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Post by andrei on Jun 22, 2018 5:56:05 GMT
Hmm... A bit higher Karl's deff - not a big deal, a bit higher Karl's attack - not a big deal. Summary: Massena is better! Isn't it weird?  You appeal to Massena's skill for infantry. But ignore Karl's huge bonus from forrest (which is imo much better). What the real influence of the skill You appeal to on comparison to Karl's 25% boost (taking into account that his basic stats are better). Karl has 25% boost in forests. Ok. But what does this mean in practical terms? How strong should be the basic attack of the unit so that this boost could be better than Assault? Assault means 20 points of damage everywhere, plus Massena has other 20 points of damage when attaking cities, plus potentially other 6 points of attack (Inspiration). And the difference between Karl and Massena when we compare their defence is 1 or (at best) 2 points. Karl is deffinitely better only in forests when fighting against cavalry units and his survivability is slightly better (though I have no clue how good Ambush is) I don't think there are enough reasons to prefer him over Massena. Well. First of all forests. You see the missions, we are playing the same game  My Karl is always in forests. And he has no competition for this tile, like plain fighting gens. Maybe John, but he is a ranged attacker and won't compete for the forest tile nearby the enemy. Regarding real impact. Tech will be upgraded further with game update. Even now points and % is somewhat similar boost. With tech upgrade % will be more important. Attack against cities - arguable. You need several units to take the city anyway. I don't think it is a good skill. Personally I wouldn't upgrade it if I have Massena. Of course anyway situational Inspiration and Tunnel are OK as an additional advantage, but just like Karl's anticav skill. |
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Post by yuanzhong on Jun 22, 2018 6:10:36 GMT
Hmm... A bit higher Karl's deff - not a big deal, a bit higher Karl's attack - not a big deal. Summary: Massena is better! Isn't it weird? You appeal to Massena's skill for infantry. But ignore Karl's huge bonus from forrest (which is imo much better). What the real influence of the skill You appeal to on comparison to Karl's 25% boost (taking into account that his basic stats are better). Karl has 25% boost in forests. Ok. But what does this mean in practical terms? How strong should be the basic attack of the unit so that this boost could be better than Assault? Assault means 20 points of damage everywhere, plus Massena has other 20 points of damage when attaking cities, plus potentially other 6 points of attack (Inspiration). And the difference between Karl and Massena when we compare their defence is 1 or (at best) 2 points. Karl is deffinitely better only in forests when fighting against cavalry units and his survivability is slightly better (though I have no clue how good Ambush is) I don't think there are enough reasons to prefer him over Massena. As I said before, who's stronger is hard to say. But I think we just in middle of game, the more update we get the more advantage % buff than flat buff because the base stats of unit increase. We can easily see Massena is good because of assault and tunnel (both of them are flat buff). But let see Karl: Forest fighting: maximum 30% atk is not small number and probability your unit on Forest terrain ... high or low... it's depend on your opinion (IMO it's easy). Anti Cav: It's also easy to trigger because of update (I also think cav units are annoying and now they are spammable...). But the most important thing is your think "A girl is transformed into Xi Shi in the eyes of her lover" |
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Post by stoic on Jun 22, 2018 6:17:42 GMT
Karl has 25% boost in forests. Ok. But what does this mean in practical terms? How strong should be the basic attack of the unit so that this boost could be better than Assault? Assault means 20 points of damage everywhere, plus Massena has other 20 points of damage when attaking cities, plus potentially other 6 points of attack (Inspiration). And the difference between Karl and Massena when we compare their defence is 1 or (at best) 2 points. Karl is deffinitely better only in forests when fighting against cavalry units and his survivability is slightly better (though I have no clue how good Ambush is) I don't think there are enough reasons to prefer him over Massena. Well. First of all forests. You see the missions, we are playing the same game My Karl is always in forests. And he has no competition for this tile, like plain fighting gens. Maybe John, but he is a ranged attacker and won't compete for the forest tile nearby the enemy. Regarding real impact. Tech will be upgraded further with game update. Even now points and % is somewhat similar boost. With tech upgrade % will be more important. Attack against cities - arguable. You need several units to take the city anyway. I don't think it is a good skill. Personally I wouldn't upgrade it if I have Massena. Of course anyway situational Inspiration and Tunnel are OK as an additional advantage, but just like Karl's anticav skill. I don't say anything against forests I believe it is possible to find every ground you like in the game (well, most of the time ). But the question is: "Is really Karl better than Massena while fighting in forests". Well, if I understand correctly, right now he is not. We don't have any Inf unit with 100 points of attack. Well, we will have some upgrades for sure, and there is a possibility that percentage increase will be better than mere 20 points of damage, but we don't know it yet. I think that Tunnel is quite a good skill. We will take cities in the game at least as often as fighting cavalty in forests  (maybe even more often). And I'm surprised that you say nothing about Ambush. Is it good? Is it bad? |
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Post by stoic on Jun 22, 2018 6:21:45 GMT
Karl has 25% boost in forests. Ok. But what does this mean in practical terms? How strong should be the basic attack of the unit so that this boost could be better than Assault? Assault means 20 points of damage everywhere, plus Massena has other 20 points of damage when attaking cities, plus potentially other 6 points of attack (Inspiration). And the difference between Karl and Massena when we compare their defence is 1 or (at best) 2 points. Karl is deffinitely better only in forests when fighting against cavalry units and his survivability is slightly better (though I have no clue how good Ambush is) I don't think there are enough reasons to prefer him over Massena. As I said before, who's stronger is hard to say. But I think we just in middle of game, the more update we get the more advantage % buff than flat buff because the base stats of unit increase. We can easily see Massena is good because of assault and tunnel (both of them are flat buff). But let see Karl: Forest fighting: maximum 30% atk is not small number and probability your unit on Forest terrain ... high or low... it's depend on your opinion (IMO it's easy). Anti Cav: It's also easy to trigger because of update (I also think cav units are annoying and now they are spammable...). But the most important thing is your think "A girl is transformed into Xi Shi in the eyes of her lover" Well, actually 25% atk if you don't have another Inf Master (and as we choose between Karl and Massena, we presume that we don't have another one). ps And I suppose Xi Shi is a nice girl |
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Post by andrei on Jun 22, 2018 6:32:46 GMT
Well. First of all forests. You see the missions, we are playing the same game My Karl is always in forests. And he has no competition for this tile, like plain fighting gens. Maybe John, but he is a ranged attacker and won't compete for the forest tile nearby the enemy. Regarding real impact. Tech will be upgraded further with game update. Even now points and % is somewhat similar boost. With tech upgrade % will be more important. Attack against cities - arguable. You need several units to take the city anyway. I don't think it is a good skill. Personally I wouldn't upgrade it if I have Massena. Of course anyway situational Inspiration and Tunnel are OK as an additional advantage, but just like Karl's anticav skill. I don't say anything against forests I believe it is possible to find every ground you like in the game (well, most of the time ). But the question is: "Is really Karl better than Massena while fighting in forests". Well, if I understand correctly, right now he is not. We don't have any Inf unit with 100 points of attack. Well, we will have some upgrades for sure, and there is a possibility that percentage increase will be better than mere 20 points of damage, but we don't know it yet. I think that Tunnel is quite a good skill. We will take cities in the game at least as often as fighting cavalty in forests (maybe even more often). And I'm surprised that you say nothing about Ambush. Is it good? Is it bad? Karl fighting in forests is already better than Massena. No need to fight Cavalry. And he is always in forests. Why I do not compare other skills. Because You won't upgrade it early to see real difference. At the very end when maxed Ambush will probably be same good like critical strike, as survivability is same important as other aspects of the general's functionality. But for now - for most of the players - it is reasonable to compare critical skills, those to be upgraded immideately. There is no insurance that You will have enough medals to upgrade all the skills as You have many gens. As I said earlier in the beggining and mid-game most of the gens are more or less similar - there is almost no real difference. Those couple of damage points now is not an issue. I prefer to compare maxed gens with critically important skills. In EW5 I haven't upgraded all the skills of my gens - only most important. And I spent enormous amount of time in the game For example, for Karl I upgraded aura and terrain, Massena would be aura and master and... probably that's all till the very end of the game as there are other gens You need to buy and max important skills. |
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Post by stoic on Jun 22, 2018 6:42:44 GMT
Are you sure that he is better right now? Here is Massena 1806 in the forest near Moskow. 111 plus 20 points of damage (Assault). Is Karl better on the same ground?
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Post by stoic on Jun 22, 2018 6:52:52 GMT
For example, for Karl I upgraded aura and terrain, Massena would be aura and master and... probably that's all till the very end of the game as there are other gens You need to buy and max important skills. Well, if your generals are not so expensive, you can allow yourself more than that 
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Post by yuanzhong on Jun 22, 2018 7:24:40 GMT
Are you sure that he is better right now? Here is Massena 1806 in the forest near Moskow. 111 plus 20 points of damage (Assault). Is Karl better on the same ground?
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Post by yuanzhong on Jun 22, 2018 7:27:50 GMT
 With lvl 5 Jungle fighting. Wonder why my defence is lower than you @@! |
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Post by stoic on Jun 22, 2018 7:45:44 GMT
With lvl 5 Jungle fighting. Wonder why my defence is lower than you @@! Hahaha, strange indeed. I don't have any defence item And I presume my upgrades are as good as yours... Well, 111+20 flat damage vs. 134. Very close, but I have to agree, that Karl will have a slight advantage in the future (when in forests). |
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Post by andrei on Jun 22, 2018 7:49:10 GMT
Is he under morale boost?
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Post by xerexes on Jun 22, 2018 7:49:30 GMT
Just buy whatever general you like guys. You only want them for the aura right? |
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Post by stoic on Jun 22, 2018 7:51:28 GMT
Is he under morale boost? Nope, but strangely enough Massena has better defense  |
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Post by andrei on Jun 22, 2018 7:55:29 GMT
Is he under morale boost? Nope, but strangely enough Massena has better defense We definetely do not know something about deff mechanics. |
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Post by stoic on Jun 22, 2018 8:01:54 GMT
Just buy whatever general you like guys. You only want them for the aura right? Who knows, maybe even a minor detail will be decisive in the future |
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(maybe even more often). And I'm surprised that you say nothing about Ambush. Is it good? Is it bad? 
