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Post by stoic on Dec 24, 2023 7:54:53 GMT
Every bordering nation declares war no matter how late. And oich/karo doesnt work on distant clans so I would say diplomacy out unless you make the adjustment in setup but that would be meaningless for many clans because diplomacy is too expensive. Maybe for some clans with allies it would be viable to not max diplomacy tier to keep them as allies. For rewards I am not sure if it is stars but at least half of the clans reward only gifts beside magatama and bankin? Well, I haven't played half of EW7 conquests, so no-one can prevent me from doing the same here  In short-term perspective we have plenty to do. Probably all 1* clans have good rewards. And GCS Challenge conquest are easier to handle because you can hire for all your generals top tier units like Horse Archers, or Elite Samurais. And you have control over food production. |
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Post by kyokusanagi on Dec 24, 2023 8:21:23 GMT
So true.
Game needs some more rime to be updated properly,
now many things are the same, and many characters are without CV ^_^
I asked about Conquests because only that left for me to do.
And of course farming myriads of coins.....
EW 4 was more challenging.
This game is a good relief for serious strategists here I think.
Next game in future???
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Post by stoic on Dec 24, 2023 8:36:23 GMT
So true. Game needs some more rime to be updated properly, now many things are the same, and many characters are without CV ^_^ I asked about Conquests because only that left for me to do. And of course farming myriads of coins..... EW 4 was more challenging. This game is a good relief for serious strategists here I think. Next game in future??? This one is not finished yet, I believe |
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Post by stoic on Dec 25, 2023 8:58:29 GMT
Tsutsui has excellent rewards including 10 Magatama, 300 Ban-kin, 30 Iron plates and 30 Gold Ingots. But there is a script we have to be aware of. After some initial turns Shogunate demanded gifts. I refused since the war was inevitable anyway and I thought it would be profitable if they declared war themselves. Unfortunately, this decision (namely refusing to present a gift) was considered as if I declared war on Shogunate with all bad consequences. Diplomatic relations with all factions were ruined immediately, so I literally had to conquer the whole map. I don't know if it is a script valid for Tsutsui only or a general feature in challenge conquests, but if we can't make Shogunate our ally we face a total war sooner or later (or we should delay declaring war on Shogunate until circumstances are in our favor). My first challenge conquest was exactly Shogunate, so I didn't have this problem  |
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Post by run4glory on Dec 25, 2023 11:04:10 GMT
As far as I can remember, hitting -100 with the Shogun always results in the bad consequences you mentioned, no matter who declared war (Possibly I also declined tribute of them every time however, so idk whats causing it). But I also never did not conquer the entire map in challenge mode. How are you even able to ally people in the first place? Diplomacy seems totally out of the question for me
Edit: I just declined a tribute from the Shogun and nothing happened, so I do think the penalties are caused by hitting -100, not declining tribute itself
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Post by stoic on Dec 25, 2023 11:51:45 GMT
As far as I can remember, hitting -100 with the Shogun always results in the bad consequences you mentioned, no matter who declared war (Possibly I also declined tribute of them every time however, so idk whats causing it). But I also never did not conquer the entire map in challenge mode. How are you even able to ally people in the first place? Diplomacy seems totally out of the question for me
Edit: I just declined a tribute from the Shogun and nothing happened, so I do think the penalties are caused by hitting -100, not declining tribute itself
Usually distant clans are unconcerned for wars far away from them and their diplomatic stance remains stable. So, if you play for western clans the chance is high that minor eastern clans like Hatakeyama or Nagano become your allies eventually. The value of it is limited though since you have to conquer Nagao by yourself anyway. I tried to make an Ally out of Nagao once but even after achieving +130 in diplomatic relations there wasn't any chance to cement an Alliance. Absolutely 0. Yet, I am planning to test it once more and to see, whether there is a slight probability after achieving +200 stance. |
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Post by run4glory on Dec 25, 2023 11:59:32 GMT
As far as I can remember, hitting -100 with the Shogun always results in the bad consequences you mentioned, no matter who declared war (Possibly I also declined tribute of them every time however, so idk whats causing it). But I also never did not conquer the entire map in challenge mode. How are you even able to ally people in the first place? Diplomacy seems totally out of the question for me
Edit: I just declined a tribute from the Shogun and nothing happened, so I do think the penalties are caused by hitting -100, not declining tribute itself
Usually distant clans are unconcerned for wars far away from them and their diplomatic stance remains stable. So, if you play for western clans the chance is high that minor eastern clans like Hatakeyama or Nagano become your allies eventually. The value of it is limited though since you have to conquer Nagao by yourself anyway. I tried to make an Ally out of Nagao once but even after achieving +130 in diplomatic relations there wasn't any chance to cement an Alliance. Absolutely 0. Yet, I am planning to test it once more and to see, whether there is a slight probability after achieving +200 stance. I must be missing sth, how are you countering the -9 penalty (-5 if you choose to make some other part of the conquest harder instead) that hits as soon as a country enters diplomatic range? There is also no way to gain credit bc you have no allies to begin with? |
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Post by stoic on Dec 25, 2023 13:00:36 GMT
Usually distant clans are unconcerned for wars far away from them and their diplomatic stance remains stable. So, if you play for western clans the chance is high that minor eastern clans like Hatakeyama or Nagano become your allies eventually. The value of it is limited though since you have to conquer Nagao by yourself anyway. I tried to make an Ally out of Nagao once but even after achieving +130 in diplomatic relations there wasn't any chance to cement an Alliance. Absolutely 0. Yet, I am planning to test it once more and to see, whether there is a slight probability after achieving +200 stance. I must be missing sth, how are you countering the -9 penalty (-5 if you choose to make some other part of the conquest harder instead) that hits as soon as a country enters diplomatic range? There is also no way to gain credit bc you have no allies to begin with? I always do two things 😌 First things first - appoint Oichi as Hime. Scholar lvl 2 is still OP anyway. And then appoint Mori as Karo. Since we have plenty of knowledge (often more than we can spend) and accumulate it with our progress I can usually afford it without any dire consequences. And since days of EW7 Challenge conquests I always choose to minimize the diplomatic deterioration and to improve initial diplomatic stance. Maybe it is not as important in GCS as it was in EW7. But I don't see any good alternatives so far.  |
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Post by run4glory on Dec 25, 2023 14:50:03 GMT
Very interesting... I did these two things in any other conquest before challenge mode was introduced and they indeed made conquest like a walk in the park. I never actually tried in challenge mode bc.. according to my math it didnt work  maybe I should try instead of calculating I completely skipped EW7, so I wouldnt know about any comparisons to EW7. Currently I have the tavern cost increase opted out (since I found it too hard otw to even get a snowball running) plus (more due to lack of alternatives, bc I completely gave up on diplomacy) only 20% damage increase of enemy forces. Maybe I should add that my general's team is pretty weak compared to most ppl here (started like 2-3 weeks ago and f2p), so I thought they were the most sensible. |
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Post by Dannes on Dec 25, 2023 15:25:36 GMT
Huh
Being a suzerain for Imagawa is one amazing buff for a Challenge Run Tokugawa
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Post by stoic on Dec 25, 2023 15:50:53 GMT
Very interesting... I did these two things in any other conquest before challenge mode was introduced and they indeed made conquest like a walk in the park. I never actually tried in challenge mode bc.. according to my math it didnt work maybe I should try instead of calculating I completely skipped EW7, so I wouldnt know about any comparisons to EW7. Currently I have the tavern cost increase opted out (since I found it too hard otw to even get a snowball running) plus (more due to lack of alternatives, bc I completely gave up on diplomacy) only 20% damage increase of enemy forces. Maybe I should add that my general's team is pretty weak compared to most ppl here (started like 2-3 weeks ago and f2p), so I thought they were the most sensible. Here are fruits of such policy. It's turn 16 but Tsutsui is still neutral and deterioration of relations with Ashikaga is not so drastic. Quite probably it will end up with Alliance with Tsutsui.  |
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Post by balthazar on Dec 25, 2023 17:13:32 GMT
Does bordering penalty apply to all clans? I had oichi and Karo but they were not enough. I even managed to get a passage agreement with uesegi but the moment I have a shared border relations started to deteriorate. Karo gives you +5 while bordering has - 6. We have inferior prestige which doesnt help at all as well. So unless these penalties differ for some clans I cant see the way of the diplomacy either.
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Post by stoic on Dec 25, 2023 18:02:51 GMT
Does bordering penalty apply to all clans? I had oichi and Karo but they were not enough. I even managed to get a passage agreement with uesegi but the moment I have a shared border relations started to deteriorate. Karo gives you +5 while bordering has - 6. We have inferior prestige which doesnt help at all as well. So unless these penalties differ for some clans I cant see the way of the diplomacy either. Perhaps penalties are not the same. Here it is possible to obtain Passage agreement with a bordering state without too much effort  |
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Post by run4glory on Dec 25, 2023 18:50:47 GMT
So bordering is always -6, but there are certain "personality traits" of the individual clan leaders that could give a bonus, and I can see with the highest effort plus this bonus can tip relationships to the positive side. Considering that this is very conditional so you could at most ally a handful (and probably very fragmented on the map) and your start is a already bit slower (due to higher tavern cost), idk if it actually saves time. I would have to make another full conquest in order to figure out One question that I am asking myself however: What stars is your Oichi stoic? Maybe your Oichi gives more than just +3? |
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Post by stoic on Dec 25, 2023 18:53:53 GMT
So bordering is always -6, but there are certain "personality traits" of the individual clan leaders that could give a bonus, and I can see with the highest effort plus this bonus can tip relationships to the positive side. Considering that this is very conditional so you could at most ally a handful (and probably very fragmented on the map) and your start is a already bit slower (due to higher tavern cost), idk if it actually saves time. I would have to make another full conquest in order to figure out One question that I am asking myself however: What stars is your Oichi stoic? Maybe your Oichi gives more than just +3? It is quite an ordinary 4* Oichi 🙂 I doubt it is possible to increase her passive "hime" skills. At least I haven't encountered an item able to do it. |
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In short-term perspective we have plenty to do. Probably all 1* clans have good rewards. And GCS Challenge conquest are easier to handle because you can hire for all your generals top tier units like Horse Archers, or Elite Samurais. And you have control over food production.
maybe I should try instead of calculating 
