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Post by jonblend on Mar 30, 2022 20:40:20 GMT
updated to include the most recent changes -cure expert/master now heal up to 150/230 HP with a different skill progression -formation expert/master have increased multipliers of up to 230% -King Arthur gets friendliness bonuses thank you dain for providing the bonuses and for pointing out the changed skills |
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massena
Major
prince d’Essling and star of ew6 ;)
Posts: 184
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Post by massena on Apr 18, 2022 13:25:08 GMT
(Almost) everything you need to know about a general's stats, skills and abilities at their highest level.  , Friendliness, Upgrade costs and Abilities are covered in separate threads with more details.
I hope it's pretty self-explanatory, however just to be safe :
-The order in which I put them is archer (green) infantry (brown) cavalry (orange) and artillery (red). Within each category, availability (early->late)and price (low->high) is applied. For princess like generals (Joan, Barbarossa, Saladin etc.), I used my game progress as a reference.
-The first column shows the generals' category (archer, infantry, cavalry, artillery) as well as when (eras I - VII) and how to recruit them. Recruitment costs and their currency (free/coin/resources/medals/IAP) are also provided.
-Next is the cumulative medal cost to reach VII (or 5 silver stars or super troops etc.) which I believe to be a good metric for determining how expensive a general is. Here you can see how it's calculated link
-Then I took the liberty to add up all the medals you could invest into a general (recruitment+upgrades+maxing all skills). This might not be too useful because most generals don't need all skills maxed in order to perform well. If you want to do your own calculations with lower skill levels then here you find the prices link
-Next are each generals' skills and abilities at VII as well as Bismarck at V. A short description is also provided. I hope it is enough for veterans, if you just came to EW5 then you'd probably want more details on skills (description or their effect for each level -> link ). Abilities sometimes change with different eras, here you can see how link
-The last 11 columns show the generals' max stats when corresponding skills and friendliness are also maxed. The value in brackets (+xxx) is the stat bonus from VI -> VII, so you can make a better decision whether the last upgrade is worth the medals. Of course, you can calculate stats for not maxed skills link
-When looking at these bonuses (+xxx) we can determine the Growth Rates of each general. This will help in future updates  to calculate stats without having to rely on a certain youtuber 
-Generally, we can see that the VII update made stronger generals even stronger stat-wise and that infantry, cavalry and archers got buffed but the increased counterattack damage for artillery is mediocre at best.
-awakening any of the following generals will always increase their stats by a fixed amount (independent from when you do the awakening). Their growth rate stays the same.
Hua Mulan: +210 HP; +40 atk;+25 def; +1 move
Suroyothai: +350 HP; +60 atk; +50 def; +2 move
Beowulf: +300 HP; +60 atk; +40 def; +1 move
Leonidas: +350 HP; +45 atk; +50 def; +1 move
Pachacuti: +205 HP; +60 atk; +30 def; +1 move
And some fun fact: If we add the "medals to 100% max" for all generals, we arrive at: 521,925 medals with IAPs and 456,755 medals without.
If we look at the costs for artifacts and equipment, that's:
96,295 for everything the shops have to offer or 52,005 for legendary and artifacts only. So, 618,220 is the max amount of medals you need for a "perfect" game with IAPs and 553,050 for F2P
[The recent update allowed for 85,210 (IAP) / 64,300 (F2P) extra medals to be spent.]
Now for F2P, ~700 medals can be gained per day, so 791 days (2 years and 2 months) are necessary to reach a "perfect" game file.  Rumors have it that Iron Duke 's master account would meet such criteria.
Please excuse me, I am not able to open the link that allows me access to the full size table. The website denies my entry. I would be grateful if you would look into the matter. Thank you |
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Post by visiel on Jul 4, 2022 13:33:01 GMT
jonblend, Hi bro, Nelson in Archer data is wrong. His first passive skill is Navigation, not leadership. Nice and useful graph overall. If I spot anything else, will let you know 
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Post by jonblend on Jul 9, 2022 11:34:38 GMT
jonblend , Hi bro, Nelson in Archer data is wrong. His first passive skill is Navigation, not leadership. Nice and useful graph overall. If I spot anything else, will let you know Ah, the dangers of copy pasting thanks for being this thorough. I recently noticed that Caesar's cure master can go up to 270 HP/turn. (this happened after my testings so I just included the new values without confirming them) Do you know if it's the same for Moctezuma? and was this a recent change or did it come with the unit trail update? |
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Post by blueberry on Jul 9, 2022 12:01:03 GMT
jonblend , Hi bro, Nelson in Archer data is wrong. His first passive skill is Navigation, not leadership. Nice and useful graph overall. If I spot anything else, will let you know Ah, the dangers of copy pasting thanks for being this thorough. I recently noticed that Caesar's cure master can go up to 270 HP/turn. (this happened after my testings so I just included the new values without confirming them) Do you know if it's the same for Moctezuma? and was this a recent change or did it come with the unit trail update? Yes, it came with the Ust-Nera update. Both cure master and expert got buffed. Check this post |
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Post by visiel on Jul 9, 2022 23:28:59 GMT
jonblend, Thanks for updating the graphs. Like blueberry said, it's 270 HP/turn for Cure Master. Cure expert I believe will be 150. At level 8 it gives 100 HP/turn (previously lv 10 effect before Ust-Nera update).
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Post by jonblend on Jul 10, 2022 21:02:53 GMT
jonblend , Thanks for updating the graphs. Like blueberry said, it's 270 HP/turn for Cure Master. Cure expert I believe will be 150. At level 8 it gives 100 HP/turn (previously lv 10 effect before Ust-Nera update). tbh I didn't update them since a few days after the Ust-Nera update when I got some info on the changed skills and still had enough medals to test a few key stages of upgrading them. My plan back then was to wait for another re-upload of screenshots until I have all the data on King Arthur (skill and abilities, maybe some confirmed upgrade costs). Now I'm not sure if 230 <-> 270 and Nelson's skill is enough to justify the effort, though it bugs me a lot to have false information floating around  |
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Post by YDE on Jul 15, 2022 4:43:58 GMT
I have two questions, one pertaining to Bismarck, the other about the looks of troops.
1. While everyone else gets to silver star, Bismarck stays at 5 star. Do you think with this new update, Bismarck should be upgraded to silver star, or does his Destroy perk outweigh the added stat buff and anti-calvarly. I know it's different for every team, but let's take the example of Bismarck and Cleo (Cleo at red star and above). Those two are a pretty common pair.
2. The new ability to change the general's troop looks is pretty cool. Having Nobunaga revert to his Ashigarus is really cool to have (IMO), while others like Cleo getting catapult is just ridiculous lmao but this is my question: So Calvarly's troop change sometimes reverts their tanks to actually horses (elephants for a few), right? And we know as HP falls, attack as well (ex: for every infantry unit you lose in the army, the attack drops). Does attack drop for silver star generals that revert to horses follow the same code as normal horse units, or does it stick with the code of the two tanks? If you're not getting my meaning, let me try another way.
2 tanks: Max attack. Loss of one tank: half attack
3 Horses: Max attack. Loss of one calvarly: -1/3 attack. Loss of two calvarly: -2/3 attack (correct me if I'm wrong)
If I revert a silver star general's troops to horses, does the attack debuff follow the rule of calvarly or of tanks?
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Post by blueberry on Jul 15, 2022 6:59:48 GMT
I have two questions, one pertaining to Bismarck, the other about the looks of troops. 1. While everyone else gets to silver star, Bismarck stays at 5 star. Do you think with this new update, Bismarck should be upgraded to silver star, or does his Destroy perk outweigh the added stat buff and anti-calvarly. I know it's different for every team, but let's take the example of Bismarck and Cleo (Cleo at red star and above). Those two are a pretty common pair. 2. The new ability to change the general's troop looks is pretty cool. Having Nobunaga revert to his Ashigarus is really cool to have (IMO), while others like Cleo getting catapult is just ridiculous lmao but this is my question: So Calvarly's troop change sometimes reverts their tanks to actually horses (elephants for a few), right? And we know as HP falls, attack as well (ex: for every infantry unit you lose in the army, the attack drops). Does attack drop for silver star generals that revert to horses follow the same code as normal horse units, or does it stick with the code of the two tanks? If you're not getting my meaning, let me try another way. 2 tanks: Max attack. Loss of one tank: half attack 3 Horses: Max attack. Loss of one calvarly: -1/3 attack. Loss of two calvarly: -2/3 attack (correct me if I'm wrong) If I revert a silver star general's troops to horses, does the attack debuff follow the rule of calvarly or of tanks? 1. Bismarck is still better at lvl 5, his stats don't improve much. 2. I like changing troops, too. I did it for the units I like to see: Nobunaga (ashigaru), Saladin (mamluks), Mulan (chu-ko-nu), Robin Hood (longbowmen), Alexander (hoplite), Suriyothai (mahout), Li Shimin (fire dragon). But it's expensive and you should do it only in endgame, when you have medals to waste. As regards the correlation between number of troops in appearance and damage, it's more complicated than this. Damage decreases even before losing one of the two tanks. Maybe it decreases in the same way regardless of the appearance, I will try to test it when I have time. |
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Post by YDE on Jul 15, 2022 14:41:20 GMT
I have two questions, one pertaining to Bismarck, the other about the looks of troops. 1. While everyone else gets to silver star, Bismarck stays at 5 star. Do you think with this new update, Bismarck should be upgraded to silver star, or does his Destroy perk outweigh the added stat buff and anti-calvarly. I know it's different for every team, but let's take the example of Bismarck and Cleo (Cleo at red star and above). Those two are a pretty common pair. 2. The new ability to change the general's troop looks is pretty cool. Having Nobunaga revert to his Ashigarus is really cool to have (IMO), while others like Cleo getting catapult is just ridiculous lmao but this is my question: So Calvarly's troop change sometimes reverts their tanks to actually horses (elephants for a few), right? And we know as HP falls, attack as well (ex: for every infantry unit you lose in the army, the attack drops). Does attack drop for silver star generals that revert to horses follow the same code as normal horse units, or does it stick with the code of the two tanks? If you're not getting my meaning, let me try another way. 2 tanks: Max attack. Loss of one tank: half attack 3 Horses: Max attack. Loss of one calvarly: -1/3 attack. Loss of two calvarly: -2/3 attack (correct me if I'm wrong) If I revert a silver star general's troops to horses, does the attack debuff follow the rule of calvarly or of tanks? 1. Bismarck is still better at lvl 5, his stats don't improve much. 2. I like changing troops, too. I did it for the units I like to see: Nobunaga (ashigaru), Saladin (mamluks), Mulan (chu-ko-nu), Robin Hood (longbowmen), Alexander (hoplite), Suriyothai (mahout), Li Shimin (fire dragon). But it's expensive and you should do it only in endgame, when you have medals to waste. As regards the correlation between number of troops in appearance and damage, it's more complicated than this. Damage decreases even before losing one of the two tanks. Maybe it decreases in the same way regardless of the appearance, I will try to test it when I have time. Thank you, I look forward to hearing your results! Also, I agree. Some generals get really good classic units. I would much prefer if Attila got Hussars rather than his Knights. |
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Post by jonblend on Jul 15, 2022 18:09:02 GMT
I have two questions, one pertaining to Bismarck, the other about the looks of troops. 1. While everyone else gets to silver star, Bismarck stays at 5 star. Do you think with this new update, Bismarck should be upgraded to silver star, or does his Destroy perk outweigh the added stat buff and anti-calvarly. I know it's different for every team, but let's take the example of Bismarck and Cleo (Cleo at red star and above). Those two are a pretty common pair. 2. The new ability to change the general's troop looks is pretty cool. Having Nobunaga revert to his Ashigarus is really cool to have (IMO), while others like Cleo getting catapult is just ridiculous lmao but this is my question: So Calvarly's troop change sometimes reverts their tanks to actually horses (elephants for a few), right? And we know as HP falls, attack as well (ex: for every infantry unit you lose in the army, the attack drops). Does attack drop for silver star generals that revert to horses follow the same code as normal horse units, or does it stick with the code of the two tanks? If you're not getting my meaning, let me try another way. 2 tanks: Max attack. Loss of one tank: half attack 3 Horses: Max attack. Loss of one calvarly: -1/3 attack. Loss of two calvarly: -2/3 attack (correct me if I'm wrong) If I revert a silver star general's troops to horses, does the attack debuff follow the rule of calvarly or of tanks? I prefer Bismarck on lv5 and I even included him on this level on the Max stats picture so you can compare him vs the lv7 version. His damage is low against everything that is not a building either way (in endgame and unless you give him your absolutely best equipment).
I also think that the artillery trail missions, which really test your generals are easily possible with both versions of Bismarck. And in the last one, you're even given a lv7 Bismarck as unit so you can compare.
Usually, I'd say AI never targets artillery so we rarely can make use of their boosted counterattack dmg. But Bismarck with his range 1-3 item has some front line potential. Still, cav and inf perform much better in this role. Not getting countered which might result in catching debuffs is far better. Even though you can out-range a lot of enemies, there are still a lot of dangerous artillery generals (+ Nelson, Robin and (Yi sun sin)), towers and mystical beasts which can counter at a 3 hex distance.
Thanks to blueberry for answering the second part it's a very interesting consideration that I never thought about. And since I'm not yet in the waste medals endgame I don't have any experience with it. I would be interested in the results as well.
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Post by YDE on Jul 15, 2022 21:43:21 GMT
I have two questions, one pertaining to Bismarck, the other about the looks of troops. 1. While everyone else gets to silver star, Bismarck stays at 5 star. Do you think with this new update, Bismarck should be upgraded to silver star, or does his Destroy perk outweigh the added stat buff and anti-calvarly. I know it's different for every team, but let's take the example of Bismarck and Cleo (Cleo at red star and above). Those two are a pretty common pair. 2. The new ability to change the general's troop looks is pretty cool. Having Nobunaga revert to his Ashigarus is really cool to have (IMO), while others like Cleo getting catapult is just ridiculous lmao but this is my question: So Calvarly's troop change sometimes reverts their tanks to actually horses (elephants for a few), right? And we know as HP falls, attack as well (ex: for every infantry unit you lose in the army, the attack drops). Does attack drop for silver star generals that revert to horses follow the same code as normal horse units, or does it stick with the code of the two tanks? If you're not getting my meaning, let me try another way. 2 tanks: Max attack. Loss of one tank: half attack 3 Horses: Max attack. Loss of one calvarly: -1/3 attack. Loss of two calvarly: -2/3 attack (correct me if I'm wrong) If I revert a silver star general's troops to horses, does the attack debuff follow the rule of calvarly or of tanks? I prefer Bismarck on lv5 and I even included him on this level on the Max stats picture so you can compare him vs the lv7 version. His damage is low against everything that is not a building either way (in endgame and unless you give him your absolutely best equipment).
I also think that the artillery trail missions, which really test your generals are easily possible with both versions of Bismarck. And in the last one, you're even given a lv7 Bismarck as unit so you can compare.
Usually, I'd say AI never targets artillery so we rarely can make use of their boosted counterattack dmg. But Bismarck with his range 1-3 item has some front line potential. Still, cav and inf perform much better in this role. Not getting countered which might result in catching debuffs is far better. Even though you can out-range a lot of enemies, there are still a lot of dangerous artillery generals (+ Nelson, Robin and (Yi sun sin)), towers and mystical beasts which can counter at a 3 hex distance.
Thanks to blueberry for answering the second part it's a very interesting consideration that I never thought about. And since I'm not yet in the waste medals endgame I don't have any experience with it. I would be interested in the results as well.
I think the fury perk is included for extra damage against towers when they attack you. It's good on paper, but studying the enemy AI, towers only target artillery if they're the only target available. They'll either try to aim at someone they outrange, or anything other than artillery. Little side note: Max level artillery (4* and up, maybe at 3*) will not be attacked at all by towers. I experimented it with my 5* max level Cleo a few weeks ago and no towers ever targeted her when she was in range. With all this in mind, do you think upgrading any artillery to silver star is beneficial? All they gain is a fury buff (for most cases), which only works well on paper. |
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Post by blueberry on Jul 15, 2022 22:16:21 GMT
YDE , jonblend , I tested it with Saladin at 3094 health and 947 attack. The attack decreases according to the old appearance: attack is still at 947 when health is more than 50% (3 mamluks), it's at 757 when it's between 50 and 25% (2 mamluks), 568 below 25% (1 mamluks). It doesn't matter if the appearance is tanks or mamluks, it's the same. Unsurprisingly, the attack-health correlation is similar to ew4 (for single formation units): european-war-4.boards.net/post/26919/threadBut the minimum attack doesn't drop below 60%, in ew5.
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Post by jonblend on Jul 15, 2022 22:31:56 GMT
I prefer Bismarck on lv5 and I even included him on this level on the Max stats picture so you can compare him vs the lv7 version. His damage is low against everything that is not a building either way (in endgame and unless you give him your absolutely best equipment).
I also think that the artillery trail missions, which really test your generals are easily possible with both versions of Bismarck. And in the last one, you're even given a lv7 Bismarck as unit so you can compare.
Usually, I'd say AI never targets artillery so we rarely can make use of their boosted counterattack dmg. But Bismarck with his range 1-3 item has some front line potential. Still, cav and inf perform much better in this role. Not getting countered which might result in catching debuffs is far better. Even though you can out-range a lot of enemies, there are still a lot of dangerous artillery generals (+ Nelson, Robin and (Yi sun sin)), towers and mystical beasts which can counter at a 3 hex distance.
Thanks to blueberry for answering the second part it's a very interesting consideration that I never thought about. And since I'm not yet in the waste medals endgame I don't have any experience with it. I would be interested in the results as well.
I think the fury perk is included for extra damage against towers when they attack you. It's good on paper, but studying the enemy AI, towers only target artillery if they're the only target available. They'll either try to aim at someone they outrange, or anything other than artillery. Little side note: Max level artillery (4* and up, maybe at 3*) will not be attacked at all by towers. I experimented it with my 5* max level Cleo a few weeks ago and no towers ever targeted her when she was in range. With all this in mind, do you think upgrading any artillery to silver star is beneficial? All they gain is a fury buff (for most cases), which only works well on paper. These towers are doing their cost-benefit-analysis
And I didn't upgrade any artillery to silver stars but mostly because of the medal cost and the lack of necessity. Your observation is one more argument against it. The only possibility I could see is Cleopatra if you want to squeeze every point of damage out of her (+23 attack stat points, multiplied by 1.15 with inspiration) to make more use of Mobility.
(And Napoleon of course for his attack again chance.)
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Post by jonblend on Jul 15, 2022 22:48:07 GMT
YDE , jonblend , I tested it with Saladin at 3094 health and 947 attack. The attack decreases according to the old appearance: attack is still at 947 when health is more than 50% (3 mamluks), it's at 757 when it's between 50 and 25% (2 mamluks), 568 below 25% (1 mamluks). It doesn't matter if the appearance is tanks or mamluks, it's the same. Unsurprisingly, the attack-health correlation is similar to ew4 (for single formation units): european-war-4.boards.net/post/26919/threadBut the minimum attack doesn't drop below 60%, in ew5. And I learned something new about the basic mechanics of this game after playing it for almost 9 months. |
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to calculate stats without having to rely on a certain youtuber 
