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Post by andrei on Nov 16, 2015 16:30:19 GMT
I agree your comment about Berthier and Golytisin. But about Mobility, I had to say you are wrong. As you know, every army has the minatk and maxatk. For example, the minatk of fra's Light Infantry is 4, and the maxatk is 6. It means, if the grade is 0, the min dmg is 4, and the max dmg is 6*5=30.The only use of minatk is the min dmg will not be lower than it. If you test the average of dmg, you will find the average is near to 15, half of 30. So the minatk is useless, and increasing the minatk is also useless. Actually I didn't understand Your idea... In case I assign Lannes to Light infantry - the attack of the unit (bacis light infantry attack is 4-6) is not affected. And in case I assign Suvorov to light infantry basic attack of the unit will be affected - raised up to 5-7 points. Due to Suvorov skills. You can easily check it. Consequently all the calculations of the damage will be according to this basic figures. That's the difference. As I understand You are calculating the damage according to the basic attack of the unit, but please, take into account that general's skill changes it!
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Chinese Player
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Invited by Manstein, but even Manstein himself doesn't know who's using it.
Posts: 30
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 16, 2015 18:48:32 GMT
I agree your comment about Berthier and Golytisin. But about Mobility, I had to say you are wrong. As you know, every army has the minatk and maxatk. For example, the minatk of fra's Light Infantry is 4, and the maxatk is 6. It means, if the grade is 0, the min dmg is 4, and the max dmg is 6*5=30.The only use of minatk is the min dmg will not be lower than it. If you test the average of dmg, you will find the average is near to 15, half of 30. So the minatk is useless, and increasing the minatk is also useless. Actually I didn't understand Your idea... In case I assign Lannes to Light infantry - the attack of the unit (bacis light infantry attack is 4-6) is not affected. And in case I assign Suvorov to light infantry basic attack of the unit will be affected - raised up to 5-7 points. Due to Suvorov skills. You can easily check it. Consequently all the calculations of the damage will be according to this basic figures. That's the difference. As I understand You are calculating the damage according to the basic attack of the unit, but please, take into account that general's skill changes it!It's the next I need to say. I will tell you how to count the dmg. But it's really hard for me. So many words I don't know how to say. I hope google translate can help me. First, you need to know the dmg depend on the maxatk. For example, during Suvorov to light infantry of fra(5-7,single line), and Victoria to line infantry of fra(1-7,single line,infantry 5 stars), the max dmg and the average dmg are all the same. The max dmg is 7*5+5*5=60, the average is 60/2=30. Increasing the maxatk will increase the dmg. Increasing the minatk will only increase 1 to the min dmg. I called the dmg from army "board dmg", and dmg from general "general dmg". The total dmg is "board dmg"+"general dmg".The max dmg of light infantry is 30, it belong to "board dmg". Infantry 5 stars, take Ferguson Rifle, this belong to "general dmg". I will explain how to count the "board dmg" and the total dmg. If the minatk is "a",the maxatk is "b", the max dmg is c*b, c=5(single line),6(double),7(triple). The computer will randomly select 2 number between 1 and b*c, add these 2 numbers,then divided by 2,now get the theoretical dmg(rounddown). Then add the theoretical dmg to "general dmg",if the total is less than "a",the total dmg is "a".If the total is more than "a", the total dmg is the theoretical dmg add "general dmg". Because every star cost 5 dmg, so if the general has more than 1 star, usually the total will be more than "a". Then you can see, the minatk is useless to most of generals. The more the maxatk, the more the dmg. I need to go to sleep. I will explain the rest in next a few days.
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Post by andrei on Nov 16, 2015 19:24:38 GMT
It's the next I need to say. I will tell you how to count the dmg. But it's really hard for me. So many words I don't know how to say. I hope google translate can help me. First, you need to know the dmg depend on the maxatk. For example, during Suvorov to light infantry of fra(5-7,single line), and Victoria to line infantry of fra(1-7,single line,infantry 5 stars), the max dmg and the average dmg are all the same. The max dmg is 7*5+5*5=60, the average is 60/2=30. Increasing the maxatk will increase the dmg. Increasing the minatk will only increase 1 to the min dmg. I called the dmg from army "board dmg", and dmg from general "general dmg". The total dmg is "board dmg"+"general dmg".The max dmg of light infantry is 30, it belong to "board dmg". Infantry 5 stars, take Ferguson Rifle, this belong to "general dmg". I will explain how to count the "board dmg" and the total dmg. If the minatk is "a",the maxatk is "b", the max dmg is c*b, c=5(single line),6(double),7(triple). The computer will randomly select 2 number between 1 and b*c, add these 2 numbers,then divided by 2,now get the theoretical dmg(rounddown). Then add the theoretical dmg to "general dmg",if the total is less than "a",the total dmg is "a".If the total is more than "a", the total dmg is the theoretical dmg add "general dmg". Because every star cost 5 dmg, so if the general has more than 1 star, usually the total will be more than "a". Then you can see, the minatk is useless to most of generals. The more the maxatk, the more the dmg. I need to go to sleep. I will explain the rest in next a few days. Where did You get this formula? Are You sure that minatk is not included into the formula of theoretical damage calculation? But even in case minatk is not included into this formula directly, it is anyway affects the theoretical damage. Skill Infantry tactics raises "C" from 4-6 to 5-7 as I mentioned earlier. That means that for Lannes or Victoria c=4/5/6 while for Suvorov c=5/6/7. So minatk influences the theoretical damage anyway - at least indirectly. And as soon as theoretical damage is a part of the total damage, skill can not be useless as it contributes to the damage that You call theoretical.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 16, 2015 20:07:23 GMT
It's the next I need to say. I will tell you how to count the dmg. But it's really hard for me. So many words I don't know how to say. I hope google translate can help me. First, you need to know the dmg depend on the maxatk. For example, during Suvorov to light infantry of fra(5-7,single line), and Victoria to line infantry of fra(1-7,single line,infantry 5 stars), the max dmg and the average dmg are all the same. The max dmg is 7*5+5*5=60, the average is 60/2=30. Increasing the maxatk will increase the dmg. Increasing the minatk will only increase 1 to the min dmg. I called the dmg from army "board dmg", and dmg from general "general dmg". The total dmg is "board dmg"+"general dmg".The max dmg of light infantry is 30, it belong to "board dmg". Infantry 5 stars, take Ferguson Rifle, this belong to "general dmg". I will explain how to count the "board dmg" and the total dmg. If the minatk is "a",the maxatk is "b", the max dmg is c*b, c=5(single line),6(double),7(triple). The computer will randomly select 2 number between 1 and b*c, add these 2 numbers,then divided by 2,now get the theoretical dmg(rounddown). Then add the theoretical dmg to "general dmg",if the total is less than "a",the total dmg is "a".If the total is more than "a", the total dmg is the theoretical dmg add "general dmg". Because every star cost 5 dmg, so if the general has more than 1 star, usually the total will be more than "a". Then you can see, the minatk is useless to most of generals. The more the maxatk, the more the dmg. I need to go to sleep. I will explain the rest in next a few days. Where did You get this formula? Are You sure that minatk is not included into the formula of theoretical damage calculation? There are always some players with good skill in the forum, that is what they ususlly do, all kinds of testing and game strategies!
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Post by bottlesofbeer on Nov 16, 2015 21:34:38 GMT
Quoted Chinese Player: Thanks for this,I didn't know the attack increased with the formation because it doesn't show on the unit card,then formation affect both health and damage. The damage calculation has always been a mystery to me so this helps a lot too,but could you show us the raw numbers or how you got to that understanding? Was the formula from Easytech developer or did you use software like excel or was it directly seen in game files? No worry about boring,if you can't tell already we love math and statistics in here just the same as where you are
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Post by saltin on Nov 17, 2015 1:16:34 GMT
Erich von Manstein we have players with good skills in here as well.The only difference in this community is that we have maybe 40-50 members playing European war 4 while you have 15,000 members or more playing EU4 on your board.Our forum is fairly new but we are growing! So yeah,chances are the base knowledge is higher on the other side and it should be. Understand,I don't think people are challenging you or your friends, or refusing to acknowledge your information just to be rigid or selfish. On the contrary most of us love new information and new ways of thinking even if it proves we have not been entirely accurate in the past. we just want to see the raw data whenever possible.If it's not available or lost then fine you can say so,it's not a big deal,but if it is available we would love to see it. Chinese Player I don't know if this is just one player or several but thanks for sharing and looking forward to hearing more.Your English is perfectly understandable and mathematics is a universal language
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Chinese Player
First Lieutenant
Invited by Manstein, but even Manstein himself doesn't know who's using it.
Posts: 30
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 17, 2015 1:24:58 GMT
It's the next I need to say. I will tell you how to count the dmg. But it's really hard for me. So many words I don't know how to say. I hope google translate can help me. First, you need to know the dmg depend on the maxatk. For example, during Suvorov to light infantry of fra(5-7,single line), and Victoria to line infantry of fra(1-7,single line,infantry 5 stars), the max dmg and the average dmg are all the same. The max dmg is 7*5+5*5=60, the average is 60/2=30. Increasing the maxatk will increase the dmg. Increasing the minatk will only increase 1 to the min dmg. I called the dmg from army "board dmg", and dmg from general "general dmg". The total dmg is "board dmg"+"general dmg".The max dmg of light infantry is 30, it belong to "board dmg". Infantry 5 stars, take Ferguson Rifle, this belong to "general dmg". I will explain how to count the "board dmg" and the total dmg. If the minatk is "a",the maxatk is "b", the max dmg is c*b, c=5(single line),6(double),7(triple). The computer will randomly select 2 number between 1 and b*c, add these 2 numbers,then divided by 2,now get the theoretical dmg(rounddown). Then add the theoretical dmg to "general dmg",if the total is less than "a",the total dmg is "a".If the total is more than "a", the total dmg is the theoretical dmg add "general dmg". Because every star cost 5 dmg, so if the general has more than 1 star, usually the total will be more than "a". Then you can see, the minatk is useless to most of generals. The more the maxatk, the more the dmg. I need to go to sleep. I will explain the rest in next a few days. Where did You get this formula? Are You sure that minatk is not included into the formula of theoretical damage calculation? But even in case minatk is not included into this formula directly, it is anyway affects the theoretical damage. Skill Infantry tactics raises "C" from 4-6 to 5-7 as I mentioned earlier. That means that for Lannes or Victoria c=4/5/6 while for Suvorov c=5/6/7. So minatk influences the theoretical damage anyway - at least indirectly. And as soon as theoretical damage is a part of the total damage, skill can not be useless as it contributes to the damage that You call theoretical. No.Explosive/Surprise/Formation raise 1 to "b",not raise 1 to "c"."c" only depend on the line, single line is 5,double is 6,triple is 7.
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Chinese Player
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Invited by Manstein, but even Manstein himself doesn't know who's using it.
Posts: 30
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 17, 2015 2:16:20 GMT
Quoted Chinese Player: Thanks for this,I didn't know the attack increased with the formation because it doesn't show on the unit card,then formation affect both health and damage. The damage calculation has always been a mystery to me so this helps a lot too,but could you show us the raw numbers or how you got to that understanding? Was the formula from Easytech developer or did you use software like excel or was it directly seen in game files? No worry about boring,if you can't tell already we love math and statistics in here just the same as where you are I don't know how to share my test to you. If you have email, I can send to you.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 17, 2015 2:21:40 GMT
Quoted Chinese Player: Thanks for this,I didn't know the attack increased with the formation because it doesn't show on the unit card,then formation affect both health and damage. The damage calculation has always been a mystery to me so this helps a lot too,but could you show us the raw numbers or how you got to that understanding? Was the formula from Easytech developer or did you use software like excel or was it directly seen in game files? No worry about boring,if you can't tell already we love math and statistics in here just the same as where you are I don't know how to share my test to you. If you have email, I can send to you. You can press the "Add Attachment" at the top right to attach your file.
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Chinese Player
First Lieutenant
Invited by Manstein, but even Manstein himself doesn't know who's using it.
Posts: 30
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 17, 2015 2:25:04 GMT
Erich von Manstein we have players with good skills in here as well.The only difference in this community is that we have maybe 40-50 members playing European war 4 while you have 15,000 members or more playing EU4 on your board.Our forum is fairly new but we are growing! So yeah,chances are the base knowledge is higher on the other side and it should be. Understand,I don't think people are challenging you or your friends, or refusing to acknowledge your information just to be rigid or selfish. On the contrary most of us love new information and new ways of thinking even if it proves we have not been entirely accurate in the past. we just want to see the raw data whenever possible.If it's not available or lost then fine you can say so,it's not a big deal,but if it is available we would love to see it. Chinese Player I don't know if this is just one player or several but thanks for sharing and looking forward to hearing more.Your English is perfectly understandable and mathematics is a universal language Single line 1-2(Suvorov) 1-2 2-3(Suvorov) 2-3 3-4(Suvorov) 10-11(Suvorov) 10-11 10-11(Moreau,infantry 5 stars) 26 1 1 1 27 2 27 1 29 10 33 27 2 27 2 28 1 29 10 36 27 2 27 3 2 3 29 33 10 37 27 3 2 3 28 4 29 2 34 10 38 28 3 28 4 30 34 10 38 28 3 28 4 30 36 10 39 28 3 28 4 30 37 10 39 28 3 28 4 30 4 37 11 39 28 3 28 6 4 31 37 11 40 28 3 29 4 31 37 12 41 28 3 29 4 31 38 14 41 28 3 29 4 31 38 14 41 28 3 29 4 10 31 38 15 42 28 10 3 10 29 5 31 6 39 15 43 29 4 29 5 32 39 15 43 29 4 29 5 32 39 15 43 29 4 29 5 32 41 15 44 29 4 29 9 5 32 41 15 44 29 4 30 5 32 41 17 44 29 4 30 5 32 41 17 45 29 4 30 5 32 42 17 46 29 4 30 5 32 42 18 46 29 4 30 5 10 32 9 43 18 46 29 4 30 6 33 43 18 46 29 4 30 6 33 43 18 46 29 4 30 6 33 43 19 46 29 4 30 9 6 33 43 19 47 29 4 31 6 33 43 19 47 29 4 31 6 33 43 19 47 29 16 4 16 31 6 33 44 20 48 30 5 31 6 33 44 20 49 30 5 31 6 33 9 44 20 49 30 5 31 6 34 44 20 49 30 5 31 6 34 44 20 49 30 5 31 6 12 34 45 21 49 30 5 31 7 34 45 21 49 30 5 31 7 34 45 21 50 30 5 31 7 34 45 21 50 30 5 31 7 34 45 21 50 30 5 31 7 34 45 22 50 30 5 31 7 34 46 22 50 30 5 31 15 7 34 46 22 50 30 5 32 7 34 46 22 51 30 5 32 7 34 46 22 51 30 5 32 7 34 47 22 51 30 5 32 7 34 47 22 51 30 5 32 7 34 15 47 22 52 30 5 32 7 35 47 22 52 30 5 32 7 35 47 22 52 30 20 5 20 32 7 35 47 22 52 31 6 32 7 35 47 23 52 31 6 32 7 35 47 23 52 31 6 32 7 35 47 23 53 31 6 32 7 35 47 23 53 31 6 32 7 35 47 23 53 31 6 32 14 7 35 47 23 53 31 6 33 7 22 35 47 24 53 31 6 33 8 35 47 24 54 31 6 33 8 35 47 24 54 31 6 33 8 35 47 24 54 31 6 33 8 35 14 47 24 54 31 6 33 8 36 48 24 54 31 6 33 8 36 48 24 55 31 6 33 8 36 48 24 55 31 6 33 8 36 49 24 56 31 6 33 8 36 49 24 56 31 6 33 8 36 49 24 57 31 6 33 8 11 36 49 24 57 31 6 33 9 36 49 25 57 31 6 33 9 36 9 49 25 57 31 21 6 33 9 37 49 25 58 32 6 22 33 9 37 50 25 58 32 7 33 9 37 50 25 58 32 7 33 18 9 37 50 25 58 32 7 34 9 37 50 25 58 32 7 34 9 37 50 25 59 32 7 34 9 37 50 25 59 32 7 34 9 37 50 25 59 32 7 34 9 37 50 25 60 32 7 34 9 12 37 10 50 25 60 32 7 34 7 10 38 50 25 60 32 7 35 10 38 51 26 61 32 7 35 10 38 51 26 62 32 7 35 10 38 51 26 62 32 14 7 35 10 38 51 26 62 33 7 35 10 38 6 51 26 62 33 7 15 35 6 10 7 39 51 26 62 33 8 36 11 39 51 26 62 33 8 36 11 39 51 26 63 33 8 36 11 39 52 26 63 33 8 36 11 39 5 52 26 63 33 8 36 11 40 52 26 64 33 8 36 11 40 52 27 64 33 8 36 11 40 3 52 27 64 33 8 36 8 11 41 53 27 64 33 11 8 9 37 11 9 41 53 27 65 34 9 37 12 41 53 27 66 34 9 37 3 12 41 4 54 28 66 34 9 3 38 1 12 42 54 28 67 34 4 10 1 40 1 12 4 42 2 54 28 68 3049 100 547 100 3212 100 735 100 3489 100 54 28 5227 average 5.49 5.47 7.12 7.35 9.89 54 28 27.27 board 54 28 dmg 54 28 55 28 55 29 55 29 55 29 56 29 56 29 56 29 56 29 56 29 56 29 56 29 56 29 56 29 56 29 56 29 56 30 56 30 56 30 56 30 56 30 56 30 57 30 57 30 57 30 58 30 58 30 58 30 58 30 58 31 58 31 59 31 59 31 59 31 59 31 59 32 59 32 59 32 59 32 60 32 60 32 60 32 60 32 60 32 60 32 60 33 60 33 60 33 60 33 61 33 61 33 61 33 61 33 61 33 61 33 62 34 62 34 62 34 62 34 62 35 62 35 62 35 62 35 63 35 63 35 63 35 63 36 63 36 63 37 63 37 63 37 63 37 63 37 63 37 63 38 64 38 64 38 64 38 64 38 64 38 64 39 64 39 65 39 65 40 65 40 65 40 66 40 66 40 66 42 66 42 66 43 67 43 67 44 67 44 67 45 69 45 69 45 10613 5509 28.065 27.545
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Chinese Player
First Lieutenant
Invited by Manstein, but even Manstein himself doesn't know who's using it.
Posts: 30
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 17, 2015 2:32:53 GMT
I don't know how to share my test to you. If you have email, I can send to you. You can press the "Add Attachment" at the top right to attach your file. I had tried, but nothing happened -_-|||
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Chinese Player
First Lieutenant
Invited by Manstein, but even Manstein himself doesn't know who's using it.
Posts: 30
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 17, 2015 2:36:23 GMT
Erich von Manstein we have players with good skills in here as well.The only difference in this community is that we have maybe 40-50 members playing European war 4 while you have 15,000 members or more playing EU4 on your board.Our forum is fairly new but we are growing! So yeah,chances are the base knowledge is higher on the other side and it should be. Understand,I don't think people are challenging you or your friends, or refusing to acknowledge your information just to be rigid or selfish. On the contrary most of us love new information and new ways of thinking even if it proves we have not been entirely accurate in the past. we just want to see the raw data whenever possible.If it's not available or lost then fine you can say so,it's not a big deal,but if it is available we would love to see it. Chinese Player I don't know if this is just one player or several but thanks for sharing and looking forward to hearing more.Your English is perfectly understandable and mathematics is a universal language Can you tell me your email? I can send my test to you.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 17, 2015 2:43:51 GMT
You can press the "Add Attachment" at the top right to attach your file. I had tried, but nothing happened -_-||| Could you send it to me? I'll try to post it.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 17, 2015 3:02:48 GMT
Here is the file. The result is from changing the maximum and minimum damage of the army unit, so it shows the results more effective. The testing unit is militia, attacking heavy artillery with no level. The map is tested that it does not have hidden evasion. So the results could show the "board output" correctly. Attachments:dmg.xlsx (23.69 KB)
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Chinese Player
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 17, 2015 4:31:27 GMT
Arms coefficient: infantry: Militia/Line Infantry/Light Infantry:VS infantry dmg*1.00,VS cavalry 1.00,VS artillery 1.00,VS fort 0.80,VS warship 0.90 Grenadier/Guards:VS infantry 1.00,VS cavalry 1.00,VS artillery 1.00,VS fort 1.20,VS warship 1.25 Machine Gun:VS infantry 1.30,VS cavalry 1.45,VS artillery 1.00,VS fort 0.80,VS warship 0.90
cavalry : Light Cavalry:VS infantry 1.00,VS cavalry 1.00,VS artillery 1.00,VS fort 0.80,VS warship 0.90 Heavy Cavalry:VS infantry 1.00,VS cavalry 1.00,VS artillery 1.00,VS fort 0.80,VS warship 0.90 Guards Cavalry:VS infantry 1.00,VS cavalry 1.00,VS artillery 1.00,VS fort 1.20,VS warship 1.25 Armored Car:VS infantry 1.30,VS cavalry 1.45,VS artillery 1.00,VS fort 0.80,VS warship 0.90
artillery: Light Artillery:VS infantry 0.95,VS cavalry 0.85,VS artillery 0.95,VS fort 1.20,VS warship 1.25 Heavy Artillery:VS infantry 0.95,VS cavalry 0.85,VS artillery 0.95,VS fort 1.20,VS warship 1.25 Siege Artillery:VS infantry 0.95,VS cavalry 0.85,VS artillery 0.95,VS fort 2.16,VS warship 1.25. If the army that be attacked by the Siege Artillery is in the city, the dmg should multiply 1.40. Rocket:VS infantry 1.10,VS cavalry 1.20,VS artillery 1.00,VS fort 1.50,VS warship 1.50
fort:Coastal Fort VS warship 2.50,the others is the same as Light Artillery/Heavy Artillery
warship:the same as Light Artillery/Heavy Artillery
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