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Post by Singlemalt on Mar 29, 2017 5:41:54 GMT
When i have the time I will try to seperate this thread in two. Very interesting discussion. Please try to open a new thread on such a specific new question
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Post by andrei on Mar 29, 2017 8:16:25 GMT
So I think it has nothing to do with defense. 3 simple reasons: 1. Description of the skill says nothing about defense (but says clearly about damage reduction). 2. Defense stats do not change after skills are triggered. 3. Dynamics of damage reduction fits well in what I've said above (though of course further experiments are necessary). So anyone who thinks otherwise, should explain: a) Why description of the skill says nothing about defense. b) Why we do not see any increase of defense (while we see increase clearly with Commander skill). c) He should give explanation of how this skill is connected with defense stats (and a clear one, not an obscure one) The burden of proof, you know :-):-):-):-) It looks like it has nothing to do with defense and with HP. So it is totally defferent. According to Your survey it appeared to be kind of Leadership with aura (as if enemies are affected by Leadership while attacking the units inside the aura). Well... in that case the skill is overestimated imo, as Leadership is cheap and You normally have enough generals with Leadership in Your team (at least I do). Let's see what Erich von Manstein could explain. Chinese players always prosect the ET games in details
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Post by stoic on Mar 29, 2017 8:36:01 GMT
So I think it has nothing to do with defense. 3 simple reasons: 1. Description of the skill says nothing about defense (but says clearly about damage reduction). 2. Defense stats do not change after skills are triggered. 3. Dynamics of damage reduction fits well in what I've said above (though of course further experiments are necessary). So anyone who thinks otherwise, should explain: a) Why description of the skill says nothing about defense. b) Why we do not see any increase of defense (while we see increase clearly with Commander skill). c) He should give explanation of how this skill is connected with defense stats (and a clear one, not an obscure one) The burden of proof, you know :-):-):-):-) It looks like it has nothing to do with defense and with HP. So it is totally defferent. According to Your survey it appeared to be kind of Leadership with aura (as if enemies are affected by Leadership while attacking the units inside the aura). Well... in that case the skill is overestimated imo, as Leadership is cheap and You normally have enough generals with Leadership in Your team (at least I do). Let's see what Erich von Manstein could explain. Chinese players always prosect the ET games in details Yes, it possible as well... But in that case it still has something to do with HP. For our generals lose HP and not defense. The difference between Leadership and Armor Master could be that potential damage will be reduced in first case, and actual damage in the second... Yes, very possible...
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Post by andrei on Mar 29, 2017 8:40:29 GMT
It looks like it has nothing to do with defense and with HP. So it is totally defferent. According to Your survey it appeared to be kind of Leadership with aura (as if enemies are affected by Leadership while attacking the units inside the aura). Well... in that case the skill is overestimated imo, as Leadership is cheap and You normally have enough generals with Leadership in Your team (at least I do). Let's see what Erich von Manstein could explain. Chinese players always prosect the ET games in details Yes, it possible as well... But in that case it still has something to do with HP. For our generals lose HP and not defense. What do You mean? What is the connection with HP? It is not Your defense or HP, it is about the attack of the enemy as I understood.
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Post by stoic on Mar 29, 2017 8:48:00 GMT
Yes, it possible as well... But in that case it still has something to do with HP. For our generals lose HP and not defense. What do You mean? What is the connection with HP? It is not Your defense or HP, it is about the attack of the enemy as I understood. Well if you are right, connection is the same as with Leadership: damage is reduced - you loose less HP than usual - you have better chances for survival It is an indirect connection in some sense but it is there...
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Post by andrei on Mar 29, 2017 8:52:45 GMT
What do You mean? What is the connection with HP? It is not Your defense or HP, it is about the attack of the enemy as I understood. Well if you are right, connection is the same as with Leadership: damage is reduced - you loose less HP than usual - you have better chances for survival It is an indirect connection in some sense but it is there... we were speaking about direct connection (%, proportion etc.). Any damage is somehow connected with HP lose In case the mechanis of the skill is like You investigated then it is less convenient than Leadership even though it is an aura skill. With Leadership it is a direct debuff. And after the enemy is debuffed You could take any position on the map and act freely for couple of turns. Armor Master at the same time will require Your placement inside the aura for all the duration time.
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Post by stoic on Mar 29, 2017 8:56:15 GMT
Well if you are right, connection is the same as with Leadership: damage is reduced - you loose less HP than usual - you have better chances for survival It is an indirect connection in some sense but it is there... we were speaking about direct connection (%, proportion etc.). Any damage is somehow connected with HP lose No, no, no I've always spoken about that obvious indirect connection
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Post by stoic on Mar 29, 2017 9:00:27 GMT
Well if you are right, connection is the same as with Leadership: damage is reduced - you loose less HP than usual - you have better chances for survival It is an indirect connection in some sense but it is there... we were speaking about direct connection (%, proportion etc.). Any damage is somehow connected with HP lose In case the mechanis of the skill is like You investigated then it is less convenient than Leadership even though it is an aura skill. With Leadership it is a direct debuff. And after the enemy is debuffed You could take any position on the map and act freely for couple of turns. Armor Master at the same time will require Your placement inside the aura for all the duration time. On the other hand, the second Master makes it more effective (what Leadership lacks...)
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Post by andrei on Mar 29, 2017 9:01:42 GMT
we were speaking about direct connection (%, proportion etc.). Any damage is somehow connected with HP lose In case the mechanis of the skill is like You investigated then it is less convenient than Leadership even though it is an aura skill. With Leadership it is a direct debuff. And after the enemy is debuffed You could take any position on the map and act freely for couple of turns. Armor Master at the same time will require Your placement inside the aura for all the duration time. On the other hand, the second Master makes it more effective (what Leadership lacks...) Leadership also stacks. But in my opinion it is excessive. One debuff makes the enemy quite weak normally.
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Post by stoic on Mar 29, 2017 9:04:01 GMT
On the other hand, the second Master makes it more effective (what Leadership lacks...) Leadership also stacks. But only marginally I suppose... Or not? Never seen it...
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Post by andrei on Mar 29, 2017 9:16:46 GMT
But only marginally I suppose... Or not? Never seen it... And what is the impact of the second Armor Master?
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Post by stoic on Mar 29, 2017 9:19:19 GMT
And we have forgotten one advantage - 3 turns instead of 2...
But, yes, for that price Leadership looks better.
Maybe in the end it works different way, but it seems to me that defense stats have nothing to do with it (no reason why increase should be hidden)
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Post by stoic on Mar 29, 2017 9:21:48 GMT
But only marginally I suppose... Or not? Never seen it... And what is the impact of the second Armor Master? He reduces damage by another 50% For example 600-(1)300-(2)150
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Post by andrei on Mar 29, 2017 9:24:18 GMT
And what is the impact of the second Armor Master? He reduces damage by another 50% For example 600-(1)300-(2)150 2nd Leadership works same way. So it will also be marginal.
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Post by stoic on Mar 29, 2017 10:47:08 GMT
Another advantage is that it works not for one or two targets, but for all. It is Leadership applied to all enemies at the same time. Sounds not bad to me.
So, advantages: 1. 3 turns 2. Applied to all enemies
Disadvantages: 1. More expensive than Leadership 2. It works only within limited space.
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