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Post by blueberry on Jan 5, 2024 23:53:18 GMT
It's explicitly stated that the prestige level must be higher than all other clans, the win condition is the same for challenge mode and normal hegemony runs.   The interesting thing for me is how you managed to achieve victory while only at zenith - challenge runs for me involve conquering so many nations that I end up at overlord without even trying. Thank you, I didn’t know about this inscription (after so many conquests...🤦🤷) Regarding the zenith. The challenge for Nagao is one of the easiest. The only difficulty is that at the beginning there is a war on two fronts against Jinbo and Takeda. I took -5 to relations per turn and -40 at the start. I tried to take clans with bonuses to relationships as potential allies, such as a conservatively neutral one. In the middle of the game, he made Ashikaga an ally, helped him twice and received +5 to his relationships with everyone. Lol, I also never noticed that stuff, now it's clear... [insert Picard facepalm here] |
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Post by run4glory on Jan 6, 2024 0:16:32 GMT
Have people played with the friendly AI? When do you start to use it?
I just tried it at 60% of the map, soon after hitting Formidable reputation. I always used AI at much later so far so I was a bit anxious to hit that Auto-button. And indeed, the AI immediately trained hundreds of completely ineffective troops (triple-stacked, weak troops). I was getting worried. But here was the thing: After 15 turns, the AI still didnt really conquer anything but didnt lose land either. And because 15 turns means 15x the income in a few minutes, I suddenly had so much money to throw around that I could comfortably pay 2 out of the 5 remaining nations into submission. I run the AI again. Now the other 3 didnt stand a chance.
Despite wasting so many turns the score still was at like 277k sth, so still S by a huge margin. Looking back, I could have started the AI waaay earlier, just didnt realize this until now...
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Post by balthazar on Jan 6, 2024 15:09:56 GMT
AI messes up if there are multiple expansion routes. I try to bring that to two then let AI run it. Playing with Takeda or Miyoshi that was very easy, after clearing small neighbouring clans I let AI do the most of the job. But that didnt work for central clans, like Ashigaku or Oda.I had to conquer one side of the map before letting AI and even after that it took way too many turns.
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on Jan 7, 2024 12:57:58 GMT
As Imagawa, how does one push the Hojo to immediately break off the alliance with Takeda and help?
Not that one would need it since a quick knockout blow to Tokugawa and brief advance into southern Kai helps. But I'm curious.
The benefit of Hojo not joining is that it will focus more on the eastern front and will not connect with Uesugi as fast.
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Post by VizzyT on Jan 8, 2024 8:51:37 GMT
My strategy regarding the auto mode is the same in about every game:
1) manual play until when your situation is very comfortable, i.e. when you have enough gold to recruit multiple units, there are no existential threats, and victory is pretty much guaranteed.
2) manual play, but only by creating army groups and manually giving them objectives to capture. (This part is a bit less efficient than completely playing manually, but its a lot more time efficient, and honestly its kinda fun to imagine being a general who only gives orders to his various army groups)
3) completely auto mode, with some grozps being given some general objectives that are more important than others.
I would definitely encourage trying to play this way, would love to hear your opinions on it!
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on Jan 14, 2024 17:48:19 GMT
In Challenge mode, did anyone win as a subordinate to Imagawa (Matsudaira) or Rokkaku (Iga)? Do we need to conquer all clans? It seems that AI can still subordinate others, though not as often. Probably due to the Prestige difference. Imagawa is currently at 2k Zenith. Was a high Renowned clan when it subjugated Kawachi Hatakeyama.  |
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Post by run4glory on Jan 14, 2024 18:57:59 GMT
Do you mean just winning starting as a subordinate state or also finishing in the subordinate state? If the latter, no. The former, yes. Its very easy in fact, since no diplomatic penalties apply while being a subordinate. So you can just chill and basically take one enemy at a time. At some point you would want to break free from your master for speed tho. Since you cannot declare war you only get war by stepping your troops in their land and wait a long time. Remember that as your empire grows as a subordinate, you at some point border nations so far from your master that the diplomacy remains stable.
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Post by Theron of Acragas on Jan 14, 2024 19:09:15 GMT
Do you mean just winning starting as a subordinate state or also finishing in the subordinate state? If the latter, no. The former, yes. Its very easy in fact, since no diplomatic penalties apply while being a subordinate. So you can just chill and basically take one enemy at a time. At some point you would want to break free from your master for speed tho. Since you cannot declare war you only get war by stepping your troops in their land and wait a long time. Remember that as your empire grows as a subordinate, you at some point border nations so far from your master that the diplomacy remains stable. It's very easy as Matsudaira. My first attempt as Iga ended in disaster after Rokkaku picked a fight with absolutely everyone. If the question is can you win as a subordinate, I took the condition that all territory must be controlled by allies or subordinates to exclude suzerains, but haven't tested it. |
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Post by SolidLight on Jan 16, 2024 11:40:05 GMT
So lately I’ve been trying out a new strategy, and I’d say I’ve had pretty good success with it after doing it with about three different runs. This is how I’m doing on turn 30 as Kitabatake:  153 units and Oda and Matsudaira are about to bite the dust. What I’m doing is massing up huge swarms of 1 stack ashigarus (of each unit type, but primarily infantry and archers) instead of upgrading basically anything at all except for a couple markets. Sometimes I save some money if I can get to spawn a big unit to put a general on, and sometimes I spawn a bigger stack if it means the difference between the enemy taking a city or not. Cost efficiency is extremely important because almost everything that happens has a compounding effect that magnifies whatever advantage you have. If you spend less money to defend something then you have more over to go on the offensive. Going on the offensive means you get more money from cities and the enemy gets less, which means their attack gets weaker and yours gets stronger. And you get more prestige which means your units get even better at defending and attacking etc. And lots of units help beyond just being cost effective. It’s better to use them to capture cities, and they can also be used to counter that movement interrupt mechanic, which can be the difference between taking a city or not. It’s not that fun to play like this because moving hordes of ashigaru to deal scratch damage is really tedious, and I’m extremely prone to overlook whenever the AI can take a city from me, which is annoying, but it’s still been pretty effective so far. |
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Post by run4glory on Jan 16, 2024 12:58:37 GMT
Can't say I recommend spamming Ashigaru also for offense, since this just sounds like efficient maybe in turns but highly inefficient in terms of playing time (which is the only variable I care about  ) for me. I do absolutely recommend spamming 1 stack (everything more than 1 stack on a non-general unit is indeed waste of money) high-quality troops however, my favourite being sword master (alternatively samurai, horoshu, akazonae, hatamoto. You'll have one of them unlocked). Even at a low level (I really cannot wait for the next update where this unit is unlocked tho) it hits pretty hard (harder than most high-level cavalry units even, mainly because of its various skills that buff dmg) and is just in general a pretty capable unit. I mostly have to move 60-80 units per turn at this stage where you're at and get similarly far like you. At turn 50 latest the situation is "AI-able". Obviously, this is only possible with a high knowledge output. So upgrade every single college you can.
Edit: And dont forget the cannons. The "making buildings very fragile" trait, which is just a +50% damage buff on every subsequent attack is ultra valuable against every walled city.
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Post by Theron of Acragas on Jan 16, 2024 18:13:08 GMT
Can't say I recommend spamming Ashigaru also for offense, since this just sounds like efficient maybe in turns but highly inefficient in terms of playing time (which is the only variable I care about ) for me. I do absolutely recommend spamming 1 stack (everything more than 1 stack on a non-general unit is indeed waste of money) high-quality troops however, my favourite being sword master (alternatively samurai, horoshu, akazonae, hatamoto. You'll have one of them unlocked). Even at a low level (I really cannot wait for the next update where this unit is unlocked tho) it hits pretty hard (harder than most high-level cavalry units even, mainly because of its various skills that buff dmg) and is just in general a pretty capable unit. I mostly have to move 60-80 units per turn at this stage where you're at and get similarly far like you. At turn 50 latest the situation is "AI-able". Obviously, this is only possible with a high knowledge output. So upgrade every single college you can.
Edit: And dont forget the cannons. The "making buildings very fragile" trait, which is just a +50% damage buff on every subsequent attack is ultra valuable against every walled city.
Triple-stack cannon (probably even double-stack once you've upgraded them) can also single-shot even a level 3 castle, which makes them a pretty cheap and cost-effective way of grabbing territory once you've expanded a bit. So yeah, later stages of conquests are pretty much "spam sword master and cannons". |
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Post by run4glory on Jan 17, 2024 0:38:57 GMT
AI messes up if there are multiple expansion routes. I try to bring that to two then let AI run it. Playing with Takeda or Miyoshi that was very easy, after clearing small neighbouring clans I let AI do the most of the job. But that didnt work for central clans, like Ashigaku or Oda.I had to conquer one side of the map before letting AI and even after that it took way too many turns. Yes, I should have taken your advice more to heart and now learned the hard way. Its not a matter of how many % you control the map, but ONLY how many possible expansion routes there are. I controlled the entire center (60-70%) one big front on the east, and multiple others (Miyoshi and some small nation in the south) with only 3-4 cities left. Abysmal was an understatement to describe what the AI did.. it curled all troops into balls in the center and basically gave up all cities on all fronts. The enemy took all cities they were able to take in 3-4 turns, destroying at least half an hour of progress in just about 1 minute. Never, ever unnecessarily leave fronts open, no matter your %control and prestige level. |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on Jan 18, 2024 10:31:36 GMT
 First win as a subordinate: Matsudaira of the first era. In the end, anyone that wasn't an Imagawa subordinate was destroyed. At the end, we shared the same prestige level of Zenith, but I have a large number than my suzerain.
You can see how much excess materials I had especially since I didn't need to spend so much. I did not lower the starting penalty and erosion over time, both of which did not affect me. Same went for the penalty of triggering war with and destroying the Ashikaga Clan. |
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Post by kyokusanagi on Jan 18, 2024 21:15:50 GMT
Today I finished another conquest, wirh rhe guy from the Western Islands.
Some ideas....
Instead of taking big boss I took Artillery guy and the general giving him next move, this made conquer much faster, then other gens.
But the best was , I did War with all the provincies on my own that were on the total oposite from me.
Thanks to that They were running like crazy though other countries and finally melt dawn.
Ie Lion Guy with funny Hair, Red Leader ^_^
Conquest is painfully slow, but every time faster, now most of my gens have horses and some weapon, this is also important, no matter who uou ll get, he ll be with some toys.
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Post by xMINGx on Jan 20, 2024 3:58:37 GMT
I find it so stupid that the regular conquest rewards and challenge rewards are separate. Now I have to play the faction twice to get both rewards.
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) for me. I do absolutely recommend spamming 1 stack (everything more than 1 stack on a non-general unit is indeed waste of money) high-quality troops however, my favourite being sword master (alternatively samurai, horoshu, akazonae, hatamoto. You'll have one of them unlocked). Even at a low level (I really cannot wait for the next update where this unit is unlocked tho) it hits pretty hard (harder than most high-level cavalry units even, mainly because of its various skills that buff dmg) and is just in general a pretty capable unit. I mostly have to move 60-80 units per turn at this stage where you're at and get similarly far like you. At turn 50 latest the situation is "AI-able". Obviously, this is only possible with a high knowledge output. So upgrade every single college you can.
