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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Aug 1, 2021 11:44:00 GMT
What of these battles do you think contributed most for the Allies victory.
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Post by Shrimant Peshwa Madhavrao Bhat on Aug 1, 2021 11:45:34 GMT
Battle for Britain
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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Aug 1, 2021 11:49:50 GMT
It's a hard choice for me but I think Moscow, because if Battle of Britain would have been lost I think there would have still been a chance, but if Moscow had fell it would've probably been over for the Red Army and thus the Allies. When Wilhelm Keitel was asked when did he know Operation Bagration had failed in the Nürnberg trials, he replied Moscow.
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Post by Shrimant Peshwa Madhavrao Bhat on Aug 1, 2021 11:53:58 GMT
It's a hard choice for me but I think Moscow, because if Battle of Britain would have been lost I think there would have still been a chance, but if Moscow had fell it would've probably been over for the Red Army and thus the Allies. When Wilhelm Keitel was asked when did he know Operation Bagration had failed in the Nürnberg trials, he replied Moscow. Moscow would be desicive only in case of destruction of entire Soviet Western Front , Bryansk front and reserve in Moscow which was highly unlikely.
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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Aug 1, 2021 12:05:43 GMT
It's a hard choice for me but I think Moscow, because if Battle of Britain would have been lost I think there would have still been a chance, but if Moscow had fell it would've probably been over for the Red Army and thus the Allies. When Wilhelm Keitel was asked when did he know Operation Bagration had failed in the Nürnberg trials, he replied Moscow. Moscow would be desicive only in case of destruction of entire Soviet Western Front , Bryansk front and reserve in Moscow which was highly unlikely. But so would have Battle of Britain been decisive only for the Axis only if Germany would have got air superiority. And then Moscow falling would have caused a big drop in morale for the Russians and an increase for the Germans. Also Moscow was a big highway and supply route junction. I was also thinking about battle of Stalingrad, since it would have cut the Volga, decreased Soviet morale, saved a quarter of German forces on the eastern front and let Germany continue the Caucasus campaign.
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Post by Shrimant Peshwa Madhavrao Bhat on Aug 1, 2021 12:15:37 GMT
Moscow would be desicive only in case of destruction of entire Soviet Western Front , Bryansk front and reserve in Moscow which was highly unlikely. But so would have Battle of Britain been decisive only for the Axis only if Germany would have got air superiority. And then Moscow falling would have caused a big drop in morale for the Russians and an increase for the Germans. Also Moscow was a big highway and supply route junction. I was also thinking about battle of Stalingrad, since it would have cut the Volga, decreased Soviet morale, saved a quarter of German forces on the eastern front and let Germany continue the Caucasus campaign. There was much higher chance of gaining air superiority in Britain than destroying Western front, Bryansk front and Reserves. They can retake Moscow.
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Post by 曹操 on Aug 1, 2021 12:19:06 GMT
Is battle of Caucasus "Operation Edelweiss"?
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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Aug 1, 2021 12:22:20 GMT
Is battle of Caucasus "Operation Edelweiss"? Yes.
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Post by 曹操 on Aug 1, 2021 12:39:51 GMT
Then i'll pick Battle of Caucasus since if the germans capture Caucasus then USSR will fall, then North Africa, then The Germans will invade Middle East, conquer India, then linked up with japanese and thus They will get more rich resources area and sweet sweet petrol.
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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Aug 1, 2021 12:57:59 GMT
Then i'll pick Battle of Caucasus since if the germans capture Caucasus then USSR will fall, then North Africa, then The Germans will invade Middle East, conquer India, then linked up with japanese and thus They will get more rich resources area and sweet sweet petrol. That is true but the loss at Stalingrad was why the Germans had to retreat from the Caucasus.
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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Aug 1, 2021 14:11:37 GMT
But so would have Battle of Britain been decisive only for the Axis only if Germany would have got air superiority. And then Moscow falling would have caused a big drop in morale for the Russians and an increase for the Germans. Also Moscow was a big highway and supply route junction. I was also thinking about battle of Stalingrad, since it would have cut the Volga, decreased Soviet morale, saved a quarter of German forces on the eastern front and let Germany continue the Caucasus campaign. There was much higher chance of gaining air superiority in Britain than destroying Western front, Bryansk front and Reserves. They can retake Moscow. If operation Typhoon would've succeeded and the forces defending Moscow would have been encircled the Soviets would've lost a lot of tanks and men, leaving a hole in the front, relieving Hoepners panzers back to Leningrad and Guderian's to Ukraine. I don't believe the Soviets could have taken Moscow back.
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Post by Shrimant Peshwa Madhavrao Bhat on Aug 1, 2021 14:13:22 GMT
There was much higher chance of gaining air superiority in Britain than destroying Western front, Bryansk front and Reserves. They can retake Moscow. If operation Typhoon would've succeeded and the forces defending Moscow would have been encircled the Soviets would've lost a lot of tanks and men, leaving a hole in the front, relieving Hoepners panzers back to Leningrad and Guderian's to Ukraine. I don't believe the Soviets could have taken Moscow back. Soviets had reserves, encircling those forces would be nearly impossible due to fuel issues.
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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Aug 1, 2021 14:18:39 GMT
If operation Typhoon would've succeeded and the forces defending Moscow would have been encircled the Soviets would've lost a lot of tanks and men, leaving a hole in the front, relieving Hoepners panzers back to Leningrad and Guderian's to Ukraine. I don't believe the Soviets could have taken Moscow back. Soviets had reserves, encircling those forces would be nearly impossible due to fuel issues. But it's about what battle was the most decisive not what the axis were closest to win.
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Post by Thortilla on Aug 2, 2021 1:18:37 GMT
It's a hard choice for me but I think Moscow, because if Battle of Britain would have been lost I think there would have still been a chance, but if Moscow had fell it would've probably been over for the Red Army and thus the Allies. When Wilhelm Keitel was asked when did he know Operation Bagration had failed in the Nürnberg trials, he replied Moscow. If Britain falls The Most Great Navy in the World will be under German Control. And The URRS will have all The Luffwaffe against them (in irl the luffwaffe get crushed in The Channel) The Germans Would not Waste Fuel in Africa. If USA enters the war en 1941 USA navy will be Fighting against Japan And Germany At the Same Time.
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Post by Shrimant Peshwa Madhavrao Bhat on Aug 2, 2021 2:30:21 GMT
Soviets had reserves, encircling those forces would be nearly impossible due to fuel issues. But it's about what battle was the most decisive not what the axis were closest to win. Victory in battle of Britain would at least open trade between Germany and Britain, easing its resource problems. It also means no lend lease to USSR and Japan probably would not attack USA if they could buy resources from Britain.
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