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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Sept 4, 2016 20:51:32 GMT
Max Otto von Stierlitz , @coolguy14 , I find Konev to be inferior to Bai, as he lacks explosive and plain. Both, as well as Badoglio, are superior to Leeb Konev inferior to Bai? Bai have level 2 plain fighting +10 damage on plain surface, but Konev have +2 artillery stars +12 damage in every situation. Bai have level 2 ace forces, 2 shelter expert and 1 more movement star. Konev has 4 artillery leader, 1 more artillery barrage and 2 anti armour. Not sure, what experience gives, but anyway it can't be better than artillery leader 3. Shelter expert can be quite useful, but I don't think it's better than artillery leader 1, artillery barrage 1. Extra movement star, that's only for field artillery and if you have plain road to the target. Sure, if we speak about price/performance, than for artillery Bai is better, however in that case also need to mention that Konev is good for infantry too. |
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Sept 4, 2016 20:53:14 GMT
Max Otto von Stierlitz , @coolguy14 , I find Konev to be inferior to Bai, as he lacks explosive and plain. Both, as well as Badoglio, are superior to Leeb Konev inferior to Bai? Bai have level 2 plain fighting +10 damage on plain surface, but Konev have +2 artillery stars +12 damage in every situation. Bai have level 2 ace forces, 2 shelter expert and 1 more movement star. Konev has 4 artillery leader, 1 more artillery barrage and 2 anti armour. Not sure, what experience gives, but anyway it can't be better than artillery leader 3. Shelter expert can be quite useful, but I don't think it's better than artillery leader 1, artillery barrage 1. Extra movement star, that's only for field artillery and if you have plain road to the target. Sure, if we speak about price/performance, than for artillery Bai is better, however in that case also need to mention that Konev is good for infantry too. Leader is weak. +2 damage at lvl 4. Ace gives experience, which gives one-time health bonus and raises output. Each Leader lvl is 0.5 extra output |
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Sept 4, 2016 21:16:58 GMT
Leader is weak. +2 damage at lvl 4. Ace gives experience, which gives one-time health bonus and raises output. Each Leader lvl is 0.5 extra output Interesting. Just checked, really artillery leader is not so good as I expected. About 20 extra damage with a 16% chance, that makes about +2 average damage. I think I should investigate ace forces in this case. |
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Post by Der Kaiserreich on Sept 5, 2016 1:14:03 GMT
Interesting. Just checked, really artillery leader is not so good as I expected. About 20 extra damage with a 16% chance, that makes about +2 average damage. I dislike the fact that skills have "good" and "bad" ones. The skills are on the general because they're like that historically. So a historically good general can be bad in the game because of his skills. |
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Post by best75 on Sept 5, 2016 2:54:16 GMT
Max Otto von Stierlitz , @coolguy14 , I find Konev to be inferior to Bai, as he lacks explosive and plain. Both, as well as Badoglio, are superior to Leeb Konev inferior to Bai? Bai have level 2 plain fighting +10 damage on plain surface, but Konev have +2 artillery stars +12 damage in every situation. Bai have level 2 ace forces, 2 shelter expert and 1 more movement star. Konev has 4 artillery leader, 1 more artillery barrage and 2 anti armour. Not sure, what experience gives, but anyway it can't be better than artillery leader 3. Shelter expert can be quite useful, but I don't think it's better than artillery leader 1, artillery barrage 1. Extra movement star, that's only for field artillery and if you have plain road to the target. Sure, if we speak about price/performance, than for artillery Bai is better, however in that case also need to mention that Konev is good for infantry too. Bai's 3 movement is quite good as campaign missions you have a time limit and having 3 movement can mean a extra attack which can be the difference between 2 stars and 3 stars. Ace forces means more experience. More experience means level up faster. Levelling up heals some HP and reduces enemy damage a bit. |
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Sept 5, 2016 7:04:01 GMT
Bai's 3 movement is quite good as campaign missions you have a time limit and having 3 movement can mean a extra attack which can be the difference between 2 stars and 3 stars. Ace forces means more experience. More experience means level up faster. Levelling up heals some HP and reduces enemy damage a bit. After I realized that artillery leader is quite useless, I have changed my mind. However, I need to investigate ace forces closer. Anywhere can be found a description, like how much hp, how many experience needed etc? |
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Sept 5, 2016 7:07:52 GMT
I dislike the fact that skills have "good" and "bad" ones. The skills are on the general because they're like that historically. So a historically good general can be bad in the game because of his skills. shoot happens. There is even bigger problem: some countries, which participated in ww2 are not present in game, and even more, some countries, which participated in ww2, even don't have their cities on the map. |
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Post by best75 on Sept 5, 2016 7:15:16 GMT
Bai's 3 movement is quite good as campaign missions you have a time limit and having 3 movement can mean a extra attack which can be the difference between 2 stars and 3 stars. Ace forces means more experience. More experience means level up faster. Levelling up heals some HP and reduces enemy damage a bit. After I realized that artillery leader is quite useless, I have changed my mind. However, I need to investigate ace forces closer. Anywhere can be found a description, like how much hp, how many experience needed etc? The information is here european-war-4.boards.net/thread/3058/health-packages-ace-forces |
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Sept 5, 2016 7:34:18 GMT
Thx, very useful info. Seems like this skill is not so useful, however, other skills are even less useful. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 7:46:25 GMT
Thx, very useful info. Seems like this skill is not so useful, however, other skills are even less useful. I actually despise ace-forces. I would play better without it. Alternative skills are optimal in my opinion. |
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Post by Quintus Fabius on Sept 5, 2016 14:09:04 GMT
Thx, very useful info. Seems like this skill is not so useful, however, other skills are even less useful. I actually despise ace-forces. I would play better without it. Alternative skills are optimal in my opinion. I actually prefer supply. |
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Sept 5, 2016 16:16:09 GMT
Supply>>Ace IMO, but Ace>Shelter>Street>>>>>>>>>Leader, making it best 5th skill for Arti eye-cover
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Sept 5, 2016 16:35:51 GMT
I actually despise ace-forces. I would play better without it. Alternative skills are optimal in my opinion. For artillery general IMO situation is like this: Sailor - very rare usability. Panzer leader - no effect Camouflage - not effect against aliens, where my general will be used Fleet leader - no effect Infantry leader - no effect Bayonet charge - no effect Street fighting - very rare usability, as in most cases artillery general will attack but not defend cities Jungle fighting - very rare usability Guerrilla - no effect Shelter expert - no effect against aliens Tide of iron - no effect Economic expert - not needed Oil expert - not needed Blitzkrieg - no effect Desert fighting - very rare usability Mountain fighting - very rare usability Wolfpack - no effect Fortification - not needed Industrial expert - not needed Anti-armor - no effect against aliens Raider - no effect Artillery leader - possibly Defence tactic - possibly Ace forces - possibly Explosives - ok Artillery Barrage - ok Plain fighting - ok Supply - ok So we have to choose from artillery leader, defence tactic and ace forces. Artillery leader gives about 2-3 average extra damage per turn not so useful. Defence tactic - can save approx 8% hp. With all bonuses from experience and supply it can't be more than about 30 extra hp. Ace forces - if we assume that it helps to get level 5 where in other situation will be only level 4, it gives the same what defence tactic. Sure, there may be situation, when ace forces gives nothing, if you deal 2340 damage. For me it seems the best choice of these three skills. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 16:38:23 GMT
I actually despise ace-forces. I would play better without it. Alternative skills are optimal in my opinion. For artillery general IMO situation is like this: Sailor - very rare usability. Panzer leader - no effect Camouflage - not effect against aliens, where my general will be used Fleet leader - no effect Infantry leader - no effect Bayonet charge - no effect Street fighting - very rare usability, as in most cases artillery general will attack but not defend cities Jungle fighting - very rare usability Guerrilla - no effect Shelter expert - no effect against aliens Tide of iron - no effect Economic expert - not needed Oil expert - not needed Blitzkrieg - no effect Desert fighting - very rare usability Mountain fighting - very rare usability Wolfpack - no effect Fortification - not needed Industrial expert - not needed Anti-armor - no effect against aliens Raider - no effect Artillery leader - possibly Defence tactic - possibly Ace forces - possibly Explosives - ok Artillery Barrage - ok Plain fighting - ok Supply - ok So we have to choose from artillery leader, defence tactic and ace forces. Artillery leader gives about 2-3 average extra damage per turn not so useful. Defence tactic - can save approx 8% hp. With all bonuses from experience and supply it can't be more than about 30 extra hp. Ace forces - if we assume that it helps to get level 5 where in other situation will be only level 4, it gives the same what defence tactic. Sure, there may be situation, when ace forces gives nothing, if you deal 2340 damage. For me it seems the best choice of these three skills. I'm against all of the three skills you listed...  |
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Sept 5, 2016 17:01:25 GMT
For artillery general IMO situation is like this: Sailor - very rare usability. Panzer leader - no effect Camouflage - not effect against aliens, where my general will be used Fleet leader - no effect Infantry leader - no effect Bayonet charge - no effect Street fighting - very rare usability, as in most cases artillery general will attack but not defend cities Jungle fighting - very rare usability Guerrilla - no effect Shelter expert - no effect against aliens Tide of iron - no effect Economic expert - not needed Oil expert - not needed Blitzkrieg - no effect Desert fighting - very rare usability Mountain fighting - very rare usability Wolfpack - no effect Fortification - not needed Industrial expert - not needed Anti-armor - no effect against aliens Raider - no effect Artillery leader - possibly Defence tactic - possibly Ace forces - possibly Explosives - ok Artillery Barrage - ok Plain fighting - ok Supply - ok So we have to choose from artillery leader, defence tactic and ace forces. Artillery leader gives about 2-3 average extra damage per turn not so useful. Defence tactic - can save approx 8% hp. With all bonuses from experience and supply it can't be more than about 30 extra hp. Ace forces - if we assume that it helps to get level 5 where in other situation will be only level 4, it gives the same what defence tactic. Sure, there may be situation, when ace forces gives nothing, if you deal 2340 damage. For me it seems the best choice of these three skills. I'm against all of the three skills you listed... For alien, those are the better skills, unless you want an arti city defender. For Cold War, shelter is viable |
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