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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 15, 2020 2:28:36 GMT
The one I believe I have not been giving enough credit to is Murat. Murat definitely has his flaws but is a solid iap to purchase. Every one of his skills is great for a beginner. He deals massive damage towards anything, especially forts due to have 3 consistent skills against them (which also is fantastic late in conquests). He also has good stars (though only 2 training stars sadly). I have been thinking that he is on par with Dabrowski. As War Expert is void at max level, but the guy can still get from 28 hp to 125 hp very quickly. So he is quite a great buy too.
Although he suffers severely due to the fact that you do get Sophia very early on. He also has the weaknesses of lacking geography, strike, and lack of training stars. If murat had geography, he would be the best general in the game.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Apr 15, 2020 3:24:29 GMT
I don't think Murat even needs training stars. On guard cavs, every fort is a training star for him.
Did some math with my friends, Bugle > Mass Fire above 50% health (the scenario is 5*, HRE triple guards, 20% evasion). So if you can well preserve your generals' health then Bugle will be better. The main point of Bugle is to attack cities. Therefore Siege Matter is pretty close to Bugle in that aspect. It is no way an overrated skill.
I wrote this thread solely based on quality, not the worth of these generals. Plus I'm a big s/l hater. IMO anyone who recommends s/l to beginners should be spanked in the rear. That's why I'm not a fan of Davout (in some ways he is definitely irreplaceable though).
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 15, 2020 11:16:43 GMT
I don't think Murat even needs training stars. On guard cavs, every fort is a training star for him. Did some math with my friends, Bugle > Mass Fire above 50% health (the scenario is 5*, HRE triple guards, 20% evasion). So if you can well preserve your generals' health then Bugle will be better. The main point of Bugle is to attack cities. Therefore Siege Matter is pretty close to Bugle in that aspect. It is no way an overrated skill. I wrote this thread solely based on quality, not the worth of these generals. Plus I'm a big s/l hater. IMO anyone who recommends s/l to beginners should be spanked in the rear. That's why I'm not a fan of Davout (in some ways he is definitely irreplaceable though). I have never used s&l yet still think davout is significantly better than his peers. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 15, 2020 11:28:42 GMT
I don't think Murat even needs training stars. On guard cavs, every fort is a training star for him. Did some math with my friends, Bugle > Mass Fire above 50% health (the scenario is 5*, HRE triple guards, 20% evasion). So if you can well preserve your generals' health then Bugle will be better. The main point of Bugle is to attack cities. Therefore Siege Matter is pretty close to Bugle in that aspect. It is no way an overrated skill. I wrote this thread solely based on quality, not the worth of these generals. Plus I'm a big s/l hater. IMO anyone who recommends s/l to beginners should be spanked in the rear. That's why I'm not a fan of Davout (in some ways he is definitely irreplaceable though). Yes read your description. Bugle type skills are pretty good. But mass is imo the best infantry skill. Because if you are at 15% health, the only way you can regain your health is either by leveling up (training stats) or killing enemies. But a general with that little health without mass fire will deal 10-20 damage. Whereas generals with mass fire deal significantly more while absorbing the bare mininum damage. So while bugle adds up to 20% damage, mass fire will make a 200% damage difference at very low healths (on a weak general like Lusignan). For a strong general like Dobeln, it will be a 300% damage difference as you will be dealing damages of 60 rather than 20. Bugle is better than formation though. First thing infantry need is mass fire, then leadership, then maybe bugle. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Apr 23, 2020 5:09:31 GMT
I don't think Murat even needs training stars. On guard cavs, every fort is a training star for him. Did some math with my friends, Bugle > Mass Fire above 50% health (the scenario is 5*, HRE triple guards, 20% evasion). So if you can well preserve your generals' health then Bugle will be better. The main point of Bugle is to attack cities. Therefore Siege Matter is pretty close to Bugle in that aspect. It is no way an overrated skill. I wrote this thread solely based on quality, not the worth of these generals. Plus I'm a big s/l hater. IMO anyone who recommends s/l to beginners should be spanked in the rear. That's why I'm not a fan of Davout (in some ways he is definitely irreplaceable though). Yes read your description. Bugle type skills are pretty good. But mass is imo the best infantry skill. Because if you are at 15% health, the only way you can regain your health is either by leveling up (training stats) or killing enemies. But a general with that little health without mass fire will deal 10-20 damage. Whereas generals with mass fire deal significantly more while absorbing the bare mininum damage. So while bugle adds up to 20% damage, mass fire will make a 200% damage difference at very low healths (on a weak general like Lusignan). For a strong general like Dobeln, it will be a 300% damage difference as you will be dealing damages of 60 rather than 20. Bugle is better than formation though. First thing infantry need is mass fire, then leadership, then maybe bugle. Bugle > Formation definitely. After all it only add around 3 to the average output. But Formation + Assault Art can sometimes be a miracle maker (btw screw easytech for not making our Brock AI Brock). On MF vs Bugle I would still pick Bugle but I would say it really depends on how we use them. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 25, 2020 20:44:37 GMT
I can’t wait to resume my list. But I do have a couple questions.
1. I feel as though Dobeln should be green instead of pink or even blue. Sure he has mass fire + bugle + 5 stars.
The reasons are that
- He is an infantry general. Infantry generals are not great for getting princesses.
- He is not a trainer. Sulkowski, Raevsky, Scharnhorst are all fantastic trainers with decent movement (except Sulkowski, but its forgivable). Plus a 900 medal check is a lot.
- He has 0 training stars.
- You get Maria who is a reasonable infantry general early on. You also get Sakurako who is an improvement on Maria, and then you will get Victoria. Regardless if you have only 4 slots, or have all 12, I feel as tho Dobeln is kind of meh.
He is still obviously pretty good as with tall boots, he’ll be a pretty competent and fast infantry general. But he does have many flaws hindering him.
I feel that Zakrevsky is a far better purchase as he is a trainer, making the actual waste on him under 35 medals, as he is barely more expensive than Latour. While Bugle is lost, bugle and 2 extra stars that Dobeln.
Plus for the price of one dobeln, you could have a zakresky and a lusignan for campaign missions, which will be of a great help. Do you guys agree with the harsh rating, or should it be blue at least.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 25, 2020 20:52:41 GMT
The other one I am unsure of is Yermolov. Yermolov imo is significantly worse than scharnhorst as in trying to be an infantry hybrid, Yermolov loses an entire hex of movement due to his lack of engineering. While this is fixable with items, this would either require two oak wheels or a horse artillery to fix. Which is very expensive. On infantry, he is not exactly spectacular either. Imo, he is very meh on infantry. Plus bugle >>> formation, so you will rarely use him on infantry.
As Sophia is obtainable very early on, 3 artillery generals is not needed.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Apr 25, 2020 22:10:07 GMT
I can’t wait to resume my list. But I do have a couple questions. 1. I feel as though Dobeln should be green instead of pink or even blue. Sure he has mass fire + bugle + 5 stars. The reasons are that - He is an infantry general. Infantry generals are not great for getting princesses. - He is not a trainer. Sulkowski, Raevsky, Scharnhorst are all fantastic trainers with decent movement (except Sulkowski, but its forgivable). Plus a 900 medal check is a lot. - He has 0 training stars. - You get Maria who is a reasonable infantry general early on. You also get Sakurako who is an improvement on Maria, and then you will get Victoria. Regardless if you have only 4 slots, or have all 12, I feel as tho Dobeln is kind of meh. He is still obviously pretty good as with tall boots, he’ll be a pretty competent and fast infantry general. But he does have many flaws hindering him. I feel that Zakrevsky is a far better purchase as he is a trainer, making the actual waste on him under 35 medals, as he is barely more expensive than Latour. While Bugle is lost, bugle and 2 extra stars that Dobeln. Plus for the price of one dobeln, you could have a zakresky and a lusignan for campaign missions, which will be of a great help. Do you guys agree with the harsh rating, or should it be blue at least. I actually never thought about buying Dobeln early on. Maria is good enough for pre-Lan period, plus some of us will have access to Arnold. IMO he will be a quite decent last slot filler since a good number of late game campaigns only have one cavalry unit to begin with but there's always one infantry unit available. Victoria is certainly better for the last slot since she has navy ability, but if someone finds getting her too difficult or thinks 3* isn't enough then Dobeln or Oudinot is the way to go. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Apr 25, 2020 22:15:43 GMT
The other one I am unsure of is Yermolov. Yermolov imo is significantly worse than scharnhorst as in trying to be an infantry hybrid, Yermolov loses an entire hex of movement due to his lack of engineering. While this is fixable with items, this would either require two oak wheels or a horse artillery to fix. Which is very expensive. On infantry, he is not exactly spectacular either. Imo, he is very meh on infantry. Plus bugle >>> formation, so you will rarely use him on infantry. As Sophia is obtainable very early on, 3 artillery generals is not needed. He is ok, but not out there. If all of Scharnhorst, Kutaisov, and Gazan are out of reach then why not Yermolov? Btw what do you think about this beginning strategy: play 1798 HRE right away for Sophia, Fatimah, and Maria, then 1775 US for Kate (or the other way around). Use these four to reach Austro-Turkish War, rent the crown with Radetzky and max out the nobility of all four for Lan. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 25, 2020 23:22:41 GMT
The other one I am unsure of is Yermolov. Yermolov imo is significantly worse than scharnhorst as in trying to be an infantry hybrid, Yermolov loses an entire hex of movement due to his lack of engineering. While this is fixable with items, this would either require two oak wheels or a horse artillery to fix. Which is very expensive. On infantry, he is not exactly spectacular either. Imo, he is very meh on infantry. Plus bugle >>> formation, so you will rarely use him on infantry. As Sophia is obtainable very early on, 3 artillery generals is not needed. He is ok, but not out there. If all of Scharnhorst, Kutaisov, and Gazan are out of reach then why not Yermolov? Btw what do you think about this beginning strategy: play 1798 HRE right away for Sophia, Fatimah, and Maria, then 1775 US for Kate (or the other way around). Use these four to reach Austro-Turkish War, rent the crown with Radetzky and max out the nobility of all four for Lan. Not a bad plan. Playing hre in the beginning is a great way to learn the mechanics of the game. Reaching 250 years in europe will not be too hard of a challenge, well maybe on the first run. If you send archduke charles to spain and protect Klenau, I don’t see how it can take that long. Especially as a beginner will not be doing it by themselves, but rather with a cheap general like dumoriez or Charles. (Or kutaisov). Once Sophia and Fatimah are obtainable, Farming for Katherine, Maria, or even Sakurako will not be that hard, as Britain 1812 isn’t too bad to play with. This in my opinion is how I would do it. HRE 1798 - Get Fatimah and Sophia - > Chain the Beast (Coaltion) - Grab Oak wheel for Sophia -> USA 1776 to get Kate -> Play France 1798 to get Maria and if lucky, Isabella - > Britain 1812 -> Get Sakurako - > Beat Coalition Campaign for better items like horse artillery and saddle -> Grab Lan -> Grab Victoria |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 25, 2020 23:25:55 GMT
I can’t wait to resume my list. But I do have a couple questions. 1. I feel as though Dobeln should be green instead of pink or even blue. Sure he has mass fire + bugle + 5 stars. The reasons are that - He is an infantry general. Infantry generals are not great for getting princesses. - He is not a trainer. Sulkowski, Raevsky, Scharnhorst are all fantastic trainers with decent movement (except Sulkowski, but its forgivable). Plus a 900 medal check is a lot. - He has 0 training stars. - You get Maria who is a reasonable infantry general early on. You also get Sakurako who is an improvement on Maria, and then you will get Victoria. Regardless if you have only 4 slots, or have all 12, I feel as tho Dobeln is kind of meh. He is still obviously pretty good as with tall boots, he’ll be a pretty competent and fast infantry general. But he does have many flaws hindering him. I feel that Zakrevsky is a far better purchase as he is a trainer, making the actual waste on him under 35 medals, as he is barely more expensive than Latour. While Bugle is lost, bugle and 2 extra stars that Dobeln. Plus for the price of one dobeln, you could have a zakresky and a lusignan for campaign missions, which will be of a great help. Do you guys agree with the harsh rating, or should it be blue at least. I actually never thought about buying Dobeln early on. Maria is good enough for pre-Lan period, plus some of us will have access to Arnold. IMO he will be a quite decent last slot filler since a good number of late game campaigns only have one cavalry unit to begin with but there's always one infantry unit available. Victoria is certainly better for the last slot since she has navy ability, but if someone finds getting her too difficult or thinks 3* isn't enough then Dobeln or Oudinot is the way to go. I don’t see how starting victoria is any worse than Dobeln. Fine, she loses 2 stars on infantry. But she has 4 star movement, assualt art, defense art, and 5 training stars thrown in. So many benefits for only two stars difference. I am not really a fan of victoria either. Imo Golitsyn with a snair drum is probably the best last slot filler anyone can ask for. But Victoria is a significant improvement on Dobeln. |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 25, 2020 23:27:49 GMT
Indeed. Kutaisov is a slower sophia without spy. He has the same movement as Yermolov, and even though accurate is good, its not better than explosives + siege.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Apr 25, 2020 23:33:34 GMT
He is ok, but not out there. If all of Scharnhorst, Kutaisov, and Gazan are out of reach then why not Yermolov? Btw what do you think about this beginning strategy: play 1798 HRE right away for Sophia, Fatimah, and Maria, then 1775 US for Kate (or the other way around). Use these four to reach Austro-Turkish War, rent the crown with Radetzky and max out the nobility of all four for Lan. Not a bad plan. Playing hre in the beginning is a great way to learn the mechanics of the game. Reaching 250 years in europe will not be too hard of a challenge, well maybe on the first run. If you send archduke charles to spain and protect Klenau, I don’t see how it can take that long. Especially as a beginner will not be doing it by themselves, but rather with a cheap general like dumoriez or Charles. (Or kutaisov). Once Sophia and Fatimah are obtainable, Farming for Katherine, Maria, or even Sakurako will not be that hard, as Britain 1812 isn’t too bad to play with. This in my opinion is how I would do it. HRE 1798 - Get Fatimah and Sophia - > Chain the Beast (Coaltion) - Grab Oak wheel for Sophia -> USA 1776 to get Kate -> Play France 1798 to get Maria and if lucky, Isabella - > Britain 1812 -> Get Sakurako - > Beat Coalition Campaign for better items like horse artillery and saddle -> Grab Lan -> Grab Victoria US 1775 is definitely enough for Lan. I wiped out all enemies on the 22nd turn and kept that port until the 25th for more resources.  |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Apr 25, 2020 23:34:28 GMT
Indeed. Kutaisov is a slower sophia without spy. He has the same movement as Yermolov, and even though accurate is good, its not better than explosives + siege. I think it is. There are many enemies on your way to those cities, and evasions against cavalry and artillery units are very common. I do agree that siege + formation > bugle though. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Apr 25, 2020 23:38:29 GMT
I actually never thought about buying Dobeln early on. Maria is good enough for pre-Lan period, plus some of us will have access to Arnold. IMO he will be a quite decent last slot filler since a good number of late game campaigns only have one cavalry unit to begin with but there's always one infantry unit available. Victoria is certainly better for the last slot since she has navy ability, but if someone finds getting her too difficult or thinks 3* isn't enough then Dobeln or Oudinot is the way to go. I don’t see how starting victoria is any worse than Dobeln. Fine, she loses 2 stars on infantry. But she has 4 star movement, assualt art, defense art, and 5 training stars thrown in. So many benefits for only two stars difference. I am not really a fan of victoria either. Imo Golitsyn with a snair drum is probably the best last slot filler anyone can ask for. But Victoria is a significant improvement on Dobeln. I know, but you never know how people think (but why don't you just get two Ferguson?). As for Golitsyn... sometimes you really have to wait for a few turns and spend a good bunch of valuable resources to build a cavalry unit for him, whereas Victoria can be deployed right away. I consider that a difference. Can be big or small depending on the playing style. |
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