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Post by resiphius on Jun 21, 2023 19:44:57 GMT
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I suppose infantry EC need Raider on top of Organization, which leaves only 3 slots for common skills that are usable when commanding tank or artillery. So how is infantry EC not conflict with tank/artillery while one among Explosives, Plain Fighting and Inspiration has to give way to Raider? Also I don’t see how infantry EC commanding MI or Commando best at least tank EC commanding armored car when performing the role of an air general, so why infantry air EC when tank air or even super crerar with air EC can work at least equal? P.S. My 3 ECs are very old build topped up to Super Crerar and then to Eisenhower build and I can tell you that I hardly use infantry ability unless being forced to (e.g. Operation Blitz Belgrade), and I even cleared a challenge conquest 1960 run (Portugal) using all 3 ECs on rockets beelining toward Khabarovsk from Pacific Ocean without being nuke (field marshal EC with lvl 5 legion medal on rocket has 495hp, so it was very easy to tell if they got nuked, especially when not SAM protected). You don't have to have Raider. As far as I know, Organization is all you need for a damage-oriented build. Tank EC cannot beat infantry EC as air general in 2 aspects: movement speed and regen speed. Armored car is still subject to terrain influence and will be inevitably slower than MI, and commando has 10 grid starting advantage from paratrooping. Organization can also help surviving more nukes. I can tell you that back when I was figuring out how to beat challenge conquest 1943, I had Goring OTKed by nuke out in the opening and consecutive missile strikes in city in different runs, so no, organization only help surviving attacks under normal circumstances but not against that from an AI determined to kill you. I suspect you have that thought due to wrong impression created simply by seeing your infantry EC lost tons of hp in one turn, but was unaware that he was outside a nuke susceptible zone (but probably in a spot that caused the AI to violently react to your EC being there, which is one reason why people don’t know about the nuke susceptible zone thing). |
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Jun 21, 2023 20:10:31 GMT
I can tell you that back when I was figuring out how to beat challenge conquest 1943, I had Goring OTKed by nuke out in the opening and consecutive missile strikes in city in different runs, so no, organization only help surviving attacks under normal circumstances but not against that from an AI determined to kill you. I suspect you have that thought due to wrong impression created simply by seeing your infantry EC lost tons of hp in one turn, but was unaware that he was outside a nuke susceptible zone (but probably in a spot that caused the AI to violently react to your EC being there, which is one reason why people don’t know about the nuke susceptible zone thing). Not only that but ai countries don't have to deal with nuke cooldowns lol. In 1960 challenge the uk almost always nukes budapest on turn 2 |
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Post by pevertpanda on Jun 23, 2023 6:33:42 GMT
[/quote]Not only that but ai countries don't have to deal with nuke cooldowns lol. In 1960 challenge the uk almost always nukes budapest on turn 2[/quote]
So that's explained why all my 6 generals disappeared so fast. It's no fun when my first deployed general (not in city) got nuked in the second turn.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Jun 26, 2023 16:00:44 GMT
You don't have to have Raider. As far as I know, Organization is all you need for a damage-oriented build. Tank EC cannot beat infantry EC as air general in 2 aspects: movement speed and regen speed. Armored car is still subject to terrain influence and will be inevitably slower than MI, and commando has 10 grid starting advantage from paratrooping. Organization can also help surviving more nukes. I can tell you that back when I was figuring out how to beat challenge conquest 1943, I had Goring OTKed by nuke out in the opening and consecutive missile strikes in city in different runs, so no, organization only help surviving attacks under normal circumstances but not against that from an AI determined to kill you. I suspect you have that thought due to wrong impression created simply by seeing your infantry EC lost tons of hp in one turn, but was unaware that he was outside a nuke susceptible zone (but probably in a spot that caused the AI to violently react to your EC being there, which is one reason why people don’t know about the nuke susceptible zone thing). This is beyond my knowledge so I called in outside support. Disclaimer: nothing in the following originates from me. Infantry general getting OTKed by airstrikes only happens when attacking European Axis from the east in 1943, where you might get nuked by Germany AND Italy in the same turn. If your tank general has lvl 2+ Expropriation, he can join force with the infantry EC to reduce the risk of being OTKed. Radar Station (AF + Defense) will also help if you are not sure of the airstrike frequency. In case of AI determined to kill you, surround your Radar Station general with multiple units and move together. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Jun 26, 2023 16:00:44 GMT
You don't have to have Raider. As far as I know, Organization is all you need for a damage-oriented build. Tank EC cannot beat infantry EC as air general in 2 aspects: movement speed and regen speed. Armored car is still subject to terrain influence and will be inevitably slower than MI, and commando has 10 grid starting advantage from paratrooping. Organization can also help surviving more nukes. I can tell you that back when I was figuring out how to beat challenge conquest 1943, I had Goring OTKed by nuke out in the opening and consecutive missile strikes in city in different runs, so no, organization only help surviving attacks under normal circumstances but not against that from an AI determined to kill you. I suspect you have that thought due to wrong impression created simply by seeing your infantry EC lost tons of hp in one turn, but was unaware that he was outside a nuke susceptible zone (but probably in a spot that caused the AI to violently react to your EC being there, which is one reason why people don’t know about the nuke susceptible zone thing). This is beyond my knowledge so I called in outside support. Disclaimer: nothing in the following originates from me. Infantry general getting OTKed by airstrikes only happens when attacking European Axis from the east in 1943, where you might get nuked by Germany AND Italy in the same turn. If your tank general has lvl 2+ Expropriation, he can join force with the infantry EC to reduce the risk of being OTKed. Radar Station (AF + Defense) will also help if you are not sure of the airstrike frequency. In case of AI determined to kill you, surround your Radar Station general with multiple units and move together. |
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Post by jonblend on Jun 26, 2023 19:27:01 GMT
From my perspective (having completed all the "designated" allies and axis in 1943), the nuke zones are just the range of missiles/strategic bombers around cities and it doesn't matter from where you come, but it's hard to figure out the exact border since different nations are given different levels of technology (as can be seen with level of supply). If you happen to step into such a zone with only one unit or even an overlapping one then there will be lots of incoming damage (sneaking up to some important airfield/missile city like we did in 1939 is no longer a good tactic). Hence why it's better to send paratroopers first and use tanks as mop up for remaining units and cities of lesser importance.
In 1960, there is almost no way to evade getting nuked, so focus on economy and on taking less damage from them by parking generals next to cities captured by paratroopers so they can profit from the air defense radar upgrade, and move together with spam or allies, (so that not all enemy air attacks are concentrated on one target) especially if their generals have more HP. And of course there is a little bit of rng, the turn2 nuke from London can hit either Warsaw or Budapest for example. And thanks to air force+combo medal, Goring can stay far from the front line and still contribute.
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Post by resiphius on Jun 27, 2023 16:59:06 GMT
I can tell you that back when I was figuring out how to beat challenge conquest 1943, I had Goring OTKed by nuke out in the opening and consecutive missile strikes in city in different runs, so no, organization only help surviving attacks under normal circumstances but not against that from an AI determined to kill you. I suspect you have that thought due to wrong impression created simply by seeing your infantry EC lost tons of hp in one turn, but was unaware that he was outside a nuke susceptible zone (but probably in a spot that caused the AI to violently react to your EC being there, which is one reason why people don’t know about the nuke susceptible zone thing). This is beyond my knowledge so I called in outside support. Disclaimer: nothing in the following originates from me. Infantry general getting OTKed by airstrikes only happens when attacking European Axis from the east in 1943, where you might get nuked by Germany AND Italy in the same turn. If your tank general has lvl 2+ Expropriation, he can join force with the infantry EC to reduce the risk of being OTKed. Radar Station (AF + Defense) will also help if you are not sure of the airstrike frequency. In case of AI determined to kill you, surround your Radar Station general with multiple units and move together. Pack together works quite questionable for me, as I had already lost several generals east of Kunming despite AA rocket protected and were clustered with other units when I did 1960 challenge runs. |
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Post by resiphius on Jun 27, 2023 18:10:22 GMT
From my perspective (having completed all the "designated" allies and axis in 1943), the nuke zones are just the range of missiles/strategic bombers around cities and it doesn't matter from where you come, but it's hard to figure out the exact border since different nations are given different levels of technology (as can be seen with level of supply). If you happen to step into such a zone with only one unit or even an overlapping one then there will be lots of incoming damage (sneaking up to some important airfield/missile city like we did in 1939 is no longer a good tactic). Hence why it's better to send paratroopers first and use tanks as mop up for remaining units and cities of lesser importance.
In 1960, there is almost no way to evade getting nuked, so focus on economy and on taking less damage from them by parking generals next to cities captured by paratroopers so they can profit from the air defense radar upgrade, and move together with spam or allies, (so that not all enemy air attacks are concentrated on one target) especially if their generals have more HP. And of course there is a little bit of rng, the turn2 nuke from London can hit either Warsaw or Budapest for example. And thanks to air force+combo medal, Goring can stay far from the front line and still contribute.
I won’t tell you that I had occasionally seen my generals or even rockets or super tanks without commander ate up to 3 medium/long range missiles in just one turn when marching with large bulk of units. I understand why you don’t think nuke zones has gaps in them as USA and USSR have almost complete 360 degree nuke susceptible zones and other countries would from time to time aggressively attack your generals exploiting their nuke free zones, but I believe in that because I have seen many times some enemies may go easy on my generals if they marched to the nuke capable cities from some directions, and I don’t believe those occasions are due to luck. |
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Post by jonblend on Jun 27, 2023 22:51:14 GMT
From my perspective (having completed all the "designated" allies and axis in 1943), the nuke zones are just the range of missiles/strategic bombers around cities and it doesn't matter from where you come, but it's hard to figure out the exact border since different nations are given different levels of technology (as can be seen with level of supply). If you happen to step into such a zone with only one unit or even an overlapping one then there will be lots of incoming damage (sneaking up to some important airfield/missile city like we did in 1939 is no longer a good tactic). Hence why it's better to send paratroopers first and use tanks as mop up for remaining units and cities of lesser importance.
In 1960, there is almost no way to evade getting nuked, so focus on economy and on taking less damage from them by parking generals next to cities captured by paratroopers so they can profit from the air defense radar upgrade, and move together with spam or allies, (so that not all enemy air attacks are concentrated on one target) especially if their generals have more HP. And of course there is a little bit of rng, the turn2 nuke from London can hit either Warsaw or Budapest for example. And thanks to air force+combo medal, Goring can stay far from the front line and still contribute.
I won’t tell you that I had occasionally seen my generals or even rockets or super tanks without commander ate up to 3 medium/long range missiles in just one turn when marching with large bulk of units. I understand why you don’t think nuke zones has gaps in them as USA and USSR have almost complete 360 degree nuke susceptible zones and other countries would from time to time aggressively attack your generals exploiting their nuke free zones, but I believe in that because I have seen many times some enemies may go easy on my generals if they marched to the nuke capable cities from some directions, and I don’t believe those occasions are due to luck. The things I describe are from ~10 runs, and in my opinion it's hard to find a consistent pattern between them. This doesn't mean that there couldn't be one or maybe I'm just not seeing it (yet). Could also be that a probability distribution is the best thing we could get out of it.
My experience could be summarized as "sometimes everything went well and sometimes not" but it's definitely not a "if I do x then y happens" scenario since there have been exceptions.
But I'm here primarily to learn and not to discredit, I'd be happy if there is an explanation for all our observations.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Jun 30, 2023 1:47:44 GMT
This is beyond my knowledge so I called in outside support. Disclaimer: nothing in the following originates from me. Infantry general getting OTKed by airstrikes only happens when attacking European Axis from the east in 1943, where you might get nuked by Germany AND Italy in the same turn. If your tank general has lvl 2+ Expropriation, he can join force with the infantry EC to reduce the risk of being OTKed. Radar Station (AF + Defense) will also help if you are not sure of the airstrike frequency. In case of AI determined to kill you, surround your Radar Station general with multiple units and move together. Pack together works quite questionable for me, as I had already lost several generals east of Kunming despite AA rocket protected and were clustered with other units when I did 1960 challenge runs. That's for avoiding the nuke + missile you mentioned before, so that the nuked general will be less likely to get hit by missiles due to low HP. |
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Post by resiphius on Jul 1, 2023 17:17:03 GMT
Pack together works quite questionable for me, as I had already lost several generals east of Kunming despite AA rocket protected and were clustered with other units when I did 1960 challenge runs. That's for avoiding the nuke + missile you mentioned before, so that the nuked general will be less likely to get hit by missiles due to low HP. My bad, I was meaning got nuked in the open or missile stricken in separate runs, not in the same run. And no, the “other units” I deployed to escort the generals are mostly rockets produced in Bangkok, which in some of the runs I lost general there were the same one commanded by the nuked general as well. |
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Post by resiphius on Jul 1, 2023 17:44:44 GMT
I won’t tell you that I had occasionally seen my generals or even rockets or super tanks without commander ate up to 3 medium/long range missiles in just one turn when marching with large bulk of units. I understand why you don’t think nuke zones has gaps in them as USA and USSR have almost complete 360 degree nuke susceptible zones and other countries would from time to time aggressively attack your generals exploiting their nuke free zones, but I believe in that because I have seen many times some enemies may go easy on my generals if they marched to the nuke capable cities from some directions, and I don’t believe those occasions are due to luck. The things I describe are from ~10 runs, and in my opinion it's hard to find a consistent pattern between them. This doesn't mean that there couldn't be one or maybe I'm just not seeing it (yet). Could also be that a probability distribution is the best thing we could get out of it.
My experience could be summarized as "sometimes everything went well and sometimes not" but it's definitely not a "if I do x then y happens" scenario since there have been exceptions.
But I'm here primarily to learn and not to discredit, I'd be happy if there is an explanation for all our observations.
I first got the idea after many 1950 and 1960 runs that I can attack UK by landing on Ireland from west or southwest as WTO (excluding USSR, which I instead attack Scotland through the Baltic states crawling along the upper map border). Through I did said that challenge conquests maybe a bit different since every nuke havers are richer and may have more nuke/missile capable cities. |
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Post by nikomachos on Oct 30, 2023 13:26:00 GMT
Which routes do you prefer for operation
4 Torch, 5 Blitzkrieg*, 6 Overlord.
Which routes do you prefer or find easier.
I have been only farming 1-3.
1 is easy either way but i go north.
2 i go south.
3 i go west.
* i collected blitzkrieg inspiring already.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Oct 30, 2023 15:16:40 GMT
Which routes do you prefer for operation 4 Torch, 5 Blitzkrieg*, 6 Overlord. Which routes do you prefer or find easier. I have been only farming 1-3. 1 is easy either way but i go north. 2 i go south. 3 i go west. * i collected blitzkrieg inspiring already. Casablanca, Paris, Amsterdam. |
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Post by nikomachos on Oct 30, 2023 15:38:17 GMT
Which routes do you prefer for operation 4 Torch, 5 Blitzkrieg*, 6 Overlord. Which routes do you prefer or find easier. I have been only farming 1-3. 1 is easy either way but i go north. 2 i go south. 3 i go west. * i collected blitzkrieg inspiring already. Casablanca, Paris, Amsterdam. thanks! I am literally stuck at overlord amsterdam though, which was part of the reason i asked. If you have specifics for this one it would also be very welcomed  |
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