation alone speaks volumes from the game's creators as to his relative impact on game-play. Also, if you place credence in the generals analysis published in this forum you'll note that he's the only non-princess in the top 5 (grade-A or better). You can make the choice between buying 10 Honda Accords or a single Ferrari, but only one of those is going to get you 0-60 in less than four seconds. I wish people would stop speaking of "last slot filler" like it's a thing. It's only a thing if the player chooses to make it so, either by being unwilling to pony up 99 cents, or on a quixotic quest to make a difficult game to finish even more so. Academically speaking, it’s a mildly interesting concept but the only hard constraint on your HQ is the max six-generals in-play rule. And while a “last slot-filler” may not require training stars, he/she will absolutely require conditioning to be of value. And the best way to do that is by working him through the campaigns/conquests, unless you plan on farming or buying the thousands of medals that would be required to level-up your last-slot filler in-time to make an impact. Sophia, Isabella, and Golitsyn are end-game generals. Raevsky is not, nor does he have the training skill. You’ll need two cavalry generals to finish the game and people should acquire end-game generals at the earliest opportunity so that by the end of game those generals are strong enough to get through the more challenging campaigns. We’ll have to agree to disagree on the ability of a 3* Raevsky to rush for Lan. Items are of help, but the ability to “mass fire” is only as good as the general doing the shooting. Medals required to train Raevsky to 5* could practically buy Golitsyn. And even with 5*, Raevsky is an option “c” by end-game. HRE1798 has no more variables and requires no greater luck than any other conquest, but depending on how astute a player is, it may need to be played multiple times to see the recurring patterns that were coded. Raevsky is a 3 star cav 4 star movement general, with move trainer, surprise, defense art (which is better than most poeple think). Raevsky vs. Golitsyn is an extra move star + Defense Art vs Strike and two extra cav stars. Add that Raevsky has movement trainer, which honestly is pretty rare. Trust me, I would rather get Sulk or Golitsyn over Raevsky. After my first playthrough which featured Raevsky at first, but then switched to Golitsyn, I recognized the sheer power of Golitsyn. However, as he already has gotten Raevsky, it would not be wise to get another cavalry general that costs as much as Golitsyn does. As for requirements for Lan, although someone like Golitsyn is prefered, it can be done with worse. On my first playthrough of this game, I did it with Raevsky in 30 turns. Heck, Kanue said he did it with Sakurako on his HRE guide. Pirke, once he gets some items, is well prepared to take on HRE after grinding some more rank. Raevsky in the East, Sophia in Italy, and Isabella in Ottoman. That's how I did it. While a lot of people do buy extra slots, not all people do, and it's better to assume that they only have 4. Some people do get angry if you say, well, since you have 6 slots, you can get general A, general B, etc. Lan should be gotten around the American campaigns, which is why 3rd Corps urged him to get more campaign stars. The American campaigns and the earlier SNS ones should be plenty of time to get your last slot filler ranked up. If not, then conquest will do. It is impossible to play EW4 and beat it without doing conquest or buying a bunch of medals. Remember that I am not saying that Raevsky is better, Golitsyn is the best pure power machine in EW4. However, Pirke has already bought Raevsky and Raevsky has move trainer. To get Lan, in whichever campaign, you will need luck. To get Lan you will need a 5 star country, limiting you to 3 generals. There are not enough good generals for all the fronts (especially in HRE). Allies can sometimes be helpful, but they can also be harmful. |
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Post by pirke on Apr 14, 2017 16:40:06 GMT
Thank you guys to write a lot about I kind need it because I don't have much time to play and when I do it want it to be clean.
First I want to say rather will save Raevsky instead of getting Golitsyn. Don't have him in academy, this is mean more time to farm medals and refresh...
I hope Raevsky will be enough because I want to rank him more HP/Regen.
Do I have to buy +6 Defense and Attack Cav Item?
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Post by Louis-Alexandre Berthier on Apr 14, 2017 17:58:38 GMT
Thank you guys to write a lot about I kind need it because I don't have much time to play and when I do it want it to be clean. First I want to say rather will save Raevsky instead of getting Golitsyn. Don't have him in academy, this is mean more time to farm medals and refresh... I hope Raevsky will be enough because I want to rank him more HP/Regen. Do I have to buy +6 Defense and Attack Cav Item? It's best to have at least snare drum and warhorse. +6 attack Cav weapon is very highly recommended. |
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Post by pirke on Apr 15, 2017 10:48:58 GMT
Already have snare drum and warhorse, I'm now in middle of Coalition and Eagle camp for now see just +2 Items but will buy +6 attack and defense when Items show up.
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Post by Louis-Alexandre Berthier on Apr 15, 2017 18:39:17 GMT
There are no +6 defense items - and you don"t need them anyways.
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Post by 3rd Corps on Apr 17, 2017 2:53:30 GMT
I assume that imminently you'll be regrouping Kutaisov. There's no point in developing a third-string artillery-man with trainer skill just to have someone to put on a single-light. Now would be a good time to get Golitsyn. Raevsky can be a second-string cavalryman but doesn't strike me as a 30ish turn rusher and he'll be retired when you get Lan. Assuming you're doing HRE1798 for Lan, your western front cavalry general has to be top notch which translates into a "speedy killer". This is why you need either war-horse or saddle item (preferably both) and Golitsyn (+ snare drum). You don't need to deplete morale in Spain to finish that conquest in 30ish turns, but the alternative is to do a lot of two-turn takedowns (arrive/attack then attack/occupy). Given that depleting morale is a balance between remaining units and available resources, your only options are one tactic or the other and you need a general+items capable of executing them. Raevsky has the power to do it, with items. |
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Post by Banastre Tarleton on Apr 17, 2017 5:21:17 GMT
Raevsky may although he certainly wouldn't be my choice for a Lan rush.
As I mentioned, there are two outcomes on the western front of HRE, one is to quickly capture farms/trading cities to deplete Spanish and/or French morale. This is why Kanue's path is so specific and why a Sakoroku or Raevsky can complete this rush. This is also a "lucky" outcome, in my opinion, to get the balance between existing enemy forces and their resources correct. The other, more likely outcome is to have to battle/clean-up all the way to Cadiz in 30ish turns, and we'll have to agree to disagree that Raevsky is well-suited to that task. Also, if you only have two cavalry generals toward the end of the game, and one of them is named Raevsky, then you're really not in a good spot.
The issue of Raevsky aside, the reason I said that now would be a good time to get Golitsyn, is that as you noted in a previous post, Pirke has to nearly double his campaign stars. He's not even done the first two campaigns, and I can easily think of 20 scenarios between now and when he'll be at a point to rush for Lan that will be extremely challenging for his 3-general HQ as currently composed.
Whether he play 4-slots or 12, at this point he is in need of another cavalry general. If you exclude Lan then the list of A-flight cavalry generals is a mighty short one, and lord knows they'll be plenty of HQ re-rolls between now and Rise of America.
Hence my point that now would be a good time to consider getting Golitsyn. Unfortunately, this thread seem to have led him instead to searching for a cavalry pistol which at this point in the game for him is probably the least of his worries.
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Post by Louis-Alexandre Berthier on Apr 19, 2017 0:21:03 GMT
Raevsky may although he certainly wouldn't be my choice for a Lan rush. As I mentioned, there are two outcomes on the western front of HRE, one is to quickly capture farms/trading cities to deplete Spanish and/or French morale. This is why Kanue's path is so specific and why a Sakoroku or Raevsky can complete this rush. This is also a "lucky" outcome, in my opinion, to get the balance between existing enemy forces and their resources correct. The other, more likely outcome is to have to battle/clean-up all the way to Cadiz in 30ish turns, and we'll have to agree to disagree that Raevsky is well-suited to that task. Also, if you only have two cavalry generals toward the end of the game, and one of them is named Raevsky, then you're really not in a good spot. The issue of Raevsky aside, the reason I said that now would be a good time to get Golitsyn, is that as you noted in a previous post, Pirke has to nearly double his campaign stars. He's not even done the first two campaigns, and I can easily think of 20 scenarios between now and when he'll be at a point to rush for Lan that will be extremely challenging for his 3-general HQ as currently composed. Whether he play 4-slots or 12, at this point he is in need of another cavalry general. If you exclude Lan then the list of A-flight cavalry generals is a mighty short one, and lord knows they'll be plenty of HQ re-rolls between now and Rise of America. Hence my point that now would be a good time to consider getting Golitsyn. Unfortunately, this thread seem to have led him instead to searching for a cavalry pistol which at this point in the game for him is probably the least of his worries. But is it better to get Golitsyn now when he may have to regroup him later if he has 4-slots or even 5? Heck, Golitsyn may not even be needed if you have 4-slots. Isabella, Sophia, Lan, and Victoria are enough to beat this game. For now, let's say that he has 4 slots. After unlocking Lan, from what you propose, he will have Sophia, Isabella, Golitsyn, and Raevsky. In able to get Lan, he will have to regroup somebody. Who would he regroup? Princesses cannot be bought again, and Sophia is good because of explosive, spy, and siege master. Isabella should be the #1 artillery general. It is better to regroup Raevsky into Lan than to Isabella or Sophia. Isabella and Lan are usually gotten around the same time. Isabella should be brought in because of her infantry ability and her navy ability which will be helpful in the American campaigns and in SNS. Even if he has 5 slots, after having Isabella, Sophia, Lan, and Victoria, you need to train Lan. After training Lan, Sophia, Isabella, and (perhaps Victoria), that is the time to get Golitsyn. If he has already gotten Isabella, he should look for getting Lan, hence the cavalry pistol. |
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Post by Banastre Tarleton on Apr 19, 2017 4:00:45 GMT
Berthier, you’re combining several concepts into one and also confusing Isabella with Victoria (?) which makes your logic difficult to follow.
To clarify, Isabella and Lan are not usually obtained around the same time. He just recently obtained Isabella (she’s at 54/7 or so) and he still hasn’t completed the first two campaigns. Isabella has no infantry or navy ability to speak of (that’s Victoria), and yes VICTORIA and Lan are usually obtained around the same time, but evidence points to at least Lan if not both Lan/Victoria requiring significant campaign progress (about 220+/Rise of America) – as you noted in your own experience. I think you were misremembering your stars because 175 is low for Rise of America unless you’re just 3-starring everything, which of course isn’t recommended either because you’ll miss out on the emblem bonus.
But the fundamental point I was making is that he will find it very difficult to get to Rise of America with only Sophia, Isabela, and Raevsky – he needs another cavalry general now, not 2 ½ campaigns from now. Also, it’s challenging to get cavalry generals groomed (unless you do some serious farming) in the last two campaigns. Rise of America is only 10 scenarios long (excluding Great Sea Warfare) and half of SNS (also 10 scenarios) is naval – so it’s not like newly minted cavalry generals are going to go around killing a lot of warships for rank.
Moving on to the slot discussion. I obviously am not a proponent of recommending the 4-slot approach to anyone seeking answers on these boards. It is the most difficult way to try to play this game, and also not easily reversed once you go down that path. If you do try it and don’t have the chops to finish with 4-slots, then you’re screwed because you’ve probably regrouped princesses you’ll never get back but could use at that point, as well as set yourself up for a boatload of late-game farming to get additional generals conditioned. If a noob wants to try 4-slot play then more power to him/her but I view recommending that path to be borderline irresponsible.
Again, it’s a mildly-interesting discussion piece but I’ve seen more academic discussion of 4-slot completion of the game than actual evidence of people having done so. The approach that has some following is to train Sophia as your second cavalry, and go into land-scenarios with Lan #1 cav, Sophia as #2 cav / #2 artillery, Victoria as infantry, and Isabela as #1 artillery. A powerful lineup, but I don’t see that group as being enough in a few scenarios, Final Battle, just for starters. There is only so much that you can do tactically without survivability. Also, playing a lot of navy without Kate strikes me as a bone-headed thing to do.
HOWEVER, in the scenario that you describe with Isabela, Sophia, Raevsky, Golitsyn, and Lan waiting in the wings, then it doesn’t matter who you regroup Raevsky or Golitsyn into. One into the other perhaps and then into Lan. But then you’ll still have to rush for Victoria who will be green and with no one to group into her. In short, 4-slot play is awkward especially when the alternative is ponying up .99 cents.
But that decision is off in Pirkes future, and my concern is he won’t get an opportunity to reach that point unless he gets a second cavalry general, and if you believe that – and I assume he’s looking for Lan because he’s come to that realization himself – then why wouldn’t you get Golitsyn now, who is nearly (if not) Lan’s equal?
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