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Post by Amazing on Apr 2, 2021 16:16:32 GMT
So there have been too many threads derailed by this debate so I thought I'd put a clean one to let everything vote on who their Heavy Tank General is and not derail other threads. (Since other Monty/Roko/Vatutin topics didn't have a poll) Let me start by firstly stating that in fact all 3 generals are viable and in actual fact there is no correct answer, just a wrong one if you choose Timoshenko, and that this is in fact just an opinion poll and as such who someone thinks is the best is very playstyle dependent. With that being said, lets try and be civil. The Conditions/Parameters- You can base your opinion of whatever reasoning you want. The only conditions for this poll is you need to put this general on a Heavy Tank and he is will be equipped with a Max Katyusha with a Tank Tech Lvl 6 since late campaigns are probably will contribute your greatest weightage in terms of opinions towards this debate. If you're not at that stage, feel free to see point one but also feel free to mention what conditions you are basing this opinion on to help others on the boards. This is an opinion poll with facts up to 1945 Pacific. You are free to change your opinion when Antarctica but its not a speculation thread. Some Technical Facts. - Patton: Look, we all know he is the Allied best Medium Tank because Blitzkrieg. You probably are not going to put him on a Heavy because of a Silver Panzer Leader but if you do because you like Accuracy Strike and having Mobility +3, go for it. Vatutin: He does the most damage (87-102 Base) (114-133 on Inf) (97-114 on Tanks). He is the slowest (0 Mobility). Desperate is also really bad. Roko: He does the least damage (70-85 Base) (91-111 on Inf) (86-105 on Tanks). Panzer Gold is a 24% chance to attack again. Silver Machinist also helps if you are bad at positioning and need to replenish. Monty: He is the hybrid between Roko & Vatutin in terms of damage (75-90 Base) (97-117 on Inf) (75-90 on Tanks). Again Panzer Gold is a 24% chance to attack again. Gold Machinist helps even more if you are bad at positioning. Ace Force is just useless given the parameters. Timoshenko: He is free. Can't be that bad. You are wrong if you vote him. Unless you think a Silver Armored Assault is OP. In which case go ahead. Please note that these are the damages they will do if you hit a unit with 0 defense. I just listed the raw base damage since the defense of an enemy unit varies hugely. Every level of defense takes away 5 damage, so the raw numbers you see are not what you will get in the game. To reference, Armored Cars at 45 start with a Defense of 6, Medium Tanks at 45 start with a Defense of 8 and depending on the terrain adds or decreased defense (Towns add 1 Defense, Rivers are -2, Mountains are +1 etc). Some Special Forces also adds defense but you already knew that. Having said that, Feel Free to Vote and Start the Discussion but please let me reinterate again that it really is an opinion poll and that all 3 generals are in fact S tier or A+ tier and the difference between them is so close that there really isn't a wrong answer. --- My Own Thoughts I think this comes down to a Tide of Iron vs Panzer Leader debate, you will favor Vatutin if you want the pure raw damage & you will favor Monty/Roko if you like the 24% chance to attack again. Monty and Roko comes down to the personal preference of do you like doing more damage specifically to armor of more damage to infantry/arty/boats. This part which lets you choose the general you want is playstyle dependent and I think its what makes us love this game.  Have Fun debating ^^ PS. If my Maths is wrong, please correct me as I am not sure I fully understand the calculations. |
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Post by andrei on Apr 2, 2021 16:35:08 GMT
AmazingHere is the damage formula in case You missed the thread.
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Post by stoic on Apr 2, 2021 18:25:05 GMT
Here are my thoughts...
I think Patton might be the worst allied Heavy tank Commander. Blitzkrieg is a great skill against other heavy tanks, but most of the time it is not the best idea to be involved in one-on-one duels with AI's generals. In all other situations BK is either useless (against Infantry, armored cars, medium tanks) or situational at best (against light artillery and ships).
I still haven't a final opinion on Accuracy, but so far I am not impressed. As we see, AI can spam SF without any limits, so the best way is to kill a unit not a SF. I guess it is of some value, but I can't see how I could make any use of it.
Patton has only a weaker version of PL and hasn't any bonuses against armored units.
His speed is great but it is nullified to some extent, because KV-6 and T28 already have an excellent speed (3 and 4 mobility bonus respectively). Because of a fog of war we can't explore the map at will. Moreover I would prefer that my heavy tanks are reinforced with Artillery and Infantry units when they fight.
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Post by Amazing on Apr 3, 2021 2:49:21 GMT
Here are my thoughts... I think Patton might be the worst allied Heavy tank Commander. Blitzkrieg is a great skill against other heavy tanks, but most of the time it is not the best idea to be involved in one-on-one duels with AI's generals. In all other situations BK is either useless (against Infantry, armored cars, medium tanks) or situational at best (against light artillery and ships). I still haven't a final opinion on Accuracy, but so far I am not impressed. As we see, AI can spam SF without any limits, so the best way is to kill a unit not a SF. I guess it is of some value, but I can't see how I could make any use of it. Patton has only a weaker version of PL and hasn't any bonuses against armored units. His speed is great but it is nullified to some extent, because KV-6 and T28 already have an excellent speed (3 and 4 mobility bonus respectively). Because of a fog of war we can't explore the map at will. Moreover I would prefer that my heavy tanks are reinforced with Artillery and Infantry units when they fight. I completely agree. Patton is not a Heavy Tank Commander. Blitzkrieg is a really a Medium Tank Skill. Him being in the poll was an alternative option, I didn't actually think him or Timo would get votes. Having said that, whoever voted for Patton and Timo, please explain yourself. I would like to know your reasonings |
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Post by andrei on Apr 3, 2021 7:14:53 GMT
Voted for Roko. But my first allied tanker was Monty. As I understood that there will be a long grind time in the Army group mode with medium tanks and gold Machinist is more useful in this mode. Oh yes, I disagree with stoic and Amazing that Machinist is weak or only good when You are bad with generals' placement. Tanks are always on the frontline anyway and will receive damage while being attacked. And to maintain high HP is important as formation coefficient is such a valuable part of the damage formula. It is of course stronger skill with medium tanks but very good with heavy tank as well. Moreover, You can replenish heavy tank in any factory but can only buy another unit in heavy plant only. So, it is better to keep You heavy tank replenished in time. |
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Post by stoic on Apr 3, 2021 8:57:12 GMT
Voted for Roko. But my first allied tanker was Monty. As I understood that there will be a long grind time in the Army group mode with medium tanks and gold Machinist is more useful in this mode. Oh yes, I disagree with stoic and Amazing that Machinist is weak or only good when You are bad with generals' placement. Tanks are always on the frontline anyway and will receive damage while being attacked. And to maintain high HP is important as formation coefficient is such a valuable part of the damage formula. It is of course stronger skill with medium tanks but very good with heavy tank as well. Moreover, You can replenish heavy tank in any factory but can only buy another unit in heavy plant only. So, it is better to keep You heavy tank replenished in time. I can't say it is bad or weak. I just noticed that I don't do this often: either I have enough resources to add an additional unit, or I don't need it because the damage is tolerable, or I have other priorities, or I have enough gold and desire to replenish my Heavy tank but there isn't any factory nearby So, I guess, it is a good skill when you have an opportunity, but too many things should happen... |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Apr 3, 2021 15:39:24 GMT
I feel like Montgomery might be the better choice for KV-6. The biggest perk of KV-6 is the ability to clear the mobs, and a mob is usually formed by mostly infantry. Montgomery has a slight edge over Rokossovsky when it comes to infantry. Rokossovsky might be better off cracking the tough nuts on T-29. Since our top priority for allied tank is a KV-6 general, my vote goes to Montgomery.
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Post by eeeeef on Apr 3, 2021 15:50:13 GMT
I'm pleasantly surprised that Monty dominated this poll despite being dunked on in the overrated generals poll.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Apr 3, 2021 15:58:12 GMT
I'm pleasantly surprised that Monty dominated this poll despite being dunked on in the overrated generals poll. Probably because people buy him first and find him to be a lousy general compared to Rommel, but there's hardly a better choice (the no.2s on the most overrated list). And now easytech just declared death sentence to Vatutin (and Slim) with the new update. |
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Post by HangryBird on Apr 3, 2021 17:28:14 GMT
I'm pleasantly surprised that Monty dominated this poll despite being dunked on in the overrated generals poll. Probably because people buy him first and find him to be a lousy general compared to Rommel, but there's hardly a better choice (the no.2s on the most overrated list). And now easytech just declared death sentence to Vatutin (and Slim) with the new update. Voted for Monty because of the same reason as you. But, I think it's an exaggeration to say that Vatutin and Slim having one less upgrade star is a death sentence for them. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Apr 4, 2021 3:22:47 GMT
Probably because people buy him first and find him to be a lousy general compared to Rommel, but there's hardly a better choice (the no.2s on the most overrated list). And now easytech just declared death sentence to Vatutin (and Slim) with the new update. Voted for Monty because of the same reason as you. But, I think it's an exaggeration to say that Vatutin and Slim having one less upgrade star is a death sentence for them. I think 15% hp matters a lot. As an ex-Slim supporter, I now have to admit that MacArthur is the better pick. There's no way I'm getting Vasilevsky though. |
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Post by Michel Ney , Prince of Moscova on Apr 4, 2021 8:56:25 GMT
Monty on kv6 is good
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Post by Port on Apr 4, 2021 11:20:06 GMT
I'm pleasantly surprised that Monty dominated this poll despite being dunked on in the overrated generals poll. Probably because people buy him first and find him to be a lousy general compared to Rommel, but there's hardly a better choice (the no.2s on the most overrated list). And now easytech just declared death sentence to Vatutin (and Slim) with the new update. No they have not Vatutin becomes a turtle that’s all. |
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Post by Port on Apr 4, 2021 11:20:43 GMT
Probably because people buy him first and find him to be a lousy general compared to Rommel, but there's hardly a better choice (the no.2s on the most overrated list). And now easytech just declared death sentence to Vatutin (and Slim) with the new update. No they have not Vatutin becomes a turtle that’s all. And is much cheaper to maintain as well.  |
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Post by Amazing on Apr 6, 2021 15:05:33 GMT
I think after the new update / challenge mode, this debate should actually swing the other way. Imo, Vatutin is now easily better than Roko & Monty cause being able to kill off units matters SO much more and movement is meaningless. Also, you would pick Rommel 100 out of 100 times over Monty and 95 times out of 100. Also in terms of promoting the generals ... gooooood luck farming the medals or spending a bunch of money |
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