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Post by ambitiousace on Mar 27, 2020 5:38:05 GMT
We can agree on one thing though. Moreau and Lassalle are absolutely terrible generals, let alone iaps. Moreau has crap training stars, no leadership, and pretty terrible trading stars. Even scharnhorst is better for free. Lasalle is just a crappy golitsyn. With the same weaknesses as golitsyn. Just for 5$. There are piles on non iap generals superior like salurako. Lassalle is absolute garbage. Still,Leadership is universal.How did Lan and Nelson stand out?All the amazing generals like Lannes and Washington too has Leadership.Ofc its slightly outperform by mass fire but mass fire can be obtained thru snare drums.So I'd say both skills complete each other |
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Post by SolidLight on Mar 27, 2020 7:16:28 GMT
]Lan is such a death machine that she'll have high morale even without Leadership because she'll kill loads of people. I can see it being more valuable on infantry or artillery, more for not having your movement space limited when you hit -2 morale than for the damage decrease itself, though that's not a bad part of it either. I never really cared flanking enemies unless I see an opportunity to stun an enemy. In fact I'm more worried about the "being surrounded by enemies" part than the morale part. As being surrounded by enemies means potentially taking tons of damage because the AI seems to like to focus fire. How much does morale increase or decrease damage anyway? Lan has Leadership - this makes her the better cavallary, AssultArt is imo a ' Fun To Have' but practical useless because unreliable skill and surprise gives only +1 max Attack more. Leadership doesn't prevent morale from dropping - it prevents from morale becoming bad (even if foodshortage I think) and a also perfect skill for a city-defender (with massfire and economic master) - most hard to take out Flanking is very important in EW4- before you hit: - move one useless/weak unit so, that you lower the emys morale but don't attack with them - now your attack - you will hit so significant harder - and the counterattack is harmless (probably even more important. When used for flanking, a weak unit can cause much more (additional) damage without fighting. I never would attack with bad morale if it is not abslutely unavoidable or a dying enemy unit - the damage you deal feels like half and the counterattack will cause unnecessary high losses. I never had the situation to be confused for being flanked (confused because foodshortage can cause the fail of a mission ) to have this you need 3 pairs of enemies flanking you - you can't move anyway - but Leadership will be your livesaver in this case I assume I’m just saying that Leadership doesn’t do a lot for Lan. An issue I have with morale boosting skills or leadership is that they’re fairly redundant if you’re a death machine. You can gain morale just by killing stuff. And it’s easy to keep it high like that too. The same applies to Ace Forces in the WC series. Also. I’d like to know the actual numbers on what morale does before I can fully judge its worth. I’m guessing it’s not by a percentage but rather a flat damage reduction in this game since a serious general like Golitsyn still seems to hurt like hell but generics are seriously crippled or boosted. I’m not sure whether or not it affect defensive stats either (and defense is a mystery to me in this game). Erich von Manstein pls I’ll admit that it’s pretty good on Artillery/Infantry because they can’t kill loads of people quickly. But again, more for not being stunned than the damage reduction itself. |
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Post by 𝘛𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘴𝘬𝘺 on Mar 27, 2020 10:07:53 GMT
We can agree on one thing though. Moreau and Lassalle are absolutely terrible generals, let alone iaps. Moreau has crap training stars, no leadership, and pretty terrible trading stars. Even scharnhorst is better for free. Lasalle is just a crappy golitsyn. With the same weaknesses as golitsyn. Just for 5$. There are piles on non iap generals superior like salurako. Lassalle is absolute garbage. You are right - I hope that we also agree thst it is obvious that there this is the only one 'perfect' roaster  and generals in EW4 are nice for collecting - but they cost. There not for f2p. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Mar 27, 2020 12:58:44 GMT
We can agree on one thing though. Moreau and Lassalle are absolutely terrible generals, let alone iaps. Moreau has crap training stars, no leadership, and pretty terrible trading stars. Even scharnhorst is better for free. Lasalle is just a crappy golitsyn. With the same weaknesses as golitsyn. Just for 5$. There are piles on non iap generals superior like salurako. Lassalle is absolute garbage. You are right - I hope that we also agree thst it is obvious that there this is the only one 'perfect' roaster and generals in EW4 are nice for collecting - but they cost. There not for f2p. true. Victoria can do good if protect her from cavarly. She is way better than crappy suvorov. Still I would prefer lannes tho |
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Post by 𝘛𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘴𝘬𝘺 on Mar 27, 2020 13:47:48 GMT
true. Victoria can do good if protect her from cavarly. She is way better than crappy suvorov. Still I would prefer lannes tho IAP Lannes would be my also my first choice. I prefer Sakurako more than Victoria she is my favorite! |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Mar 27, 2020 13:57:00 GMT
IAP Lannes would be my also my first choice. I prefer Sakurako more than Victoria she is my favorite! Yes you can use her on anything and have her be amazing. |
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Post by ambitiousace on Mar 27, 2020 14:08:36 GMT
You are right - I hope that we also agree thst it is obvious that there this is the only one 'perfect' roaster and generals in EW4 are nice for collecting - but they cost. There not for f2p. true. Victoria can do good if protect her from cavarly. She is way better than crappy suvorov. Still I would prefer lannes tho With Lan around,I'm afraid no calvary can touch Victoria |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Mar 27, 2020 18:33:46 GMT
Lan has Leadership - this makes her the better cavallary, AssultArt is imo a ' Fun To Have' but practical useless because unreliable skill and surprise gives only +1 max Attack more. Leadership doesn't prevent morale from dropping - it prevents from morale becoming bad (even if foodshortage I think) and a also perfect skill for a city-defender (with massfire and economic master) - most hard to take out Flanking is very important in EW4- before you hit: - move one useless/weak unit so, that you lower the emys morale but don't attack with them - now your attack - you will hit so significant harder - and the counterattack is harmless (probably even more important. When used for flanking, a weak unit can cause much more (additional) damage without fighting. I never would attack with bad morale if it is not abslutely unavoidable or a dying enemy unit - the damage you deal feels like half and the counterattack will cause unnecessary high losses. I never had the situation to be confused for being flanked (confused because foodshortage can cause the fail of a mission ) to have this you need 3 pairs of enemies flanking you - you can't move anyway - but Leadership will be your livesaver in this case I assume I’m just saying that Leadership doesn’t do a lot for Lan. An issue I have with morale boosting skills or leadership is that they’re fairly redundant if you’re a death machine. You can gain morale just by killing stuff. And it’s easy to keep it high like that too. The same applies to Ace Forces in the WC series. Also. I’d like to know the actual numbers on what morale does before I can fully judge its worth. I’m guessing it’s not by a percentage but rather a flat damage reduction in this game since a serious general like Golitsyn still seems to hurt like hell but generics are seriously crippled or boosted. I’m not sure whether or not it affect defensive stats either (and defense is a mystery to me in this game). Erich von Manstein pls I’ll admit that it’s pretty good on Artillery/Infantry because they can’t kill loads of people quickly. But again, more for not being stunned than the damage reduction itself. Please forgive me for not explaining it here because it's a bit complicated. There's a thread about damage formula around that should be relatively easy to find. |
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Post by SolidLight on Mar 27, 2020 20:39:45 GMT
I’m just saying that Leadership doesn’t do a lot for Lan. An issue I have with morale boosting skills or leadership is that they’re fairly redundant if you’re a death machine. You can gain morale just by killing stuff. And it’s easy to keep it high like that too. The same applies to Ace Forces in the WC series. Also. I’d like to know the actual numbers on what morale does before I can fully judge its worth. I’m guessing it’s not by a percentage but rather a flat damage reduction in this game since a serious general like Golitsyn still seems to hurt like hell but generics are seriously crippled or boosted. I’m not sure whether or not it affect defensive stats either (and defense is a mystery to me in this game). Erich von Manstein pls I’ll admit that it’s pretty good on Artillery/Infantry because they can’t kill loads of people quickly. But again, more for not being stunned than the damage reduction itself. Please forgive me for not explaining it here because it's a bit complicated. There's a thread about damage formula around that should be relatively easy to find. Ok, so according to that formula I was (if I didn't explode my head) fairly correct in that morale doesn't do THAT much, certainly not on generals at the very least. I mean a generic unit at full HP does 5/6/7 extra damage depending on the unit formation. That extra damage isn't a lot and it's hit hard with the unit health coefficient and evasion. A triple stacked generic militia at 30-50% HP takes and deals 3 extra damage if he's at high morale and if there's no evasion going on. If there's evasion (which there usually is) that damage would probably go down to 2 dealt and 3 taken. So yeah, not that important it seems. But that formula does explain a few fun things to me, like why my Lan when she's on a lv5 double stacked Guard Cavalry with high morale and the gilded cuirass at full HP is nearly invulnerable. She'd be taking like -22 damage from most things. Enough to reduce most enemy damage to 1. Another thing I'd like to learn is what's the chance of getting morale when killing something. |
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Post by 𝘛𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘴𝘬𝘺 on Mar 28, 2020 9:23:44 GMT
Please forgive me for not explaining it here because it's a bit complicated. There's a thread about damage formula around that should be relatively easy to find. Ok, so according to that formula I was (if I didn't explode my head) fairly correct in that morale doesn't do THAT much, certainly not on generals at the very least. I mean a generic unit at full HP does 5/6/7 extra damage depending on the unit formation. That extra damage isn't a lot and it's hit hard with the unit health coefficient and evasion. A triple stacked generic militia at 30-50% HP takes and deals 3 extra damage if he's at high morale and if there's no evasion going on. If there's evasion (which there usually is) that damage would probably go down to 2 dealt and 3 taken. So yeah, not that important it seems. But that formula does explain a few fun things to me, like why my Lan when she's on a lv5 double stacked Guard Cavalry with high morale and the gilded cuirass at full HP is nearly invulnerable. She'd be taking like -22 damage from most things. Enough to reduce most enemy damage to 1. Another thing I'd like to learn is what's the chance of getting morale when killing something. The pinned Thread Output Formular - is sooo helpful and picking the most important factors perfect but the Formular can't be 100% correct (morale as multiplier for formation - this is one of my doubts) - so my Experience is it feels like 50% for logical it's probably 1/3 (makes sense: 133% high Morale, 66% One down...) - don't forget the counterattack. The question when you're raising morale is like to examine when you get one Medal (it looks random but a lucky fight helps) - even nearby fights can rise/lower morale - and it depends on the unittype - I'm curious if you find the answer. --- Edit --- I did an unrepresentative test: mission Radetzky - Grenadiers (10*) Without (37-62) 503 Damage and (5-28) 158 received Same fight with flanking (50-77) 598 Damage 107 recived Without flanking he recived almost 50% more dammage (now I know why I never need defending items, tents etc) but my expectations were not right I apologise. |
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Post by SolidLight on Mar 29, 2020 20:29:51 GMT
Ok, so according to that formula I was (if I didn't explode my head) fairly correct in that morale doesn't do THAT much, certainly not on generals at the very least. I mean a generic unit at full HP does 5/6/7 extra damage depending on the unit formation. That extra damage isn't a lot and it's hit hard with the unit health coefficient and evasion. A triple stacked generic militia at 30-50% HP takes and deals 3 extra damage if he's at high morale and if there's no evasion going on. If there's evasion (which there usually is) that damage would probably go down to 2 dealt and 3 taken. So yeah, not that important it seems. But that formula does explain a few fun things to me, like why my Lan when she's on a lv5 double stacked Guard Cavalry with high morale and the gilded cuirass at full HP is nearly invulnerable. She'd be taking like -22 damage from most things. Enough to reduce most enemy damage to 1. Another thing I'd like to learn is what's the chance of getting morale when killing something. The pinned Thread Output Formular - is sooo helpful and picking the most important factors perfect but the Formular can't be 100% correct (morale as multiplier for formation - this is one of my doubts) - so my Experience is it feels like 50% for logical it's probably 1/3 (makes sense: 133% high Morale, 66% One down...) - don't forget the counterattack. The question when you're raising morale is like to examine when you get one Medal (it looks random but a lucky fight helps) - even nearby fights can rise/lower morale - and it depends on the unittype - I'm curious if you find the answer. --- Edit --- I did an unrepresentative test: mission Radetzky - Grenadiers (10*) Without (37-62) 503 Damage and (5-28) 158 received Same fight with flanking (50-77) 598 Damage 107 recived Without flanking he recived almost 50% more dammage (now I know why I never need defending items, tents etc) but my expectations were not right I apologise. That seems to line up pretty well with the formula. You took about ~5 more damage on average without flanking. Which still isn’t a lot, though admittedly it can add up, as you just showed. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 14, 2020 15:30:48 GMT
What bothers me are the people that think moreau, suvorov, and lassalle are the best iaps. I mean are the decent generals? Yes. But are they good iaps? No. Instead of buying one moreau for 6$ you could get for example a dobeln and a scharnhorst as starting generals.
Which means you have a moreau and a suvorov lite starting out. Moreau and Lassalle offer absolutely nothing that the princesses can’t, or even other free generals.
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Post by ambitiousace on Apr 15, 2020 1:43:48 GMT
What bothers me are the people that think moreau, suvorov, and lassalle are the best iaps. I mean are the decent generals? Yes. But are they good iaps? No. Instead of buying one moreau for 6$ you could get for example a dobeln and a scharnhorst as starting generals. Which means you have a moreau and a suvorov lite starting out. Moreau and Lassalle offer absolutely nothing that the princesses can’t, or even other free generals. We can all agree that lasalle is the worst among the three.Personally,Suvorov is not far from him as he can be easily overpowered by lannes or washington.Moreau however can be an inf-art hybrid like how Lannes can be inf-calv |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 15, 2020 2:13:55 GMT
What bothers me are the people that think moreau, suvorov, and lassalle are the best iaps. I mean are the decent generals? Yes. But are they good iaps? No. Instead of buying one moreau for 6$ you could get for example a dobeln and a scharnhorst as starting generals. Which means you have a moreau and a suvorov lite starting out. Moreau and Lassalle offer absolutely nothing that the princesses can’t, or even other free generals. We can all agree that lasalle is the worst among the three.Personally,Suvorov is not far from him as he can be easily overpowered by lannes or washington.Moreau however can be an inf-art hybrid like how Lannes can be inf-calv I disagree about the infantry artillery hybrid potential of moreau. He may have 4 stars sure, but no skills whatsover. That combined with bad training stars and movement makes him a bad infantry general. You might as well forget that the infantry side of him even exists as I eventually forgot moreau’s artillery capabilities as I barely used him once I got the princesses. Thats also where Sophia and Sakurako shine. Both of them are way better on infantry then Moreau can ever be. So imo as for moreau’s 4 infantry stars, pretend they don’t exist. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 15, 2020 2:19:01 GMT
What bothers me are the people that think moreau, suvorov, and lassalle are the best iaps. I mean are the decent generals? Yes. But are they good iaps? No. Instead of buying one moreau for 6$ you could get for example a dobeln and a scharnhorst as starting generals. Which means you have a moreau and a suvorov lite starting out. Moreau and Lassalle offer absolutely nothing that the princesses can’t, or even other free generals. We can all agree that lasalle is the worst among the three.Personally,Suvorov is not far from him as he can be easily overpowered by lannes or washington.Moreau however can be an inf-art hybrid like how Lannes can be inf-calv Suvorov is alright as he does have something dobeln can’t offer, that being 5 infantry stars. But imo that alone is not that great of a deal, and certainly nothing to spend money over. As for his skills, eh. Mass fire is good. Bugle is good (a very overrated skill though. The ai does spam trenches her so it does help but not that much), Formation is good. His only real damage adding perk is formation. So most of the time, powerful suvorov’s output is 10 more than the average 5 star infantry general. So wittengenstein’s output will be hard to distinguish from. Also, washington is only 2 emblems more, but has better movement, 5 trading stars, and leadership. So imo I know who I will buy. However, now victoria has assualt art meaning that her output will be wittengenstein’s at mininum, but then will release a nuke of damage. Same with Lannes. |
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