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Post by kanue on Nov 17, 2015 5:43:58 GMT
It's the next I need to say. I will tell you how to count the dmg. But it's really hard for me. So many words I don't know how to say. I hope google translate can help me. First, you need to know the dmg depend on the maxatk. For example, during Suvorov to light infantry of fra(5-7,single line), and Victoria to line infantry of fra(1-7,single line,infantry 5 stars), the max dmg and the average dmg are all the same. The max dmg is 7*5+5*5=60, the average is 60/2=30. Increasing the maxatk will increase the dmg. Increasing the minatk will only increase 1 to the min dmg. I called the dmg from army "board dmg", and dmg from general "general dmg". The total dmg is "board dmg"+"general dmg".The max dmg of light infantry is 30, it belong to "board dmg". Infantry 5 stars, take Ferguson Rifle, this belong to "general dmg". I will explain how to count the "board dmg" and the total dmg. If the minatk is "a",the maxatk is "b", the max dmg is c*b, c=5(single line),6(double),7(triple). The computer will randomly select 2 number between 1 and b*c, add these 2 numbers,then divided by 2,now get the theoretical dmg(rounddown). Then add the theoretical dmg to "general dmg",if the total is less than "a",the total dmg is "a".If the total is more than "a", the total dmg is the theoretical dmg add "general dmg". Because every star cost 5 dmg, so if the general has more than 1 star, usually the total will be more than "a". Then you can see, the minatk is useless to most of generals. The more the maxatk, the more the dmg. I need to go to sleep. I will explain the rest in next a few days. Thanks, Chinese Player. This is very enlightening.  |
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Post by andrei on Nov 17, 2015 6:41:24 GMT
Where did You get this formula? Are You sure that minatk is not included into the formula of theoretical damage calculation? But even in case minatk is not included into this formula directly, it is anyway affects the theoretical damage. Skill Infantry tactics raises "C" from 4-6 to 5-7 as I mentioned earlier. That means that for Lannes or Victoria c=4/5/6 while for Suvorov c=5/6/7. So minatk influences the theoretical damage anyway - at least indirectly. And as soon as theoretical damage is a part of the total damage, skill can not be useless as it contributes to the damage that You call theoretical. No.Explosive/Surprise/Formation raise 1 to "b",not raise 1 to "c"."c" only depend on the line, single line is 5,double is 6,triple is 7. Ok, I see. I mixed up b and c. Many thanks for the information. Anyway it is a little bit strange from the developers side In case minatk means nothing when general is assigned then it is always better to use machine gun instead of guards for example, even though machine gun has ridiculous minatk. So the idea of using different units due to different fighting characteritics is devaluated. You upset me |
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Chinese Player
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 17, 2015 6:56:01 GMT
No.Explosive/Surprise/Formation raise 1 to "b",not raise 1 to "c"."c" only depend on the line, single line is 5,double is 6,triple is 7. Ok, I see. I mixed up b and c. Many thanks for the information. Anyway it is a little bit strange from the developers side In case minatk means nothing when general is assigned then it is always better to use machine gun instead of guards for example, even though machine gun has ridiculous minatk. So the idea of using different units due to different fighting characteritics is devaluated. You upset me Machine gun is the killer to infantry(dmg*1.3) and cavalry(*1.45). But guards can attack warship(*1.25) and fort(*1.2). |
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Post by saltin on Nov 17, 2015 6:58:27 GMT
Wow lots of info pouring in now ! 1/Rereading the skill description,it looks like I am going to update one of the older skill guides,some of the numbers need adding/changing and a couple descriptions changed. Edit: Skill guide updated,can be found Here everyone is welcome to comment in that thread too.Also I can give credit to whoever helpeld updating this I just need names. 2/Added the file pic of the xlsx file that was sent to Eternal Aurora, in case posters need to see and can't open that file format. 3/Reguarding the +1 add to minimum damage skills as useless (and if I am understanding this correctly) the key concept that our visiting friends are trying to make here is that:
The maximum damage is subject to multipliers while the minimum damage is not.
The example mentioned was a regular unit single formation referanced rated at 4-6, its true basic damage would be 5X times that but it does not go to 20-30 as you would expect, the min damage still stays at 4 and the true basic damage is apparently 4-30 why 5X,because 5 is the multiplier for solo formation. If it was a double formation it would be 4-36 because the multiplier is 6 . If it was a triple formation than the basic damage would be 4-42increasing min damage would yield: Basic:4-6 Single multiplier effect on: A/Increasing minimum damage by 1: 4-6 becomes 5-6 base. Damage is: 5-30 5-36 5-42 B/Increasing max damage by 1: 4-6 becomes 4-7 base. Damage is: 4-35 4-42 4-49 On more extreme examples like artillery with high maximum damage the effect is greater.Other multipliers (if applicable) could also increase the gap. So increasing the basic max damage by 1 point has a big impact with multipliers but increasing min damage by one point is not significant because it does not get multiplied. We see in game just by casual observations something that adds credance to this,how many times have you had units deal a ridiculously low damage? For me it happened a lot,so this theory of multiplier not affecting minimum damage sounds right. I am still scratching my head on all these numbers posted since but we'll make some sense out of them soon  4/Also mentioned is that the average output related to half the max damage on average and is near independant from the min value. 5/It looks like we are getting the total package the coefficient table unit bonus got posted.The damage formula has a lot of variables,should be some terrain and morale effect too. 6/I got to say all these new posts about the EU4 game mechanics are generating new insight/excitement into the game  [/b][/b] |
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Post by kanue on Nov 17, 2015 11:27:56 GMT
"c" only depend on the line, single line is 5,double is 6,triple is 7 Does this apply to all type of unit? |
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Chinese Player
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Posts: 30
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 17, 2015 12:29:04 GMT
"c" only depend on the line, single line is 5,double is 6,triple is 7 Does this apply to all type of unit? Yes. |
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Chinese Player
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 17, 2015 14:50:57 GMT
Continue.
Now I will talk about Assault Tactic.
When Assault Tactic appear,the board dmg will be the max. For example, Victoria(infantry 5 stars) on the line single light infantry(4-6), attack level 0 militia,the dmg by assault tactic is:6*5(the max of board dmg)+5*5(every star increase 5 dmg)=55.This data isn't floating. So we can use the assault tactic to test the effect of morale or others.
Anyway, this skill is very useful.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 17, 2015 15:10:52 GMT
Arms coefficient： infantry： Militia/Line Infantry/Light Infantry：VS infantry dmg*1.00，VS cavalry 1.00，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 0.80，VS warship 0.90 Grenadier/Guards：VS infantry 1.00，VS cavalry 1.00，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 1.20，VS warship 1.25 Machine Gun：VS infantry 1.30，VS cavalry 1.45，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 0.80，VS warship 0.90 cavalry ： Light Cavalry：VS infantry 1.00，VS cavalry 1.00，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 0.80，VS warship 0.90 Heavy Cavalry：VS infantry 1.00，VS cavalry 1.00，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 0.80，VS warship 0.90 Guards Cavalry：VS infantry 1.00，VS cavalry 1.00，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 1.20，VS warship 1.25 Armored Car：VS infantry 1.30，VS cavalry 1.45，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 0.80，VS warship 0.90 artillery： Light Artillery：VS infantry 0.95，VS cavalry 0.85，VS artillery 0.95，VS fort 1.20，VS warship 1.25 Heavy Artillery：VS infantry 0.95，VS cavalry 0.85，VS artillery 0.95，VS fort 1.20，VS warship 1.25 Siege Artillery：VS infantry 0.95，VS cavalry 0.85，VS artillery 0.95，VS fort 2.16，VS warship 1.25. If the army that be attacked by the Siege Artillery is in the city, the dmg should multiply 1.40. Rocket：VS infantry 1.10，VS cavalry 1.20，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 1.50，VS warship 1.50 fort：Coastal Fort VS warship 2.50，the others is the same as Light Cavalry/Heavy Cavalry warship：the same as Light Cavalry/Heavy Cavalry I guess that in fort and warship you mean artillery? |
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Chinese Player
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 17, 2015 15:28:52 GMT
Morale:
When your morale rise, your attack will raise 5(single line),6(double) or 7(triple), but your defence will not rise.
If the morale of the army that are attacked is down, the army's attack will decrease 5(single line),6(double) or 7(triple), and the defence will also decrease 5(single line),6(double) or 7(triple) when the HP is full.But with the HP reduct, the value of the defence force will rise.When 0-5% HP,the defence only decrease 1.
For example,Murat(artillery 5 stars) on the Russia's double line siege artillery(4-9) with 2 potent gunpowder and his morale rise, attack level 0 large fortress on the plain with the morale double down, Murat appear assault tactic, the dmg is:(6*9+5*5+2*6+6+2*5)*1.5*2.16=346.68=346(rounddown).6*9:the max of the board dmg;5*5:5 stars;2*6:2 potent gunpowder;6:Murat's morale rise;2*5:the large fortress's morale double down;1.5:spy;2.16:siege artillery vs fort.
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Chinese Player
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Posts: 30
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 17, 2015 15:32:27 GMT
Arms coefficient： infantry： Militia/Line Infantry/Light Infantry：VS infantry dmg*1.00，VS cavalry 1.00，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 0.80，VS warship 0.90 Grenadier/Guards：VS infantry 1.00，VS cavalry 1.00，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 1.20，VS warship 1.25 Machine Gun：VS infantry 1.30，VS cavalry 1.45，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 0.80，VS warship 0.90 cavalry ： Light Cavalry：VS infantry 1.00，VS cavalry 1.00，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 0.80，VS warship 0.90 Heavy Cavalry：VS infantry 1.00，VS cavalry 1.00，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 0.80，VS warship 0.90 Guards Cavalry：VS infantry 1.00，VS cavalry 1.00，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 1.20，VS warship 1.25 Armored Car：VS infantry 1.30，VS cavalry 1.45，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 0.80，VS warship 0.90 artillery： Light Artillery：VS infantry 0.95，VS cavalry 0.85，VS artillery 0.95，VS fort 1.20，VS warship 1.25 Heavy Artillery：VS infantry 0.95，VS cavalry 0.85，VS artillery 0.95，VS fort 1.20，VS warship 1.25 Siege Artillery：VS infantry 0.95，VS cavalry 0.85，VS artillery 0.95，VS fort 2.16，VS warship 1.25. If the army that be attacked by the Siege Artillery is in the city, the dmg should multiply 1.40. Rocket：VS infantry 1.10，VS cavalry 1.20，VS artillery 1.00，VS fort 1.50，VS warship 1.50 fort：Coastal Fort VS warship 2.50，the others is the same as Light Cavalry/Heavy Cavalry warship：the same as Light Cavalry/Heavy Cavalry I guess that in fort and warship you mean artillery? Yes, the same as light artillery/heavy artillery. I made a mistake. |
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Post by kanue on Nov 19, 2015 5:11:06 GMT
Come to think if it, since Mobility is useless then that makes Lasalle weaker than other cavalry generals like Dombrowski, Radetzky, or even Berthier, doesn't it? Well, I mean end game potential.
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Chinese Player
First Lieutenant
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Post by Chinese Player on Nov 19, 2015 13:03:54 GMT
Come to think if it, since Mobility is useless then that makes Lasalle weaker than other cavalry generals like Dombrowski, Radetzky, or even Berthier, doesn't it? Well, I mean end game potential. Lasalle isn't the strongest cavalry general, but he is still a good cavalry general. The most important is, he is the best choice to be the last general because of his cavalry 5 stars and matching 5 stars. |
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Post by Sebastianschweiger on Nov 20, 2015 18:12:06 GMT
@chinese player So who would you pick the best cavalry with spy if medal isn't a problem? Ney, sulkowski, savary?
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 20, 2015 18:22:38 GMT
@chinese player So who would you pick the best cavalry with spy if medal isn't a problem? Ney, sulkowski, savary? I will pick Sulkowsky. |
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Post by General William T. Sherman on Nov 20, 2015 19:44:56 GMT
@chinese player So who would you pick the best cavalry with spy if medal isn't a problem? Ney, sulkowski, savary? I will pick Sulkowsky. Is this only for cav generals with spy, or just any regular cav General? Because Murat is the best cav General imo. |
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