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Post by Erich von Manstein on Jun 20, 2024 0:05:27 GMT
Now that the new update is here, what would you do differently if you started today instead of in January? Obviously no more Tito and Crerar. Will you try to get Darlan early? Hoth instead of Bastico? Actually I am contemplating about getting Tito once again  I feel that finances are my Achilles' heel in challenge conquests and since we usually have lots of weak units at the start, it is a good idea to hire such cheap generals with some economic background and just let them stay permanently inside small towns somewhere behind the lines. But my point to get Tito early was that it is possible to complete daily missions immidietly. Obviously the point is not valid anymore, because we have three freebies. So, yeah, it is possible skip Tito for now (at least, until we have some spare medals to improve his coin grinding). I definitely believe that Darlan is an extremely easy general to unlock, especially after 1943 challenge conquest are released. Instead of Mikava I would rather go straight for Yamaguchi. Darlan, Yamaguchi, Horton and probably Nimitz (with 40% discount) are enough for any conquest, campaigns or operations we play right now, including recently released Battle of Alaska. I have now both Hoth and Bastico and I can say that Bastico is a better Tank general. Inspiration or (probably even better) Inferior Victory are more useful in practical terms than Blitzkrieg, in my opinion. For you that makes sense. For Inspiration vs IV I'd say Inspiration. Since Bastico is probably your main tanker he'll get more kills, which keeps his morale high. I was mainly thinking about your previous thoughts of making your budget team approach applicable for beginners. In early game I think Hoth has an edge? He comes with one extra star in tank and movement, in addition to lvl 3 Blitz. Dominance is also easier to trigger than Retaliation. If you want to make your approach a new starting path for beginners, Hoth is more mistake tolerant, which is a big plus for beginners. I don't think Tito's 5 gold per turn is worth it. Arnold or Chennault sounds like a better idea. |
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Post by stoic on Jun 20, 2024 2:26:56 GMT
Actually I am contemplating about getting Tito once again I feel that finances are my Achilles' heel in challenge conquests and since we usually have lots of weak units at the start, it is a good idea to hire such cheap generals with some economic background and just let them stay permanently inside small towns somewhere behind the lines. But my point to get Tito early was that it is possible to complete daily missions immidietly. Obviously the point is not valid anymore, because we have three freebies. So, yeah, it is possible skip Tito for now (at least, until we have some spare medals to improve his coin grinding). I definitely believe that Darlan is an extremely easy general to unlock, especially after 1943 challenge conquest are released. Instead of Mikava I would rather go straight for Yamaguchi. Darlan, Yamaguchi, Horton and probably Nimitz (with 40% discount) are enough for any conquest, campaigns or operations we play right now, including recently released Battle of Alaska. I have now both Hoth and Bastico and I can say that Bastico is a better Tank general. Inspiration or (probably even better) Inferior Victory are more useful in practical terms than Blitzkrieg, in my opinion. But in early game surely Hoth has an edge? He comes with one extra tank and movement star, in addition to lvl 3 Blitz. What about people trying to follow your budget team starting lineup? Tito only has lvl 1 econ expert. I don't think 5 gold per turn is worth it. Arnold or Chennault sounds like a better idea. On the contrary, I think that Retaliation has an edge over Dominance in early stages of the game. And Blitzkrieg... It is not a bad skill, but most of the time we don't attack overpowered opponents with our tank generals. Most of the time our task is to eliminate weak units around them. And Retaliation+Inspiration (new players don't won't have an access to Inferior victory for a long time) is a great way of doing it. Besides, if used properly, even lvl 2 life-stealing Ribbons can maintain the health of our tank generals. My idea behind buying Goth in the end was to get rid of Blitzkrieg on my Rommel and to choose something damage-dealing instead. Right at the moment my Rommel equipped with my best Ribbons is outperformed by Bastico in almost every possible scenario. Bastico is an excellent general, better than many gold tier generals. As to economics I doubt that Arnold is suitable for this role anymore: 1. First of all it is gold that we need more than anything else. And since Arnold already has Carpet bombings it is logical to choose industry expert instead. 2. Then, after two new cold war units were released, every f2p player has a question about their Commanders. It turns out that Arnold is one of the best for commanding both of them. That means we don't have a luxury anymore to keep him behind city walls all the time. 3. That leaves us with a rather limited choice. We have Chennault and Dowding. Yet I feel like we may deploy more generals producing coins. In most hard mode scenarios we may deploy up to 12 generals. Even after 5 months of playing I deploy my Navy generals in land battles. So, deploying generals with economic skills instead is far more profitable. Not to speak about challenge conquests, when up to 30 generals may be deployed. Therefore Tito almost always can find a place for himself on the battlefield. 5 coins won't make any difference, of course, but 25 coins per turn can be helpful. That doesn't mean that we should buy Tito and to upgrade him immediately. But in the long run it is a good investment. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Jun 20, 2024 2:44:13 GMT
But in early game surely Hoth has an edge? He comes with one extra tank and movement star, in addition to lvl 3 Blitz. What about people trying to follow your budget team starting lineup? Tito only has lvl 1 econ expert. I don't think 5 gold per turn is worth it. Arnold or Chennault sounds like a better idea. On the contrary, I think that Retaliation has an edge over Dominance in early stages of the game. And Blitzkrieg... It is not a bad skill, but most of the time we don't attack overpowered opponents with our tank generals. Most of the time our task is to eliminate weak units around them. And Retaliation+Inspiration (new players don't won't have an access to Inferior victory for a long time) is a great way of doing it. Besides, if used properly, even lvl 2 life-stealing Ribbons can maintain the health of our tank generals. My idea behind buying Goth in the end was to get rid of Blitzkrieg on my Rommel and to choose something damage-dealing instead. Right at the moment my Rommel equipped with my best Ribbons is outperformed by Bastico in almost every possible scenario. Bastico is an excellent general, better than many gold tier generals. As to economics I doubt that Arnold is suitable for this role anymore: 1. First of all it is gold that we need more than anything else. And since Arnold already has Carpet bombings it is logical to choose industry expert instead. 2. Then, after two new cold war units were released, every f2p player has a question about their Commanders. It turns out that Arnold is one of the best for commanding both of them. That means we don't have a luxury anymore to keep him behind city walls all the time. 3. That leaves us with a rather limited choice. We have Chennault and Dowding. Yet I feel like we may deploy more generals producing coins. In most hard mode scenarios we may deploy up to 12 generals. Even after 5 months of playing I deploy my Navy generals in land battles. So, deploying generals with economic skills instead is far more profitable. Not to speak about challenge conquests, when up to 30 generals may be deployed. Therefore Tito almost always can find a place for himself on the battlefield. 5 coins won't make any difference, of course, but 25 coins per turn can be helpful. That doesn't mean that we should buy Tito and to upgrade him immediately. But in the long run it is a good investment. Just edited my post. |
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Post by stoic on Jun 20, 2024 3:37:38 GMT
On the contrary, I think that Retaliation has an edge over Dominance in early stages of the game. And Blitzkrieg... It is not a bad skill, but most of the time we don't attack overpowered opponents with our tank generals. Most of the time our task is to eliminate weak units around them. And Retaliation+Inspiration (new players don't won't have an access to Inferior victory for a long time) is a great way of doing it. Besides, if used properly, even lvl 2 life-stealing Ribbons can maintain the health of our tank generals. My idea behind buying Goth in the end was to get rid of Blitzkrieg on my Rommel and to choose something damage-dealing instead. Right at the moment my Rommel equipped with my best Ribbons is outperformed by Bastico in almost every possible scenario. Bastico is an excellent general, better than many gold tier generals. As to economics I doubt that Arnold is suitable for this role anymore: 1. First of all it is gold that we need more than anything else. And since Arnold already has Carpet bombings it is logical to choose industry expert instead. 2. Then, after two new cold war units were released, every f2p player has a question about their Commanders. It turns out that Arnold is one of the best for commanding both of them. That means we don't have a luxury anymore to keep him behind city walls all the time. 3. That leaves us with a rather limited choice. We have Chennault and Dowding. Yet I feel like we may deploy more generals producing coins. In most hard mode scenarios we may deploy up to 12 generals. Even after 5 months of playing I deploy my Navy generals in land battles. So, deploying generals with economic skills instead is far more profitable. Not to speak about challenge conquests, when up to 30 generals may be deployed. Therefore Tito almost always can find a place for himself on the battlefield. 5 coins won't make any difference, of course, but 25 coins per turn can be helpful. That doesn't mean that we should buy Tito and to upgrade him immediately. But in the long run it is a good investment. Just edited my post. Here it is a small illustration of generals with Blitzkrieg vs. generals with additional forms of damage.   It doesn't prove, of course, that Rommel is worse than Bastico, but these things happen from time to time and it is annoying since the difference between success and failure is crucial at times. And in the end survivability of our tank generals mostly depend on their life-stealing than on Blitzkrieg. And here the more we kill the more we heal...  |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Jun 20, 2024 6:01:58 GMT
Here it is a small illustration of generals with Blitzkrieg vs. generals with additional forms of damage. It doesn't prove, of course, that Rommel is worse than Bastico, but these things happen from time to time and it is annoying since the difference between success and failure is crucial at times. And in the end survivability of our tank generals mostly depend on their life-stealing than on Blitzkrieg. And here the more we kill the more we heal... It's true that Bastico has great damage potential once maxed out, but you have to realize we are talking about early game beginners. Their skills are nowhere close to stoic 's level and they are still in the process of building their general roster. You also cannot access Inspiration until challenge difficulty campaigns, what skill are you gonna put on Bastico before that? If Bastico is meant for the weak units surrounding the tough nuts, which general, among the beginners' short early game roster, is responsible for them? Or are you going to deal with them using howitzer spam? |
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Post by stoic on Jun 20, 2024 7:42:07 GMT
Here it is a small illustration of generals with Blitzkrieg vs. generals with additional forms of damage. It doesn't prove, of course, that Rommel is worse than Bastico, but these things happen from time to time and it is annoying since the difference between success and failure is crucial at times. And in the end survivability of our tank generals mostly depend on their life-stealing than on Blitzkrieg. And here the more we kill the more we heal... It's true that Bastico has great damage potential once maxed out, but you have to realize we are talking about early game beginners. Their skills are nowhere close to stoic 's level and they are still in the process of building their general roster. You also cannot access Inspiration until challenge difficulty campaigns, what skill are you gonna put on Bastico before that? If Bastico is meant for the weak units surrounding the tough nuts, which general, among the beginners' short early game roster, is responsible for them? Or are you going to deal with them using howitzer spam? Inspiration by itself is not that hard to unlock. Just checked it and I already wrote about it after 6 days of playing (page 4 of this thread). We actually don't have to win the corresponding challenge campaign, it's just enough to complete it on hard, get an access to challenge and grab the Inspiration. And tough opponents (like Manstein in Berlin in the last mission for Allies) usually were dealt with by using a team work in general. But isolating them (and quite often surrounding them) was a major part of it. As I said, Blitzkrieg is not that bad to have. And I agree that at the start it is easier to utilize the benefits of it, but if we are talking about a normal run (without my self-proclaimed restrictions on using expensive generals) then players get Guderian as their first or second Tank general, and Blitzkrieg is his default skill. And since players may have only 2 medals improving the chances of Blitzkrieg then they basically have to choose between Hoth and List, because Guderian is out of competition. Yet, I don't believe that new players fully understand what can help them more eventually - a bonus against fortifications (List) or a bonus against confused opponents (Hoth). Buying Bastico on the other hand can help new players to postpone this decision until later on. With time the utility of Blitzkrieg will diminish, though. Especially after unlocking Chennault. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Jun 23, 2024 13:01:31 GMT
It's true that Bastico has great damage potential once maxed out, but you have to realize we are talking about early game beginners. Their skills are nowhere close to stoic 's level and they are still in the process of building their general roster. You also cannot access Inspiration until challenge difficulty campaigns, what skill are you gonna put on Bastico before that? If Bastico is meant for the weak units surrounding the tough nuts, which general, among the beginners' short early game roster, is responsible for them? Or are you going to deal with them using howitzer spam? Inspiration by itself is not that hard to unlock. Just checked it and I already wrote about it after 6 days of playing (page 4 of this thread). We actually don't have to win the corresponding challenge campaign, it's just enough to complete it on hard, get an access to challenge and grab the Inspiration. And tough opponents (like Manstein in Berlin in the last mission for Allies) usually were dealt with by using a team work in general. But isolating them (and quite often surrounding them) was a major part of it. As I said, Blitzkrieg is not that bad to have. And I agree that at the start it is easier to utilize the benefits of it, but if we are talking about a normal run (without my self-proclaimed restrictions on using expensive generals) then players get Guderian as their first or second Tank general, and Blitzkrieg is his default skill. And since players may have only 2 medals improving the chances of Blitzkrieg then they basically have to choose between Hoth and List, because Guderian is out of competition. Yet, I don't believe that new players fully understand what can help them more eventually - a bonus against fortifications (List) or a bonus against confused opponents (Hoth). Buying Bastico on the other hand can help new players to postpone this decision until later on. With time the utility of Blitzkrieg will diminish, though. Especially after unlocking Chennault. If it took you 6 days, I can only imagine beginners taking much longer than that. It will take them a while to beat hard level campaigns. AA on the other hand is available fairly early. For List, since Explosives' expertise lies in frontier and warzone, which are also Crossfire's specialization, do you think we can let Pavlov do List's job? Not anywhere close in conquests, but good enough for a general costing 3k less. |
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Post by stoic on Jun 23, 2024 17:57:47 GMT
Inspiration by itself is not that hard to unlock. Just checked it and I already wrote about it after 6 days of playing (page 4 of this thread). We actually don't have to win the corresponding challenge campaign, it's just enough to complete it on hard, get an access to challenge and grab the Inspiration. And tough opponents (like Manstein in Berlin in the last mission for Allies) usually were dealt with by using a team work in general. But isolating them (and quite often surrounding them) was a major part of it. As I said, Blitzkrieg is not that bad to have. And I agree that at the start it is easier to utilize the benefits of it, but if we are talking about a normal run (without my self-proclaimed restrictions on using expensive generals) then players get Guderian as their first or second Tank general, and Blitzkrieg is his default skill. And since players may have only 2 medals improving the chances of Blitzkrieg then they basically have to choose between Hoth and List, because Guderian is out of competition. Yet, I don't believe that new players fully understand what can help them more eventually - a bonus against fortifications (List) or a bonus against confused opponents (Hoth). Buying Bastico on the other hand can help new players to postpone this decision until later on. With time the utility of Blitzkrieg will diminish, though. Especially after unlocking Chennault. If it took you 6 days, I can only imagine beginners taking much longer than that. It will take them a while to beat hard level campaigns. AA on the other hand is available fairly early. For List, since Explosives' expertise lies in frontier and warzone, which are also Crossfire's specialization, do you think we can let Pavlov do List's job? Not anywhere close in conquests, but good enough for a general costing 3k less. Oh, Pavlov is very good actually for a free general. I invested in him and have no regrets so far. But List might be really helpful in hard mode operations when plenty of Fortresses are present on the battlefield. In frontier or Warzone missions you can place your general with crossfire next to the Fortress and use counterattacks to the full extent. But in Operations we usually attack Fortresses with all available forces and therefore Explosives plays its part. I am still sitting on the fence when we talk about List vs. Hoth. I recall when the game was released the first impressions were as if additional damage is a preferable thing over additional support skills. Then modern war campaigns were released and it turned out that support skills (first of all Rumor) win a day. Now I feel that the damage again has the upper hand. Yet, we have to wait until Modern War challenges and conquests are ready before making our final verdict. It well may be that Rumor will be back as our trump card and Hoth just awaits his finest hour to shine. But there is one more thing. Quite likely we'll get another top tier Tank general as a milestone reward for completing challenge conquests. We already have one Navy, one Aviation and one Infantry generals. All of them are really good, especially by f2p standards. So, it is reasonable to expect that we get two more - one Artillery and one Tank generals. If so, we have to analyze first how difficult is it to unlock them. But quite possible that we won't need neither Hoth nor List in the long run. |
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Post by nimrael on Jun 23, 2024 19:29:29 GMT
I agree with you, that in the expanded challenge conquest pass will be some new generals. An artillery gen probably, but i dont think a good tank general will be included. Wouldnt that make purchase guderian with medals or manstein with money useless?
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Post by tecnoghost on Jun 23, 2024 21:38:42 GMT
I agree with you, that in the expanded challenge conquest pass will be some new generals. An artillery gen probably, but i dont think a good tank general will be included. Wouldnt that make purchase guderian with medals or manstein with money useless? well you can always put a general with all the slots empty, just have fun creating your own monster |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Jun 24, 2024 2:07:42 GMT
If it took you 6 days, I can only imagine beginners taking much longer than that. It will take them a while to beat hard level campaigns. AA on the other hand is available fairly early. For List, since Explosives' expertise lies in frontier and warzone, which are also Crossfire's specialization, do you think we can let Pavlov do List's job? Not anywhere close in conquests, but good enough for a general costing 3k less. Oh, Pavlov is very good actually for a free general. I invested in him and have no regrets so far. But List might be really helpful in hard mode operations when plenty of Fortresses are present on the battlefield. In frontier or Warzone missions you can place your general with crossfire next to the Fortress and use counterattacks to the full extent. But in Operations we usually attack Fortresses with all available forces and therefore Explosives plays its part. I am still sitting on the fence when we talk about List vs. Hoth. I recall when the game was released the first impressions were as if additional damage is a preferable thing over additional support skills. Then modern war campaigns were released and it turned out that support skills (first of all Rumor) win a day. Now I feel that the damage again has the upper hand. Yet, we have to wait until Modern War challenges and conquests are ready before making our final verdict. It well may be that Rumor will be back as our trump card and Hoth just awaits his finest hour to shine. But there is one more thing. Quite likely we'll get another top tier Tank general as a milestone reward for completing challenge conquests. We already have one Navy, one Aviation and one Infantry generals. All of them are really good, especially by f2p standards. So, it is reasonable to expect that we get two more - one Artillery and one Tank generals. If so, we have to analyze first how difficult is it to unlock them. But quite possible that we won't need neither Hoth nor List in the long run. I do agree that we have to wait a few more updates for the final decision, which is why starting with Guderian remain the safest option for beginners. When Raeder came out none of us expected him to go obsolete the next update. A new tank general or Rokossovsky's bio (rumor has it that easytech will make no more bios) can potentially make all 3 silver tank generals less favorable. Although I think you are being a bit too optimistic by thinking easytech will have top tank and artillery generals from challenge conquests. When frontier mode came out with the unit medals, the tank and artillery medals are IAP while the other 3 are F2P. We'd be very lucky to have one other top F2P artillery general from store. Tank? Can't even imagine. |
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Post by stoic on Jun 24, 2024 3:02:51 GMT
Oh, Pavlov is very good actually for a free general. I invested in him and have no regrets so far. But List might be really helpful in hard mode operations when plenty of Fortresses are present on the battlefield. In frontier or Warzone missions you can place your general with crossfire next to the Fortress and use counterattacks to the full extent. But in Operations we usually attack Fortresses with all available forces and therefore Explosives plays its part. I am still sitting on the fence when we talk about List vs. Hoth. I recall when the game was released the first impressions were as if additional damage is a preferable thing over additional support skills. Then modern war campaigns were released and it turned out that support skills (first of all Rumor) win a day. Now I feel that the damage again has the upper hand. Yet, we have to wait until Modern War challenges and conquests are ready before making our final verdict. It well may be that Rumor will be back as our trump card and Hoth just awaits his finest hour to shine. But there is one more thing. Quite likely we'll get another top tier Tank general as a milestone reward for completing challenge conquests. We already have one Navy, one Aviation and one Infantry generals. All of them are really good, especially by f2p standards. So, it is reasonable to expect that we get two more - one Artillery and one Tank generals. If so, we have to analyze first how difficult is it to unlock them. But quite possible that we won't need neither Hoth nor List in the long run. I do agree that we have to wait a few more updates for the final decision, which is why starting with Guderian remain the safest option for beginners. When Raeder came out none of us expected him to go obsolete the next update. A new tank general or Rokossovsky's bio (rumor has it that easytech will make no more bios) can potentially make all 3 silver tank generals less favorable. Although I think you are being a bit too optimistic by thinking easytech will have top tank and artillery generals from challenge conquests. When frontier mode came out with the unit medals, the tank and artillery medals are IAP while the other 3 are F2P. We'd be very lucky to have one other top F2P artillery general from store. Tank? Can't even imagine. Yes, you are probably right. Yet, Darlan is one of the top f2p generals (Next to Yamaguchi), Chennault is definitely the best f2p Air general and the same true about Malinovsky. It takes a time to progress through challenge conquests, but we can expect good rewards in the future, can't we  But, of course, only time will tell... |
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Post by stoic on Jun 26, 2024 10:26:28 GMT
5 months and 2 days of playing and I almost completed formation of my "budget" team. I unlocked Malinovsky yesterday and will get the last milestone reward in the next couple of days. At first my intention was to reward myself for repeating this (rather monotonous ) process by purchasing one of the new cool generals (possibly Brooke or Yamaguchi), but, hey, the second-rate generals are also a fun to play with so, let it be so. I tried to avoid a "baby-faced assassin" Neonen at all costs, but since he is almost a synonym of the word "budget" in WC4 dictionary, I give up. Now here it is my final team. I only plan to get Mountbatten and that is pretty much all. I don't believe that more generals are needed. Now it is time to dig deep and to get them ready for new challenges ahead.   |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on Jun 26, 2024 13:56:53 GMT
Well done! It probably took very precise movements to clear many Challenge runs as soon as possible.
I lack the "greater efficiency" prescribed by Kesselring at Tunisia in GOG3 to clear Challenge Conquests and the like. Chennault is still many future runs away for me.
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Post by stoic on Jun 26, 2024 17:08:41 GMT
Well done! It probably took very precise movements to clear many Challenge runs as soon as possible. I lack the "greater efficiency" prescribed by Kesselring at Tunisia in GOG3 to clear Challenge Conquests and the like. Chennault is still many future runs away for me. As someone said: "Success is a war of attrition. Sure, there is an element of talent you should probably possess, but if you just stick around long enough then something good is going to happen eventually" My conclusion is that there is always a way out in this type of conquests, even if the starting situation seems to be hopeless (Denmark 1939). It is just a matter of discovering what doesn't work. |
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I feel that finances are my Achilles' heel in challenge conquests and since we usually have lots of weak units at the start, it is a good idea to hire such cheap generals with some economic background and just let them stay permanently inside small towns somewhere behind the lines. 
But, of course, only time will tell...
