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Post by andrei on Mar 28, 2017 12:53:39 GMT
By the very end of the game I also used Li Hongzhang. But if choosing again between Atilla-Blucher against Khan-Barbarossa.. I'ld still choose Khan-Barbarossa. Why? My team is archer focused. I need to cover and protect archers. Atilla is more or less the same as Khan - a bit weaker. Barbarossa is better for me, because of Leadership (2nd best skill in the game) and Samurai. He can debuff everybody around for quite a long time before he is dead and his attack power is constant. But Blucher has Plunder and Rumor (I presume your first best skill) and good attacking chances with Attila’s Leadership. And how on earth Attila with Commander skill and Blucher’s Armor Master could be worse than Khan? By the way chances for survival double for the whole team with Blucher, not only for Attila. ps But I think that in 6 slots you did not use Li (and, as I remember, you only took him for the last mission) 1st best skill is Commander (of course if used in a proper team). I said their skills will be worse for my team and tactic. You proposed to look at this comparison regarding the usefulness in my team. So in my team Archers is the main firepower (Nobunaga, Washington, Nelson, Li Hongzhang). And Khan-Barbarossa function is to cover and support archer team. Khan is normally mopping up and cover the Archers on the first line. Barbarossa debuffs and blocks the way to the archers. Blucher can't replace him. Why double chances with Blucher? He provides only 50% higher deff, not 100%. And Deff is not HP  Between Armor Master and Leadership I take Leadership as I prefer to attack strong enemies with all my archers and to escape receiving high damage. In case I would use Yi Sun Sin with Blucher, yes, plus 100% deff is very visible and solid. In that case I would probably go for Atilla-Blucher instead of Khan-Barbarossa. But again I am concerned about the possibility to have enough place on the map in a particular moment to place all the units (dependent on the team skills) efficiently. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Mar 28, 2017 13:53:20 GMT
But Blucher has Plunder and Rumor (I presume your first best skill) and good attacking chances with Attila’s Leadership. And how on earth Attila with Commander skill and Blucher’s Armor Master could be worse than Khan? By the way chances for survival double for the whole team with Blucher, not only for Attila. ps But I think that in 6 slots you did not use Li (and, as I remember, you only took him for the last mission) 1st best skill is Commander (of course if used in a proper team). I said their skills will be worse for my team and tactic. You proposed to look at this comparison regarding the usefulness in my team. So in my team Archers is the main firepower (Nobunaga, Washington, Nelson, Li Hongzhang). And Khan-Barbarossa function is to cover and support archer team. Khan is normally mopping up and cover the Archers on the first line. Barbarossa debuffs and blocks the way to the archers. Blucher can't replace him. Why double chances with Blucher? He provides only 50% higher deff, not 100%. And Deff is not HP Between Armor Master and Leadership I take Leadership as I prefer to attack strong enemies with all my archers and to escape receiving high damage. In case I would use Yi Sun Sin with Blucher, yes, plus 100% deff is very visible and solid. In that case I would probably go for Atilla-Blucher instead of Khan-Barbarossa. But again I am concerned about the possibility to have enough place on the map in a particular moment to place all the units (dependent on the team skills) efficiently. Defense is good, as high as possible, because regain is after the combat, and damage reduction is during it. Yi with Blucher is 125% extra, not just 100, it's multiplication. Blucher's Rumor is great also, and he has Plunder, makes him last much longer than Barbarossa. We don't say Blucher is the best team defensive support cavalry for no reason. |
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Post by stoic on Mar 28, 2017 13:53:22 GMT
But Blucher has Plunder and Rumor (I presume your first best skill) and good attacking chances with Attila’s Leadership. And how on earth Attila with Commander skill and Blucher’s Armor Master could be worse than Khan? By the way chances for survival double for the whole team with Blucher, not only for Attila. ps But I think that in 6 slots you did not use Li (and, as I remember, you only took him for the last mission) 1st best skill is Commander (of course if used in a proper team). I said their skills will be worse for my team and tactic. You proposed to look at this comparison regarding the usefulness in my team. So in my team Archers is the main firepower (Nobunaga, Washington, Nelson, Li Hongzhang). And Khan-Barbarossa function is to cover and support archer team. Khan is normally mopping up and cover the Archers on the first line. Barbarossa debuffs and blocks the way to the archers. Blucher can't replace him. Why double chances with Blucher? He provides only 50% higher deff, not 100%. And Deff is not HP Between Armor Master and Leadership I take Leadership as I prefer to attack strong enemies with all my archers and to escape receiving high damage. In case I would use Yi Sun Sin with Blucher, yes, plus 100% deff is very visible and solid. In that case I would probably go for Atilla-Blucher instead of Khan-Barbarossa. But again I am concerned about the possibility to have enough place on the map in a particular moment to place all the units (dependent on the team skills) efficiently. Ok I really think, that it is an improvement of your team :-) 1. I'm afraid Blucher's Armor Master has nothing to do with armor :-) (and thus with defense stats of your team). It reduces damage to your generals. So: a) it basically connected with HP (your units lose only half of the points at lvl 10 of the skill). b) so it doubels chances for survival. c) it could not work with another Armor master (you can not have 100% damage reduction) 2. With this skill in mind not only your team could profit greatly, but Blucher is a great shild of your team: a)His rumor works in defense as well as in offence (great advantage I think). b)He will be attacked not only by dangerous units, but by non-general units. Thus 15% HP restoration works again in defense as well as in offence. c) His main problem is attack, but Attila's skill increases it by 50%. I think that all that is better for your team than all that Barbarossa could offer. 2. Attila with his Commander skill and damage reduction from Blucher could do Khan's job in your team, but far more effective (50% attack increase + 50% damage decrease in comparison to Khan). 3. So the most interesting argument of you is a problem with placement of those units. But I am sure that such experienced player as you could find perfect places for those generals to maximize their strengths. :-) :-) :-) :-) |
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Post by andrei on Mar 28, 2017 14:01:12 GMT
1st best skill is Commander (of course if used in a proper team). I said their skills will be worse for my team and tactic. You proposed to look at this comparison regarding the usefulness in my team. So in my team Archers is the main firepower (Nobunaga, Washington, Nelson, Li Hongzhang). And Khan-Barbarossa function is to cover and support archer team. Khan is normally mopping up and cover the Archers on the first line. Barbarossa debuffs and blocks the way to the archers. Blucher can't replace him. Why double chances with Blucher? He provides only 50% higher deff, not 100%. And Deff is not HP Between Armor Master and Leadership I take Leadership as I prefer to attack strong enemies with all my archers and to escape receiving high damage. In case I would use Yi Sun Sin with Blucher, yes, plus 100% deff is very visible and solid. In that case I would probably go for Atilla-Blucher instead of Khan-Barbarossa. But again I am concerned about the possibility to have enough place on the map in a particular moment to place all the units (dependent on the team skills) efficiently. Defense is good, as high as possible, because regain is after the combat, and damage reduction is during it. Yi with Blucher is 125% extra, not just 100, it's multiplication. Blucher's Rumor is great also, and he has Plunder, makes him last much longer than Barbarossa. We don't say Blucher is the best team defensive support cavalry for no reason. Yeah, 125% - my mistake. As I said with Yi Sun Sin I would probably choose this variant. I am very fond of Rumor. But to utilise both Rumor with Armor and to stay alive... don't know. I like Artillery with Rumor because of the ranged attack (no counter attack). So there are no problems in case Rumor is not triggered. But Blucher has no Braveness, so he will receive enormous damage (and in case Rumor is not triggered it is a catastrophy). |
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Post by stoic on Mar 28, 2017 14:01:37 GMT
We should clarify what Armor master does exactly. Description says it reduces damage by ... percent.
So as I understand it is HP damage reduction and you can not have 100% damage reduction. Am I wrong?
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Post by andrei on Mar 28, 2017 14:14:36 GMT
Ok I really think, that it is an improvement of your team :-) 1. I'm afraid Blucher's Armor Master has nothing to do with armor :-) (and thus with defense stats of your team). It reduces damage to your generals. So: a) it basically connected with HP (your units lose only half of the points at lvl 10 of the skill). b) so it doubels chances for survival. c) it could not work with another Armor master (you can not have 100% damage reduction) 2. With this skill in mind not only your team could profit greatly, but Blucher is a great shild of your team: a)His rumor works in defense as well as in offence (great advantage I think). b)He will be attacked not only by dangerous units, but by non-general units. Thus 15% HP restoration works again in defense as well as in offence. c) His main problem is attack, but Attila's skill increases it by 50%. I all that is better for your team than all that Barbarossa could offer. 2. Attila with his Commander skill and damage reduction from Blucher could do Khan's job in your team, but far more effective (50% attack increase + 50% damage decrease in comparison to Khan). 3. So the most interesting argument of you is a problem with placement of those units. But I am sure that such experienced player as you could find perfect places for those generals to maximize their strengths. :-) :-) :-) :-) 1) You are wrong ;-) 2) I described my concern about Rumor for melee attack in my answer to Erich von Manstein . I think that it is very easy to lose the general just in one turn. Rumor is great when used against the strongest enemy. That is why it is so good for Artillery. For melee combat its effectiveness is much much lower imo. As You will receive counter attack and trigger chance leaves You with high possibility that this extremely strong enemy will kill You next turn ;-) |
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Post by stoic on Mar 28, 2017 14:23:33 GMT
Could you explain, because I do not understand what Blucher's damage reduction does in that case...
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Post by andrei on Mar 28, 2017 14:25:37 GMT
Could you explain, because I do not understand what Blucher's damage reduction does in that case... It applies to Your deff stat. And it stacks same way as Commander skill. |
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Post by stoic on Mar 28, 2017 14:38:34 GMT
Could you explain, because I do not understand what Blucher's damage reduction does in that case... It applies to Your deff stat. And it stacks same way as Commander skill. Strange... Description has none of it... But maybe ET's hermeneutics skills are considerable :-) So you mean that Blucher basically increases defense by 50% (at lvl 10)? |
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Post by andrei on Mar 28, 2017 14:44:58 GMT
It applies to Your deff stat. And it stacks same way as Commander skill. Strange... Description has none of it... But maybe ET's hermeneutics skills are considerable :-) So you mean that Blucher basically increases defense by 50% (at lvl 10)? Yes ) |
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Post by stoic on Mar 28, 2017 14:55:04 GMT
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Post by andrei on Mar 28, 2017 15:16:13 GMT
And? )
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Post by stoic on Mar 28, 2017 15:20:19 GMT
(says triumphantly) Wait a minute. It is not easy to upload these pics from phone :-) |
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Post by stoic on Mar 28, 2017 15:43:37 GMT
Voi-la (I mean you should go to the previous page) :-) :-)
I do not see any increase in defense after Armor master is triggered. So maybe I am not that wrong after all and description of the skill is straightforward ;-)
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Post by TK421 on Mar 28, 2017 15:45:28 GMT
I love how this started out as which generals should be bought first, and now it's an all out debate XD I love this forum.
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