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Post by Kaleg Nar on Oct 11, 2016 4:21:18 GMT
Personally, I'd go with earlier generals. Alexander the Great for example could've possibly solidified his empire had he live longer and therefore changed the course of Western history since Rome would've faced a united Hellenistic world as opposed to the fractured kingdoms. Attila the Hun, his death also weakened his people and had he lived longer, maybe the Byzantines would've fallen earlier. I don't know if this would be different. You mentioned the Diadochi (Alexander's successors) being fractured. While it's true that the Hellenistic empire would've held together better with Alexander forming a sort of Napoleonic Code law system to unify the unbelievable diverse groups all from Macedonia to Indius. I really doubt his heir (or heir's heir's heir at some point) would be able to maintain an unified empire against the Roman Republic. You have to realize the vast time span between Alexander's death 323 BC and the final defeat of the Hellenistics (Ptolemy's Egypt) in 30 BC. That's almost 300 years. I seriously doubt that the empire built by Alexander would've lasted that long. So if Alexander hadn't died in Babylon, he could have forged a stronger empire but it would have eventually broke down in civil war regardless. And possibly because of less frequent in-fighting among the Hellenistics, the looming civil war might end up in an even worse violent eruption. So ironically, the early fighting then slow settlement of 4 to 5 large power blocs might have presented a better chance of resisting the Romans than a Hellenistic empire recovering from the devastation of a late civil war.
However, Alexander had the guts of the Persian Empire to also use for solidifying the new empire if he had lived to gain an heir or at least clearly establish who would control his empire. The Persian Empire had already been around for a bit more than 200 years so it had the workings to be stable and the weak final emperors would've been replaced by a strong line (assuming the chosen successor wasn't a buffoon). If you keep the empire united, it also paves the way to more relations with India and perhaps you'd see Indian wares showing up in Thebes from trade, India being introduced to Hellenistic culture after conquest (less likely), or an awakened India facing a significant threat to its West and perhaps pushing forth its ideas on the West. |
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Post by Frederick the Great on Oct 11, 2016 6:13:33 GMT
He was involved in a plot to kill Hitler but was injured before he could join the conspirators and when the plot failed (simply because the breifcase carrying the bomb was moved a few feet by someone's foot) Hitler discovered Rommels involvement and forced him to commit suicide. Hilter suspected Rommel and feared him because of his popularity but there wasn't any actual proof that Rommel was involved, not even a little. There was never an actual indication that he was going to be involved or endorsed an assassination in the first place, far as I know. But try prove yourself innocent to a crazy poltical madman, good luck lol... that's why Rommel accepted Hilter's offer for a hero's funeral if he committed suicide. I thought one of the conspirators gave him up or somthing (I also know von Rundsteld was approached by them but he refused any involvement) but I could be wrong. I thought he accepted committing suicide because Hitler threatened to execute Rommel's family and Hitler, however evil and awful at Millitary strategy, was a great politican (as in skills not policies) and realised that the German people wouldn't be very happy if a public hero was executed by Hitler. |
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Post by Der Kaiserreich on Oct 11, 2016 13:29:38 GMT
Hilter suspected Rommel and feared him because of his popularity but there wasn't any actual proof that Rommel was involved, not even a little. There was never an actual indication that he was going to be involved or endorsed an assassination in the first place, far as I know. But try prove yourself innocent to a crazy poltical madman, good luck lol... that's why Rommel accepted Hilter's offer for a hero's funeral if he committed suicide. I thought one of the conspirators gave him up or somthing (I also know von Rundsteld was approached by them but he refused any involvement) but I could be wrong. I thought he accepted committing suicide because Hitler threatened to execute Rommel's family and Hitler, however evil and awful at Millitary strategy, was a great politican (as in skills not policies) and realised that the German people wouldn't be very happy if a public hero was executed by Hitler. Well, based what I read (from a reliable book about DDay), Rommel told Hitler the war was lost after the Allied victory at the beaches and Hitler refused to listen. Rommel realised that Hitler was a (insert insulting word here) and was part of the assasination atempt shortly after D-Day. Hitler, probably with a few other (stupid) reasons as well, executed him. He did tell his son that, in a quarter of an hour, the hospital will call, saying that he has brain tumor or something like that. Then he'll go there and die by poison. 15 minutes later the phone rang. |
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Oct 22, 2016 8:26:01 GMT
hmm. Im going to comment on this. I chose Brock, as Im canadian. and he would have helped win the war of course. Also, I think rommel is weird as the war was over, but hey, maybe he would be allowed to reform the german army. Yi sun sin does not count to me, as the war ended after he died right? I don't see Korea expanding, even with yi sun sin being a grunt. Heck, the korean army sucked, and he might not affect that.
Stonewall jackson is a good choice. If i remember correctly, the confederates were actually pretty bad at defending, in the west anyway. And carolus rex is good too, as he was OP, and opening a campaign in Norway when he died. How many people get a metal album, and multiple songs about them?
Anybody remember balbo? weakest Italian in WC3? He would have changed nothing (relatively), but he died early and from friendly fire. Finally, what if alexander the great attacked baby rome? Yeah, I know, pretty darn unlikely.
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Post by Quintus Fabius on Oct 22, 2016 23:04:32 GMT
Still no one lieks poor Wingate  |
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Oct 23, 2016 2:08:04 GMT
Still no one lieks poor Wingate Haha, maybe in life, but I thought full raider skill in WC3 was cool. And the traditional hat. Of course, really weak despite that. Anyway, just read how bad Korea was after the war, and in fact was seeking reconnecting with Japan so the Ming Chinese garrison would leave Korea. In such a devastated country, what would the survival of Yi-sun sin do? He WAS popular While freshly dead to be fair. And the Nelson of the east would escape the fate of the western one. Also as another point for Brock, he had promised to help the native Americans he talked into fighting with their dream of a independent homeland. Even with him alive you can't trust contemporary white governments, but we are talking what if. Everyone knows the natives lost the war of 1812. Wouldn't it be big if he changed that a little? the corporal who lived too long was Hitler. I wrote a report once about how he lost the war. Don't know how Germany would have handled his death, but maybe it would have allowed the generals to do their jobs. |
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Post by Frederick the Great on Oct 29, 2016 2:58:48 GMT
hmm. Im going to comment on this. I chose Brock, as Im canadian. and he would have helped win the war of course. Also, I think rommel is weird as the war was over, but hey, maybe he would be allowed to reform the german army. Yi sun sin does not count to me, as the war ended after he died right? I don't see Korea expanding, even with yi sun sin being a grunt. Heck, the korean army sucked, and he might not affect that. Stonewall jackson is a good choice. If i remember correctly, the confederates were actually pretty bad at defending, in the west anyway. And carolus rex is good too, as he was OP, and opening a campaign in Norway when he died. How many people get a metal album, and multiple songs about them? Anybody remember balbo? weakest Italian in WC3? He would have changed nothing (relatively), but he died early and from friendly fire. Finally, what if alexander the great attacked baby rome? Yeah, I know, pretty darn unlikely. The war wasn't over when Rommel died. |
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Oct 29, 2016 21:24:04 GMT
What I meant was, it was very close to the end, as in what could he have done? Maybe more than i give credit for, but it was mostly done.
The western allies had reached the netherlands and liberated most of france, while the soviets had invaded hungary and Prussia (depending on who you ask german land) all that was left was germany-austria, czech lands, and the balkans (in the same month the allies took athens)
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Post by Stonewall Jackson on Oct 29, 2016 22:16:26 GMT
What I meant was, it was very close to the end, as in what could he have done? Maybe more than i give credit for, but it was mostly done. The western allies had reached the netherlands and liberated most of france, while the soviets had invaded hungary and Prussia (depending on who you ask german land) all that was left was germany-austria, czech lands, and the balkans (in the same month the allies took athens) The only thing Rommel could have done was prolong the inevitable |
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Oct 30, 2016 0:26:54 GMT
What I meant was, it was very close to the end, as in what could he have done? Maybe more than i give credit for, but it was mostly done. The western allies had reached the netherlands and liberated most of france, while the soviets had invaded hungary and Prussia (depending on who you ask german land) all that was left was germany-austria, czech lands, and the balkans (in the same month the allies took athens) The only thing Rommel could have done was prolong the inevitable Exactly my thought on the subject. Some like to argue that such and such lost cause could never win, but it was certainly over by the time Rommel died. The biggest possibility I suppose, was if, beloved as he was, he received some position or influence in post-war europe. But there is no guarantee on that. |
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Post by Stonewall Jackson on Oct 30, 2016 2:56:39 GMT
The only thing Rommel could have done was prolong the inevitable Exactly my thought on the subject. Some like to argue that such and such lost cause could never win, but it was certainly over by the time Rommel died. The biggest possibility I suppose, was if, beloved as he was, he received some position or influence in post-war europe. But there is no guarantee on that. Correct. And things may have turned out completely different if he would have just gotten the needed supplies in his North Africa conquest... |
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Post by Frederick the Great on Oct 30, 2016 3:46:27 GMT
What I meant was, it was very close to the end, as in what could he have done? Maybe more than i give credit for, but it was mostly done. The western allies had reached the netherlands and liberated most of france, while the soviets had invaded hungary and Prussia (depending on who you ask german land) all that was left was germany-austria, czech lands, and the balkans (in the same month the allies took athens) Ah yes in that case your right. There was little he or anyone could do at that point, yes. If Hitler had listened (which thank god he didn't) to generals like Rommel and Manstien then Nazi Germany may have won or at least survived the war. |
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Post by Yi Sun Sin on Oct 30, 2016 22:31:26 GMT
hmm. Im going to comment on this. I chose Brock, as Im canadian. and he would have helped win the war of course. Also, I think rommel is weird as the war was over, but hey, maybe he would be allowed to reform the german army. Yi sun sin does not count to me, as the war ended after he died right? I don't see Korea expanding, even with yi sun sin being a grunt. Heck, the korean army sucked, and he might not affect that. Expect a debunk soon. |
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Oct 31, 2016 1:11:04 GMT
hmm. I take it you, the naval commander of the three provinces, disagree with my dismissal of the Korean states ability to expand in the same dead generation of Yi sun sin. unless you have other interests.
Is he really in EW5? too bad cleopatra is not in EW4 maybe he could be compared to Nelson, like historians do. there appears to be maria and those other gens.
Maybe I should just commit seppuku so I am not completely annihilated by your amazing counter-stroke. I wait, in fear.
Though I will say that if ignoring global impacts outside Korea, as far as I know he could make a difference trading on his glory. However in his history his political opponents had him tortured and demoted to foot soldier twice, so I don't know how far his admittedly much greater achievement would take him.
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Post by Laurent de Gouvion on Oct 31, 2016 1:37:33 GMT
What I meant was, it was very close to the end, as in what could he have done? Maybe more than i give credit for, but it was mostly done. The western allies had reached the netherlands and liberated most of france, while the soviets had invaded hungary and Prussia (depending on who you ask german land) all that was left was germany-austria, czech lands, and the balkans (in the same month the allies took athens) Ah yes in that case your right. There was little he or anyone could do at that point, yes. If Hitler had listened (which thank god he didn't) to generals like Rommel and Manstien then Nazi Germany may have won or at least survived the war. Had Rommel suceeded in North Africa, he would have to face the British in the Middle East. Unless he could charm the local population into rebellion, it'd be near impossible. The British had 100,000 troops in Mandatory Palestine at its peak, and I suspect the apprpach of the Wehrmacht could force a treaty between the British and various organizations. Which means it'd be a tough fight for Rommel, and he can't bypass Mandatory Palestine, or the 100,000 troops there might take the Suez Canal and outflank Rommel. Also, Stalin offered a treaty in late 1941, technically Brest-Litovsk 2.0. No doubt the generals would have accepted such treaty, at least to rush winter supplies and settle the frontage. |
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