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Post by Gone on Jul 31, 2019 23:55:11 GMT
My first run at Wc4, I got Mannerheim. Infantry is the only troop that doesn't have a debuff in forests. To compare, Forests are more common than cities They both have raider. They both have elastic defense. They can both have infantry leader. Rundstedt can have Guerilla or Bayonet charge. Mannerheim if positioned in the common forest>Rundstedt with Bayonet charge If rundstedt has guerilla it is a question of survivability vs damage. I'm very sorry Rundstedt, but I prefer Mannerheim. Its okay, Mannerheim is great. Im not sure, but I believe troops are actually buffed in terrains.
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Post by Gone on Aug 12, 2019 23:48:59 GMT
You know, I’m starting to question why Yamashita is rated higher than Rundstedt.
Let’s look at their ranks. Rundstedt is a Major General while Yamashita is a colonel. This is a 300 Medal difference between their ranks which is considerable.
Now let’s look at their stars. Yamashita starts out 3 stars faster than Rundstedt, but Rundstedt can have 4 stars movement for a price of like 500-600 medals. 1 hex speed difference is practically unnoticeable, like Manstein's speed and Guderian's. Both Rundstedt and Yamashita have the same Infantry stars, which are 6.
Let’s look at their skills. Yamashita has Bayonet Charge, Ace Forces and Raider while Rundstedt has Street Fighting, Elastic Defense and Raider. Both can have 2 more skills, which in Yamashita's case the most recommended are Infantry Leader and Guerrilla, while in Rundstedt's case it’s Infantry Leader and Raider. This will result in the only difference between the two being that Rundstedt has Street Fighting and Elastic Defense while Yamashita has Bayonet Charge and Ace Forces. Street Fighting can be useful if Rundstedt is besieged, but Elastic Defense is useless. Meanwhile, Yamashita has Bayonet Charge, which is arguably only useful on a Commando, and Ace Forces, which I don’t find that useful because Infantry has relatively low stats and the Commandos are mostly mediocre or good since they can be taken out at range by Howitzers, Rocket Artillery, Super Artillery, Super Rockets, Heavy Tanks and Super Tanks. This means that Yamashita will struggle to level up quickly unless he frequently goes to cities with hospitals to heal, which is counterproductive for someone with an Infantry role.
Now let’s look at their prices. Rundstedt full discount is like 1300 medals while Yamashita is like 2300. This is a 1000 Medal difference which is quite high.
My verdict is that they are equals, to say the least. At most Rundstedt is more cost effective. Both have similar stats and 3 potentially useful skills with a 4th and 5th not so useful skills. For the price difference between Yamashita and 40% Rundstedt, you can give him his other 2 movement stars and give him his remaining skills. Meanwhile Yamashita will have to start from a hefty price and buy his other 2 skills. The fact that their skills are of similar levels doesn’t help Yamashita's case.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Aug 13, 2019 0:10:21 GMT
You know, I’m starting to question why Yamashita is rated higher than Rundstedt. Let’s look at their ranks. Rundstedt is a Major General while Yamashita is a colonel. This is a 300 Medal difference between their ranks which is considerable. Now let’s look at their stars. Yamashita starts out 3 stars faster than Rundstedt, but Rundstedt can have 4 stars movement for a price of like 500-600 medals. 1 hex speed difference is practically unnoticeable, like Manstein's speed and Guderian's. Both Rundstedt and Yamashita have the same Infantry stars, which are 6. Let’s look at their skills. Yamashita has Bayonet Charge, Ace Forces and Raider while Rundstedt has Street Fighting, Elastic Defense and Raider. Both can have 2 more skills, which in Yamashita's case the most recommended are Infantry Leader and Guerrilla, while in Rundstedt's case it’s Infantry Leader and Raider. This will result in the only difference between the two being that Rundstedt has Street Fighting and Elastic Defense while Yamashita has Bayonet Charge and Ace Forces. Street Fighting can be useful if Rundstedt is besieged, but Elastic Defense is useless. Meanwhile, Yamashita has Bayonet Charge, which is arguably only useful on a Commando, and Ace Forces, which I don’t find that useful because Infantry has relatively low stats and the Commandos are mostly mediocre or good since they can be taken out at range by Howitzers, Rocket Artillery, Super Artillery, Super Rockets, Heavy Tanks and Super Tanks. This means that Yamashita will struggle to level up quickly unless he frequently goes to cities with hospitals to heal, which is counterproductive for someone with an Infantry role. Now let’s look at their prices. Rundstedt full discount is like 1300 medals while Yamashita is like 2300. This is a 1000 Medal difference which is quite high. My verdict is that they are equals, to say the least. At most Rundstedt is more cost effective. Both have similar stats and 3 potentially useful skills with a 4th and 5th not so useful skills. For the price difference between Yamashita and 40% Rundstedt, you can give him his other 2 movement stars and give him his remaining skills. Meanwhile Yamashita will have to start from a hefty price and buy his other 2 skills. The fact that their skills are of similar levels doesn’t help Yamashita's case. Urban fighting and Elastic defense are useless. Guerilla is also not very helpful beyond ww2 conquests playing as 1 star nations. Yamashita’s extra 3 movement stars, ace forces + bayonet charge, and additional skill slot will make him a superior option. Basically, if you want guerilla on your general, get Rundstendt. You want a terrain bonus? Get Mannerheim. If you want something else (explosives... rumor... replacement), get yamashita.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Aug 13, 2019 0:13:02 GMT
No wait, if you want a terrain bonus you can also give Macarthur pf + raider. He will actually be a very strong city defender when needed, enough to deal great damage to cities, and being better as an offensive general.
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Post by Gone on Aug 13, 2019 0:35:27 GMT
No wait, if you want a terrain bonus you can also give Macarthur pf + raider. He will actually be a very strong city defender when needed, enough to deal great damage to cities, and being better as an offensive general. Uff, who am I trying to deceive? I might replace Gerd with Yamashita once I get more medals. Your points are very good, Paulus! And yet you present them in a factual way!
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Post by Gone on Aug 13, 2019 1:14:29 GMT
No wait, if you want a terrain bonus you can also give Macarthur pf + raider. He will actually be a very strong city defender when needed, enough to deal great damage to cities, and being better as an offensive general. I highly admire Douglas in real-life but I can’t take him seriously in-game when he is an antagonist. All that I need is Manstein or Guderian in a Heavy Tank, trigger Panzer Leader and MacArthur is no more.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Aug 13, 2019 1:36:40 GMT
No wait, if you want a terrain bonus you can also give Macarthur pf + raider. He will actually be a very strong city defender when needed, enough to deal great damage to cities, and being better as an offensive general. I highly admire Douglas in real-life but I can’t take him seriously in-game when he is an antagonist. All that I need is Manstein or Guderian in a Heavy Tank, trigger Panzer Leader and MacArthur is no more. Thats true of yamashita as well. Even more amusing is when you catch macarthur and patton at sea during 1943 japan
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Post by Jeanne d'Arc on Aug 13, 2019 13:09:43 GMT
You can even use your own Douggie Macarthur and the enemy clone of him is no more as long as your own has Raider and Rumour on him, let Rumor and Infantry Leader trigger together a bunch, and the enemy is dead. Make sure you blockade on land so your general can do his thing with the enemy at sea.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Aug 13, 2019 15:57:50 GMT
You can even use your own Douggie Macarthur and the enemy clone of him is no more as long as your own has Raider and Rumour on him, let Rumor and Infantry Leader trigger together a bunch, and the enemy is dead. Make sure you blockade on land so your general can do his thing with the enemy at sea. I agree. Macarthur Rundstendt and Yamashita start out terrible with no upgrades. Mannerheim and Nasser, even without any upgrades, are stronger than the two and will get the job done. Really for Mannerheim, all you gotta is give him infantry leader lvl 3, and for a cheaper price than yamashita, it will be like comparing guderian to model
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Post by Gone on Aug 13, 2019 20:03:59 GMT
You can even use your own Douggie Macarthur and the enemy clone of him is no more as long as your own has Raider and Rumour on him, let Rumor and Infantry Leader trigger together a bunch, and the enemy is dead. Make sure you blockade on land so your general can do his thing with the enemy at sea. I agree. Macarthur Rundstendt and Yamashita start out terrible with no upgrades. Mannerheim and Nasser, even without any upgrades, are stronger than the two and will get the job done. Really for Mannerheim, all you gotta is give him infantry leader lvl 3, and for a cheaper price than yamashita, it will be like comparing guderian to model I will likely replace Gerd with Carl. The only medal that I need now is the Raider medal. I already have the Jungle Fighting Medal and the Infantry Leader medal.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Aug 13, 2019 20:27:31 GMT
I agree. Macarthur Rundstendt and Yamashita start out terrible with no upgrades. Mannerheim and Nasser, even without any upgrades, are stronger than the two and will get the job done. Really for Mannerheim, all you gotta is give him infantry leader lvl 3, and for a cheaper price than yamashita, it will be like comparing guderian to model I will likely replace Gerd with Carl. The only medal that I need now is the Raider medal. I already have the Jungle Fighting Medal and the Infantry Leader medal. Karl and Carl (Mannerheim are very similar). Karl does the same thing to cavarly units that manstein does to mannerheim once his panzer leader triggers.
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Post by Gone on Aug 13, 2019 20:38:52 GMT
Yup.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Aug 15, 2019 17:12:00 GMT
In terms of the fun factor, I have to say that either yamashita with replacement or rundtsendt with guerilla are the way to go. Or even yamashita with rumor. That way you can put them on the mountaineer commandos, finish commandos, egyptian commandos... anytime you want and they will be very strong, while also dealing good damage on mechanised units
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Post by Gone on Aug 15, 2019 19:14:30 GMT
In terms of the fun factor, I have to say that either yamashita with replacement or rundtsendt with guerilla are the way to go. Or even yamashita with rumor. That way you can put them on the mountaineer commandos, finish commandos, egyptian commandos... anytime you want and they will be very strong, while also dealing good damage on mechanised units Yep. But destroying the enemies with god-tier generals such as Guderian and Konev provide enough fun for me.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Aug 15, 2019 19:17:09 GMT
In terms of the fun factor, I have to say that either yamashita with replacement or rundtsendt with guerilla are the way to go. Or even yamashita with rumor. That way you can put them on the mountaineer commandos, finish commandos, egyptian commandos... anytime you want and they will be very strong, while also dealing good damage on mechanised units Yep. But destroying the enemies with god-tier generals such as Guderian and Konev provide enough fun for me. Kind of true. But what if you have to play as australia and use commandos that put guderian to shame. And what if you plant to play as a weak undeveloped nation such as cuba or mongolia.
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