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Post by yuanzhong on Jul 29, 2019 0:52:00 GMT
The more I think about it, the more bato seems to be the better option over vercingetorix. To that you might say “isn’t it cheaper to buy verci as he is a general whereas bato is a legatus, saving you ~245 medals.” Thats definitely true. But remember, Bato has lvl 3 ambush whereas Verci only level 2, that alone costs 35 x 4 = 140 medals to fix. So the medal difference between Bato and verci is 105 medals in favor for ver. Furthermore, Bato has the potential to outrun Vercingetorix by at least a hex if you upgrade his march by one ability and give him the flag. As they have essentially the same talent (both are useless) and survivability, you are pretty much trading roar and jungle for march. Ver lack’s the mobility, especially on heavy infantry, to be given a golden ring for his roar skill, which is the reason why most players use “oration on him.” If you plan on doing this, than by all means get ver. However, for others, that may seem like a huge pain that isn’t worth the trade off to add one more hex of movement (myself included, its too tedious for me) So when it comes down to it, its jungle vs march. Personally, I think that march is a bit better as you will get a general who is faster and good at soaking up damage. While jungles are common, you will have a hard time finding them in areas such as the desert. Plus since bato has ambush, he’ll most likely end up taking less casualties than his foe in most scenarios. Imo here Batonwins. Finally, many players like the idea of buying crassus and pompey. Bato will compliment them much better than ver as he is as fast as them potentially. You will most likely want to give your pf flag to pompey, as he is the only notable general in the game (except Labienus) who possesses pf as his bonus. It will work better for pompey to have additional damage. As crassus will most likely have the siege + tunnel flag, this would be a perfect addition to bato’s skill set. I personally feel for this reason, it is smarter to buy Bato over Vercingetorix. With lvl 4 ambush, lvl 5 shield wall and March, Bato will be a very strong general on your team. It depends on many factors to say who's better, especially when you have a team, not a single general. Bato is Pompey lite (more defend but less attack, and nearly useless talent). When you have Pompey, I don't think you also need Bato (also remember that March scroll cost 45 medals, not cheap; and you need 6 scrolls more to get additional movement hex for him), and Verci is better choice IMO. Pompey is better candidate for March/Shield wall Banner. About Verci and Pompey, it's a story between Speed and Strength + Survivability, your play style decide which is better. I use Lauren crown for Verci and can swap to Gallic book when I want increase his movement range. (You almost never have maximum movement range of unit because of terrain, so use Gallic book also be a method to increase movement in general-althout it's a bit unstable method  ) Both Gallic book and Lauren crown are immediately effect items. So, I don't think Bato is a great general, because the huge shadow of his senior, Pompey. I don't think compare him with Verci and use speed as most priority factor for evaluation is fair to Verci, they follow different styles. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Jul 29, 2019 2:24:43 GMT
The more I think about it, the more bato seems to be the better option over vercingetorix. To that you might say “isn’t it cheaper to buy verci as he is a general whereas bato is a legatus, saving you ~245 medals.” Thats definitely true. But remember, Bato has lvl 3 ambush whereas Verci only level 2, that alone costs 35 x 4 = 140 medals to fix. So the medal difference between Bato and verci is 105 medals in favor for ver. Furthermore, Bato has the potential to outrun Vercingetorix by at least a hex if you upgrade his march by one ability and give him the flag. As they have essentially the same talent (both are useless) and survivability, you are pretty much trading roar and jungle for march. Ver lack’s the mobility, especially on heavy infantry, to be given a golden ring for his roar skill, which is the reason why most players use “oration on him.” If you plan on doing this, than by all means get ver. However, for others, that may seem like a huge pain that isn’t worth the trade off to add one more hex of movement (myself included, its too tedious for me) So when it comes down to it, its jungle vs march. Personally, I think that march is a bit better as you will get a general who is faster and good at soaking up damage. While jungles are common, you will have a hard time finding them in areas such as the desert. Plus since bato has ambush, he’ll most likely end up taking less casualties than his foe in most scenarios. Imo here Batonwins. Finally, many players like the idea of buying crassus and pompey. Bato will compliment them much better than ver as he is as fast as them potentially. You will most likely want to give your pf flag to pompey, as he is the only notable general in the game (except Labienus) who possesses pf as his bonus. It will work better for pompey to have additional damage. As crassus will most likely have the siege + tunnel flag, this would be a perfect addition to bato’s skill set. I personally feel for this reason, it is smarter to buy Bato over Vercingetorix. With lvl 4 ambush, lvl 5 shield wall and March, Bato will be a very strong general on your team. It depends on many factors to say who's better, especially when you have a team, not a single general. Bato is Pompey lite (more defend but less attack, and nearly useless talent). When you have Pompey, I don't think you also need Bato (also remember that March scroll cost 45 medals, not cheap; and you need 6 scrolls more to get additional movement hex for him), and Verci is better choice IMO. Pompey is better candidate for March/Shield wall Banner. About Verci and Pompey, it's a story between Speed and Strength + Survivability, your play style decide which is better. I use Lauren crown for Verci and can swap to Gallic book when I want increase his movement range. (You almost never have maximum movement range of unit because of terrain, so use Gallic book also be a method to increase movement in general-althout it's a bit unstable method ) Both Gallic book and Lauren crown are immediately effect items. So, I don't think Bato is a great general, because the huge shadow of his senior, Pompey. I don't think compare him with Verci and use speed as most priority factor for evaluation is fair to Verci, they follow different styles. I’d agree, but remember to consider that you can only buy one pompey (unless you make your infantry general have the same skills as pompey). Kind of like in wc3 when people quickly disregarded useful generals. For example “timoshenko is a worthless general because guderian exists. He is so much better!” Everyone knows pompey is better than bato, but you can’t really clone pompey. That raises the question who to buy after pompey is the point I am trying to make. But with that point across, I do agree with what you are saying. Imagine the gallic war book be better given to bato. I mean think of how fast he could move with it! The argument I am basically trying to make is that bato could he a good replacement for vercingetorix. Pompey and Bato are essentially polar opposites so one can’t really replace the other. And unless you want to beat the game with only one infantry general. You will need more infantry generals on your team. |
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Post by yuanzhong on Jul 29, 2019 2:47:09 GMT
It depends on many factors to say who's better, especially when you have a team, not a single general. Bato is Pompey lite (more defend but less attack, and nearly useless talent). When you have Pompey, I don't think you also need Bato (also remember that March scroll cost 45 medals, not cheap; and you need 6 scrolls more to get additional movement hex for him), and Verci is better choice IMO. Pompey is better candidate for March/Shield wall Banner. About Verci and Pompey, it's a story between Speed and Strength + Survivability, your play style decide which is better. I use Lauren crown for Verci and can swap to Gallic book when I want increase his movement range. (You almost never have maximum movement range of unit because of terrain, so use Gallic book also be a method to increase movement in general-althout it's a bit unstable method ) Both Gallic book and Lauren crown are immediately effect items. So, I don't think Bato is a great general, because the huge shadow of his senior, Pompey. I don't think compare him with Verci and use speed as most priority factor for evaluation is fair to Verci, they follow different styles. I’d agree, but remember to consider that you can only buy one pompey (unless you make your infantry general have the same skills as pompey). Kind of like in wc3 when people quickly disregarded useful generals. For example “timoshenko is a worthless general because guderian exists. He is so much better!” Everyone knows pompey is better than bato, but you can’t really clone pompey. That raises the question who to buy after pompey is the point I am trying to make. But with that point across, I do agree with what you are saying. Imagine the gallic war book be better given to bato. I mean think of how fast he could move with it! The argument I am basically trying to make is that bato could he a good replacement for vercingetorix. Pompey and Bato are essentially polar opposites so one can’t really replace the other. And unless you want to beat the game with only one infantry general. You will need more infantry generals on your team. When I need a teamate for Pompey, I use Crassus Verci goes with Spartacus and/or Archer team to form solid team. For speedy team, Crassus is better choice while he can deal with cities (Like Guderian + Patton team in WC3, it's less effective when you have a good gen and his lite than have 2 gens who can cover other weakness) I usually use Pompey, Crassus, Antony, Hannibal, Huo (any cav gens) for speedy team. If I want to use solid team with Archer, I use Spartacus and Verci as Infantry gens. |
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Post by dsongop on Jul 29, 2019 11:42:48 GMT
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Jul 29, 2019 12:17:39 GMT
I’d agree, but remember to consider that you can only buy one pompey (unless you make your infantry general have the same skills as pompey). Kind of like in wc3 when people quickly disregarded useful generals. For example “timoshenko is a worthless general because guderian exists. He is so much better!” Everyone knows pompey is better than bato, but you can’t really clone pompey. That raises the question who to buy after pompey is the point I am trying to make. But with that point across, I do agree with what you are saying. Imagine the gallic war book be better given to bato. I mean think of how fast he could move with it! The argument I am basically trying to make is that bato could he a good replacement for vercingetorix. Pompey and Bato are essentially polar opposites so one can’t really replace the other. And unless you want to beat the game with only one infantry general. You will need more infantry generals on your team. When I need a teamate for Pompey, I use Crassus Verci goes with Spartacus and/or Archer team to form solid team. For speedy team, Crassus is better choice while he can deal with cities (Like Guderian + Patton team in WC3, it's less effective when you have a good gen and his lite than have 2 gens who can cover other weakness) I usually use Pompey, Crassus, Antony, Hannibal, Huo (any cav gens) for speedy team. If I want to use solid team with Archer, I use Spartacus and Verci as Infantry gens. True, Crassus is a great choice as well for the 2nd infantry commander. |
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Post by kingbutawl on Jul 29, 2019 17:52:21 GMT
and btw you can clone Pompey and even making a better version just setting : infantry commander , shield wall , roar and plain fighting .
The free general has great mobility by his own and shouldn't need another mobility skill , unless you want "an Antony" in infantry .
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Post by Reinhard Von Lohengramm on Jul 29, 2019 18:01:00 GMT
kingbutawl, technically, is the same. The same mobility (or less) the same skills (roar max is 25% and pompey talent + crossbow is 25%.)
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Post by kingbutawl on Jul 29, 2019 19:15:43 GMT
kingbutawl, technically, is the same. The same mobility (or less) the same skills (roar max is 25% and pompey talent + crossbow is 25%.) Yeah , he's the same plus he can get that shiny +5 of attack of the ninth star that Pompey doesn't have |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Jul 29, 2019 19:53:28 GMT
and btw you can clone Pompey and even making a better version just setting : infantry commander , shield wall , roar and plain fighting . The free general has great mobility by his own and shouldn't need another mobility skill , unless you want "an Antony" in infantry . I cloned crassus : ) Pf + Siege lvl 3 + Tunnel lvl 2 + infantry commander (I have the flag to boost tunnel and siege) *well he is as strong as pompey against common units and better than crassus against cities this way, same speed as the both* That way, the guy gets + 50 base damage just from his barely upgraded skills and other bonuses from his base stats. But you are right, you can make your free general better than even hannibal. By the way, have you guys thought about making your free commander an archer city cracker with siege, pf or jungle, besiege, and archer commander. Or would that be less effective than infantry or cavarly crackers? |
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Post by kingbutawl on Jul 29, 2019 21:40:27 GMT
and btw you can clone Pompey and even making a better version just setting : infantry commander , shield wall , roar and plain fighting . The free general has great mobility by his own and shouldn't need another mobility skill , unless you want "an Antony" in infantry . I cloned crassus : ) Pf + Siege lvl 3 + Tunnel lvl 2 + infantry commander (I have the flag to boost tunnel and siege) *well he is as strong as pompey against common units and better than crassus against cities this way, same speed as the both* That way, the guy gets + 50 base damage just from his barely upgraded skills and other bonuses from his base stats. But you are right, you can make your free general better than even hannibal. By the way, have you guys thought about making your free commander an archer city cracker with siege, pf or jungle, besiege, and archer commander. Or would that be less effective than infantry or cavarly crackers? I have a feeling that infantry does more damage to cities than archers , but I could be wrong . I think plain fighting is more usefull , even if jungle boogie makes you deal 7 damages (I think ) more than the first skill. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Jul 29, 2019 22:43:30 GMT
I cloned crassus : ) Pf + Siege lvl 3 + Tunnel lvl 2 + infantry commander (I have the flag to boost tunnel and siege) *well he is as strong as pompey against common units and better than crassus against cities this way, same speed as the both* That way, the guy gets + 50 base damage just from his barely upgraded skills and other bonuses from his base stats. But you are right, you can make your free general better than even hannibal. By the way, have you guys thought about making your free commander an archer city cracker with siege, pf or jungle, besiege, and archer commander. Or would that be less effective than infantry or cavarly crackers? I have a feeling that infantry does more damage to cities than archers , but I could be wrong . I think plain fighting is more usefull , even if jungle boogie makes you deal 7 damages (I think ) more than the first skill. Actually its not that much. Lvl 4 jungle - 20 damage, lvl 4 plain - 16 damage. 4-5 damage lost at most. Its just a cheaper skill to upgrade. I agree. Plus they sometimes have archers defending cities. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 2:25:50 GMT
Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus, mine is one with siege, archer commander, March and advantage. Siege is only lvl 2, so he doesn't hit as hard as Crassus against cities. Archers deal the same damage as infantry or cavalry as city crackers, although they deal less against defenders except against archers. His role is to soften up cities and damage the garrisons there while a cavalry commander of mine can slaughter the defender and have a unit capture the city. Also, being speedy Gonzales, he can move from one city to another without any problem. Downside is his lack of defenses and hp, which at times makes me regret making him an archer, but most of the time, criting against city defenders and attacking 4 times in a row to destroy a city 5 is worth seeing 
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Jul 30, 2019 2:29:37 GMT
Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus, mine is one with siege, archer commander, March and advantage. Siege is only lvl 2, so he doesn't hit as hard as Crassus against cities. Archers deal the same damage as infantry or cavalry as city crackers, although they deal less against defenders except against archers. His role is to soften up cities and damage the garrisons there while a cavalry commander of mine can slaughter the defender and have a unit capture the city. Also, being speedy Gonzales, he can move from one city to another without any problem. Downside is his lack of defenses and hp, which at times makes me regret making him an archer, but most of the time, criting against city defenders and attacking 4 times in a row to destroy a city 5 is worth seeing Nice. Does advantage (critting in general) work against cities, or does he deal about the same damage each time |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 5:47:48 GMT
Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus , mine is one with siege, archer commander, March and advantage. Siege is only lvl 2, so he doesn't hit as hard as Crassus against cities. Archers deal the same damage as infantry or cavalry as city crackers, although they deal less against defenders except against archers. His role is to soften up cities and damage the garrisons there while a cavalry commander of mine can slaughter the defender and have a unit capture the city. Also, being speedy Gonzales, he can move from one city to another without any problem. Downside is his lack of defenses and hp, which at times makes me regret making him an archer, but most of the time, criting against city defenders and attacking 4 times in a row to destroy a city 5 is worth seeing Nice. Does advantage (critting in general) work against cities, or does he deal about the same damage each time Same damage i think. Although i noticed that it does more damage when it does crit against the defender in the city, so basically if there's a defender and it crits, more damage to city. Never crits when i hit the city without defenders though. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Jul 30, 2019 18:58:11 GMT
Say what you want about pacorus I, but I am replaying the game without him or pompey and it is way harder.
I am guessing especially for people who made no inapp purchases or bought like 1 iap, he is a must buy
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) Both Gallic book and Lauren crown are immediately effect items.
