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Post by General William T. Sherman on Nov 15, 2015 21:11:45 GMT
We'd appreciate if you also conveyed our opinions to the Chinese forum and have our opinions not be criticized because other people don't agree with ours. There are many approaches to this game, so there is no one concrete way of how to play.
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Post by andrei on Nov 15, 2015 21:32:04 GMT
Siege Master in the Chinese opinion is the Bugle/Accurate/Strike lite version, deprives city's evasion. What does it mean? In EW4 there are no hit points for factory/stable/city like in WC3. We are shooting the unit, not the city.
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Post by Mountbatten on Nov 15, 2015 21:40:10 GMT
Units probably have more defense when they are on cities. Siege master takes away that defense bonus.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 15, 2015 23:56:00 GMT
Siege Master in the Chinese opinion is the Bugle/Accurate/Strike lite version, deprives city's evasion. What does it mean? In EW4 there are no hit points for factory/stable/city like in WC3. We are shooting the unit, not the city. Cities could evade some of the damage from all units, and the four skills can deprise the evasion. The only difference is that SM only works for cities, the other three works for everywhere.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 16, 2015 0:01:17 GMT
And if Geography is what makes him so good then buy a war horse. A war horse takes a slot, that cannot make Golitzyn run 6 hex everywhere. Another advantage of Berthier is that he has more training stars. Berthier has strong skills, but his star is so DUUUUUUUUUMB!
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 16, 2015 0:15:30 GMT
Hmm... So in your opinion, Formation is definitely good, but Infantry Tactic is to avoid low damage, right?
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 16, 2015 0:19:51 GMT
We'd appreciate if you also conveyed our opinions to the Chinese forum and have our opinions not be criticized because other people don't agree with ours. There are many approaches to this game, so there is no one concrete way of how to play. I am neutral this time because I am a Chinese and I also serve here. I will just simply post what they say. I think it will be a better idea that we based on their comments and something else we know about this game, and I will send it there. Is it fine?
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Post by General William T. Sherman on Nov 16, 2015 0:23:22 GMT
We'd appreciate if you also conveyed our opinions to the Chinese forum and have our opinions not be criticized because other people don't agree with ours. There are many approaches to this game, so there is no one concrete way of how to play. I am neutral this time because I am a Chinese and I also serve here. I will just simply post what they say. I think it will be a better idea that we based on their comments and something else we know about this game, and I will send it there. Is it fine? Diffusion of both our forums and the Chinese forums ideas and opinions is the best way to figure out how to do well in these games. So we love their feedback! Or at least I do. I just don't want our guides and strategies to be based solely on guides and strategies from the Chinese Forum. So sending our info over there and having their response back like you said is just fine
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Post by saltin on Nov 16, 2015 4:08:57 GMT
I think it's great that we have contact with the other Easytech fan communities as this can help bring more game knowledge and maybe even start new friendships. Having said that even within our own community there is often disagreement about what is best,and I am sure it's the same everywhere else and that's to be expected.
All game ideas and knowledge is fine,but the most convincing and the one that has the biggest impact though is the one backed numbers,facts,data analysis,game file hexes,and logic.Meaning in general it's much better to show how we arrive to a conclusion if we want to convince others of our arguments.In other words I will not simply state X,Y,or Z is the best,I will instead show you how I got to that conclusion.Not only will that convince you (if you agreed with me) but now you can make the same statement knowing you yourself can back it up with fairly solid evidence.
In other words,the "why" or "how" we got to think the way we do is often just as important as the "what" we think.
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Post by rickandmorty on Nov 16, 2015 5:45:03 GMT
Wow neat generals u got there..how much damage do they inflict.suvorov look like he can one shot a gaurd cavalry with that fire power
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Post by andrei on Nov 16, 2015 6:31:42 GMT
What does it mean? In EW4 there are no hit points for factory/stable/city like in WC3. We are shooting the unit, not the city. Cities could evade some of the damage from all units, and the four skills can deprise the evasion. The only difference is that SM only works for cities, the other three works for everywhere. Is there any statistics from the chinese comrades regarding the real impact of that skill? Maybe I couldn't see solid damage difference... but I think it is not that great. Anyway even in case it is perceptible there is no logic in the opinion that Siege Master is useful while Infantry tactics is useless. Siege Master is situational skill anyway while those called useless are very important passive skills that work all the situations.
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Post by NetherFreek on Nov 16, 2015 7:21:35 GMT
well, the problem is that generals are a personal point of vieuw. some people like movement, some people like training because of the health the new rank gives etc.... the one thinks a general is great the other thinks that general is crap etc...
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Post by kanue on Nov 16, 2015 7:38:03 GMT
Here're my opinions
Berthier vs Golytisin Costs to upgrade Berthier is, yes, insane. In normal circumstance, I would not spend that for a geography skill. But if you play this game a lot, you will reach a point where you have all the items you need and other generals are fully upgraded so you will have no use for medals (thanks for the grinding method). At this point, I do not mind upgrading Berthier because he has better potential than Golytsin (warhorse grants him geography but also takes up one item slot) and I have spared medals. In fact, I am now searching for Agha to train him. So, who is better? It's up to player's preference and constraint. If you are progressing the campaigns, you probably have limited medals so Golytsin can be a better choice. But if you want a good end game cavalry general (excludes emblem generals and princess), go for Berthier.
Surprise vs Mobility (and other varieties) Surprise increases max dmg and Mobility adds min dmg. Statistically, they give the same expected (average) output so I do not think the claim that "Mobility is useless" is a valid fact, it is an opinion. The difference is the standard deviation (range) of damage; Surprise -> wider (high SD) and mobility -> narrower (low SD). As for my preference, I like a narrower range (low SD) of damage because I can predict my output more accurately and know whether I can make a kill. This is crucial for a cavalry general since you probably do not want a bad luck that a low damage would come out and make you miss the kill. A max rolled damage can be a waste due to an overkill but improved min damage is always useful. This is also a reason why I prefer Suvorov (with combat skills) to Victoria (with assault art). Anyway, a wider damage range means more uncertainty and it's uncertainty that makes a weaker general defeat a stronger one. So, in my opinion, Mobility skill (and their variations) is far from useless. It ultimately depends on player's preference.
Savary vs Ney vs Sulkowski "Savary is better than Ney if they are not attacking someone in a city" is probably based on an assumption that Mobility is useless which, as I previously argue, is not necessary true. Fireproof is not very useful for cavalry since you can always move away and the fire damage is laughable (I normally consider it as a special effect to make the battle look...cool). Siege Master is situational but, as a cavalry general, it is quite common that you attack a unit stationing in town then capture the town in the same turn so this "situaltional" is more probable for cavalry than others. Sulkowski is pretty decent. Too bad, I previously did not notice him.
Accurate, Bugle, Strike Accurate, Bugle, and Strike are great skills as I statistically proved that in other thread. I normally consider them the most important skills for each unit type.
Leadership Skill Leadership skill is very good for a cavalry general who needs to get into the middle of enemy troops and makes multiple kills. This is why I think Lan is the best cavalry general. Though the skill has the same effect on every unit type, I do not see why you would bring an infantry/artillery general in the middle of enemies. Most of the time, AI is not smart enough to flank you unless you place yourself to be flanked. So in my opinion, it is a great skill for cavalry but a so-so one for other type of units. I so not count the fact that it allows the general to move when you run out of food as a significant benefit of this skill since it is way too situational and when that happens, you should rather revise your resource management than rely on one general with leadership skill.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 16, 2015 14:08:25 GMT
Chinese skill anallysis 1. Banner: Able to equip flag, will give extra point to allied units around, but not to general himself. 2. Geography: Like war horse, the movement will not affected by terrain, infantry units originally have geograhy. 3. Fireproof: Like pumper, the hex that general stays will not be on fire, if general gets into a hex on fire, the fire will be put out next turn. 4. Leadership: The morale will not drop due to surrounding/cavalry charge/food shortage, but if this happens when the morale is increasing, it will drop to normal. 5. Accurate/Strike/Bugle: General deprives the evasion from terrain/city/defense built by infantry when on artillery/cavalry/infantry. 6. Explosive/Surprise/Formation: The maximum attack +1 when on artillery/cavalry/infantry, by general, if it is single line army, it will +5, double lines +6, triple +7, it contributes to the average about half of the maximum damage.. 7. Ballistics/Mobility/Infantry Tactic: The minimum attack when on artillery/cavalry/infantry, but a star of general gives 5 more demage, and this skill only works on troop unit itself, so if the general has star, this skill won't work. 8. Mass Fire: Like drum, deprives the affect by dropping health. 9. Nobleman: Increase the experiecne of the rank of nobility. 10. War Expert: Increase the experience of military rank. 11. War Master: Increase the experience of military rank by 1.8. 12. Spy: Deals 50% extra damage to fortress units. 13. Steersman: When on navy unit, the damage received -10%. 14. Navigation: Movement of navy +1. 15. Sailor: Like armored carrier, deprives the evation of 20% when army unit marches into ocean. 16. Logistics: Unit commands does not need supply. 17. Econimic Expert/Master: Gets 40%/80% more resource in the city/field general stays every turn. 18. Trench/Fence/Bunker/Carrier: Money requires to build trench/fence/bunker/carrier -50%. 19. Siege Master: When attacking unit in city, deprive evation from city. 20. Architecture: Resource required for the city/field general stays -40%. 21. Assault Tactic: 20% to make a maximum damage in turn. 22. Defense tactic: 10% to decrease the damage to 1 out of turns. 23. Infantry/Cavalry/Artillery/Navy/Fortress/Business/Marching Training: Add 1 star to the general regroups him, 5 star maximum. kanue, any comments?
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Chinese Player
First Lieutenant
Invited by Manstein, but even Manstein himself doesn't know who's using it.
Posts: 30
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 16, 2015 14:21:46 GMT
Here're my opinions Berthier vs Golytisin Costs to upgrade Berthier is, yes, insane. In normal circumstance, I would not spend that for a geography skill. But if you play this game a lot, you will reach a point where you have all the items you need and other generals are fully upgraded so you will have no use for medals (thanks for the grinding method). At this point, I do not mind upgrading Berthier because he has better potential than Golytsin (warhorse grants him geography but also takes up one item slot) and I have spared medals. In fact, I am now searching for Agha to train him. So, who is better? It's up to player's preference and constraint. If you are progressing the campaigns, you probably have limited medals so Golytsin can be a better choice. But if you want a good end game cavalry general (excludes emblem generals and princess), go for Berthier. Surprise vs Mobility (and other varieties) Surprise increases max dmg and Mobility adds min dmg. Statistically, they give the same expected (average) output so I do not think the claim that "Mobility is useless" is a valid fact, it is an opinion. The difference is the standard deviation (range) of damage; Surprise -> wider (high SD) and mobility -> narrower (low SD). As for my preference, I like a narrower range (low SD) of damage because I can predict my output more accurately and know whether I can make a kill. This is crucial for a cavalry general since you probably do not want a bad luck that a low damage would come out and make you miss the kill. A max rolled damage can be a waste due to an overkill but improved min damage is always useful. This is also a reason why I prefer Suvorov (with combat skills) to Victoria (with assault art). Anyway, a wider damage range means more uncertainty and it's uncertainty that makes a weaker general defeat a stronger one. So, in my opinion, Mobility skill (and their variations) is far from useless. It ultimately depends on player's preference. Savary vs Ney vs Sulkowski "Savary is better than Ney if they are not attacking someone in a city" is probably based on an assumption that Mobility is useless which, as I previously argue, is not necessary true. Fireproof is not very useful for cavalry since you can always move away and the fire damage is laughable (I normally consider it as a special effect to make the battle look...cool). Siege Master is situational but, as a cavalry general, it is quite common that you attack a unit in town then capture the town so this "situaltional" is more probable for cavalry than others. Sulkowski is pretty decent. Too bad, I previously did not notice him. Accurate, Bugle, Strike Accurate, Bugle, and Strike are great skills as I statistically proved that in other thread. I normally consider them the most important skills for each unit type. Leadership Skill Leadership skill is very good for a cavalry general who needs to get into the middle of enemy troops and makes multiple kills. This is why I think Lan is the best cavalry general. Though the skill has the same effect on every unit type, I do not see why you would bring an infantry/artillery general in the middle of enemies. Most of the time, AI is not smart enough to flank you unless you place yourself to be flanked. So in my opinion, it is a great skill for cavalry but a so-so one for other type of units. I so not count the fact that it allows the general to move when you run out of food as a significant benefit of this skill since it is way too situational and when that happens, you should rather revise your resource management than rely of one general with leadership skill. Hello,I'm a Chinese. I asked Eternal to translate my article about the use of every skill. But it seem that he is busy now. So I will try my best to translate some of them by myself. My English is not very good. I hope you can understand what I said. I agree your comment about Berthier and Golytisin. But about Mobility, I had to say you are wrong. As you know, every army has the minatk and maxatk. For example, the minatk of fra's Light Infantry is 4, and the maxatk is 6. It means, if the grade is 0, the min dmg is 4, and the max dmg is 6*5=30.The only use of minatk is the min dmg will not be lower than it. If you test the average of dmg, you will find the average is near to 15, half of 30. So the minatk is useless, and increasing the minatk is also useless.
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