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Post by Nobunaga Oda on Dec 1, 2023 14:14:26 GMT
Playing as the Matsudaira but the only option, even after waiting a turn, to break my subordination is to revolt and lose 30 credits (extremely poor credit score). Apparently, the Matsudaira reaction to the Battle of Okehazama only activates when playing as a third party. Does that mean Imagawa Yoshimoto will not perish when playing as the Oda? When you kill Yoshimoto, the Matsudaira will become neutral with maximum good attitude, and the Imagawa troops will lose morale. If I understand correctly, if we play as the Oda clan, we have to personally take him out because the ambush does not take place automatically for the Oda, correct? Does he re-spawn? The cost of overthrowing Imagawa rule when playing as the Matsudaira also means throwing away relations with the Ashikaga Shogunate. Not a severe setback, but still a setback. |
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Post by truhses on Dec 1, 2023 14:52:43 GMT
When you kill Yoshimoto, the Matsudaira will become neutral with maximum good attitude, and the Imagawa troops will lose morale. If I understand correctly, if we play as the Oda clan, we have to personally take him out because the ambush does not take place automatically for the Oda, correct? Does he re-spawn? The cost of overthrowing Imagawa rule when playing as the Matsudaira also means throwing away relations with the Ashikaga Shogunate. Not a severe setback, but still a setback. I killed him before turn 8, when the Matsudaira rebellion scene appears, so I can't say whether it will automatically trigger or not. |
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Post by truhses on Dec 1, 2023 15:39:04 GMT
Yes, when playing as Matsudaira, the uprising does not automatically occur on turn 8 (in my opinion, a flaw of the developers), but the Imagawa armies lose morale. This is a favorable moment for an attack. On the other hand, you will lose a lot of time and 30% of resources every turn.
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Post by balthazar on Dec 2, 2023 7:51:43 GMT
I dont know if that was mentioned but fighting a subordinate clan of an enemy needs a check maybe? If you weaken the suzerain clan enough then they free themselves and become neutral with everyone. That happened several times and their breaking is acceptable and even expected. But I cant see the reasoning why they negotiate peace unilaterally? In order to capture or subordinate them I have to declare war again and since my troops are within enemy territory (about to capture their main castles even) they get a two turn morale shock unless I remove them first. I believe that auto neutrality needs to be checked, they should have asked for peace with me.
Another similar matter is about again making a clan subordinate. Why do we need to declare a war for that, maybe with a lower chance of success we should be able to ask/blackmail them to be their suzerain.
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Post by stoic on Dec 2, 2023 9:29:32 GMT
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Post by SolidLight on Dec 2, 2023 9:49:20 GMT
Out of curiosity I decided to make Shogun, Takeda and Nagao my allies and still was able to achieve domination. Pretty much sure that neither defeating Shogunate nor exterminating all clans with "ambitious" trait is a necessary condition to win.    Nah it's just conquer/ally/subdue all factions. Traits like Feisty, Chivalrous, Noble Lineage and Expansion Keener make it difficult to ally people. And you can't ever subdue someone Ambitious (though that doesn't matter because I don't think subduing someone is worth it). It's actually not that bad if they only have one of those traits, because you can usually work around it. For example, if someone is just feisty you can still intimidate them by being massive and have a way higher prestige, that lets you gift to them effectively. If someone has just noble lineage you can rely on Oichi + Karo. The trouble is when someone has two of those traits, which is why the Kawachi Hatakeyama is a real pain in the rear to deal with. Of course, you can't be using either of those methods to deal with enemy factions until later in the conquest, so you have to kill factions, and you're better off killing factions with those traits early on because their relation will be low. |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on Dec 2, 2023 11:47:07 GMT
IMO, Ambitious only means that you can conquer or ally with that clan while Feisty means that if you are significantly bigger and in range, that clan will agitate for hostilities. The Shogun status is obvious: -40 points for practically all upon declaration of war (Thanks, Nobunaga Oda. You invited me and our relations dropped by 40 points) Followed by -10 points per turn if you conquer the Ashikaga clan. Unsure if the penalty will apply to us if another clan (eg. Miyoshi) finishes the Ashikaga off. I'm still unsure what Noble Lineage, Trade-focused and the Shima Navy's love for money is about. Maybe the Shima Navy's love for money means that invitations are always 100%?
Subordinates thar overthrew their subordinates and making peace with you, if they weren't at war with you before submitting, makes sense. They were dragged into the suzerain's war, so undoing suzerainty means absolving themselves of that war. Besides, isn't the cost of submission three to four times that of any agreement? I do agree with the complications of allying vs forcing a weak clan to submit. Wakasa Takeda is usually on the backfoot after some time and allying with them doesn't end their war with others. Making them subordinates is beneficial while allying is a bit of a waste. |
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Post by SolidLight on Dec 2, 2023 12:23:58 GMT
So normally a factions attitute depends on one’s prestige. Factions that have a higher prestige than yours will be arrogant (with some exceptions) and factions that are lower will be high regard (-1), Scruple (-2) and respectful (-3). Don’t know if there’s more since I’ve never been formidable. Once they’re at scruple or lower their relation will increase if they’re in your diplomatic range because they’re scared, and it makes gifting much more effective. Respectful gets +25 per gift and arrogant gets +5.
Noble Lineage makes a faction stay at Arrogant permanently.
I think trade focused means that they’re willing to sign a passage/alliance at lower relations than normally. I’ve gotten Imagawa to sign a passage at like -10 relation with ~90% success odds (me being huge might have helped). Also some of the dialogue in the game implies that passages is kinda like a trade agreement or something.
Not entirely sure what Love for money does.
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Post by balthazar on Dec 2, 2023 13:29:23 GMT
Out of curiosity I decided to make Shogun, Takeda and Nagao my allies and still was able to achieve domination. Pretty much sure that neither defeating Shogunate nor exterminating all clans with "ambitious" trait is a necessary condition to win. Thats valuable info. They should somehow point out the current game status as S or A/B. Just because we are completionist we are wasting time on conquest since the rewards are a joke. |
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Post by balthazar on Dec 2, 2023 13:31:43 GMT
IMO, Ambitious only means that you can conquer or ally with that clan while Feisty means that if you are significantly bigger and in range, that clan will agitate for hostilities. The Shogun status is obvious: -40 points for practically all upon declaration of war (Thanks, Nobunaga Oda. You invited me and our relations dropped by 40 points) Followed by -10 points per turn if you conquer the Ashikaga clan. Unsure if the penalty will apply to us if another clan (eg. Miyoshi) finishes the Ashikaga off. I'm still unsure what Noble Lineage, Trade-focused and the Shima Navy's love for money is about. Maybe the Shima Navy's love for money means that invitations are always 100%?
Subordinates thar overthrew their subordinates and making peace with you, if they weren't at war with you before submitting, makes sense. They were dragged into the suzerain's war, so undoing suzerainty means absolving themselves of that war. Besides, isn't the cost of submission three to four times that of any agreement? I do agree with the complications of allying vs forcing a weak clan to submit. Wakasa Takeda is usually on the backfoot after some time and allying with them doesn't end their war with others. Making them subordinates is beneficial while allying is a bit of a waste. Idk I feel like they should have asked the opposing party for peace. Right now since it takes a few hours for a single run and we are not sure on the S ranking, wasting several turns is not cool. |
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Post by truhses on Dec 2, 2023 13:36:50 GMT
"Ambitiousness" and victory.
Twice I was not credited with victory in an alliance with everyone. In the first case, the strong Oda remained, in the other, Miyoshi subjugated five clans and destroyed the shogun. The destruction of these "ambitious" clans made it possible to gain victory. On the other hand, the preservation of the “ambitious” Nagao and the weak Miyoshi does not prevent victory.
Thus, the policy in relation to “ambitious” factions: Oda is always destroyed, Miyoshi is to destroy or support his enemies, preventing him from dominating his region, with Nagao an alliance.
Takeda usually dies by turn 50, I have never made an alliance with him and I don’t know if he will interfere with victory.
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Post by stoic on Dec 2, 2023 14:40:11 GMT
"Ambitiousness" and victory. Twice I was not credited with victory in an alliance with everyone. In the first case, the strong Oda remained, in the other, Miyoshi subjugated five clans and destroyed the shogun. The destruction of these "ambitious" clans made it possible to gain victory. On the other hand, the preservation of the “ambitious” Nagao and the weak Miyoshi does not prevent victory. Thus, the policy in relation to “ambitious” factions: Oda is always destroyed, Miyoshi is to destroy or support his enemies, preventing him from dominating his region, with Nagao an alliance. Takeda usually dies by turn 50, I have never made an alliance with him and I don’t know if he will interfere with victory. My assumption is that until our clan reaches Zenith we can't win no matter what. I haven't completed a single domination without reaching it.  pichost |
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Post by Monty :D on Dec 2, 2023 17:38:57 GMT
With about 20 S ranks under my belt, I wanted to share my general strategy. And to Stoic's point, I have been at least zenith for every s-rank. and my max turns was 104, and my minimum amount of castles directly owned was 16
battle of owari, 1. prioritize taking oda/takeda/miyoshi land. ally nagao + ashigaka(optional), vassalize everyone else while you are growing.
armed unification 2. Prioritize taking oda + chosokabe land. ally usegi and mori (allying chosokabe is ok aswell), vassalize everyone else (takeda + satake + hojo never get very big so they are easy to take out just autoing at the end with a vassal swarm.)
tips
1. Ignore enemy generals, they just respawn and waste your time. B line castles
2. I don't bother upgrading anything
3. I personally just pick all the mobility buffs to make b-lining castles easier.
4. If you need help from your vassals, set their strategic objective, if they are on tribute mode their troops will just starve.
5. It really is not worth fighting clans you can vassalize, instead of redirecting your forces to fight Ishiki clan or what ever, just stall with Ashigaru until you can demand vassalization from them.
while I am free to play, I do have several generals so this strat may not work if you are trying with only a couple generals.
tl:dr: ally nagao/usegi/mori, kill oda. VASSALIZE.
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Post by stoic on Dec 2, 2023 18:03:49 GMT
 Could have been a sub-50 run if I didn’t get absurdly bad luck with Nagao on diplomacy. That part is still something I need to improve on. Also, I’d wager Takeda is doable in 35 or so turns in the future. I didn’t play well on the diplomacy part there and got 44. Strangely enough but the second conquest is even easier to handle as 1* clan, though the map is apparently larger. Unfortunately, I didn't know that Chosokabe won't accept submission no matter what. But, at least, my allies didn't bombard me with unreasonable proposals to attack my other allies   |
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Post by Onadroig on Dec 2, 2023 18:10:45 GMT
Does anyone know if there are plans to include the effects of weather (rain) and day and night in the conquests?
Because otherwise some units like the Teppo covered against rain and the ninjas lose their logic a bit within the game.
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