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Post by Jean Lannes on Oct 2, 2015 3:14:13 GMT
I think Japan really screwed over Germany. If they didn't attack Pearl Harbor and get the USA involved, Germany might have been successful. Operation Barbarossa was lost before it even started. Germany should have invaded the Middle East to get more oil and advance into India with Japan. From there on Germany would give the Japanese oil in exchange for maybe attacking the SU or anything similar. Germany might have won the SU invasion if they attacked from the Middle East (take Stalingrad) and the South part would then combine with the Middle part to take Moscow. Also Hitler would have needed to listen to his generals esp. von Manstein. |
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Post by Haelicon on Oct 2, 2015 3:43:22 GMT
I think Japan really screwed over Germany. If they didn't attack Pearl Harbor and get the USA involved, Germany might have been successful. Operation Barbarossa was lost before it even started. Germany should have invaded the Middle East to get more oil and advance into India with Japan. From there on Germany would give the Japanese oil in exchange for maybe attacking the SU or anything similar. Germany might have won the SU invasion if they attacked from the Middle East (take Stalingrad) and the South part would then combine with the Middle part to take Moscow. Also Hitler would have needed to listen to his generals esp. von Manstein. Attacking Middle East mean more delays for Barbarossa, maybe even for 1 year. That means more preparation and more armaments for Soviet Union. And the European theatre will get even less divisions than real life. But I agree for the much earlier drive to Stalingrad and Baku could get Germany an early Strategic victory. Germany could win if Great Britain surrender (that means no base of attack to France, or any means of second theatre in Europe) and Japan invades Soviet Union to force the Eastern Army to stuck in Siberia. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 4:34:54 GMT
Germany had to invade Russia in late 1940 but conflicts in Greece regarding the Italians caused a massive delay, If hitter invaded earlier he would've taken Moscow in a month or two and put Russia on her knees, Italy lost the war for Germany
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Post by Mountbatten on Oct 2, 2015 13:52:48 GMT
Germany made many mistakes it seems.
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Post by Suvorov on Oct 2, 2015 14:57:33 GMT
So, how did it start? Why did the Allies get their asses kicked so badly? How come the Allies could win WW2 after their major losses? My take on this: *Poland refused ceding the danzing (sp) region,so Germany attacked,France and Britain had no choice but to declare war on Germany since they were bound by a defense treaty with Poland. *They simply were not prepared for war as they didn't think Hitler would push it as far as he did. Having a prepared strong military is hugely expensive for any country,they didnt think they needed to spend the ressources. *In the end it came down to: > man power,Germany simply did not have enough population for a global war,the Russians on the other hand did. >Ressources:again while the germans had excellent industrial capacity and war technology they didn't actually have enough raw material to produce the huge quantity of tanks/aircrafts that was needed,fuel was often a problem too. Excellent Bottlesofbeer, however it was also the fault of France and Brittain not to make an alliance while they got the chance and as a resultaten Germany made a pact with the USSR |
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Post by kanue on Oct 2, 2015 16:15:20 GMT
Did the Nazi need to attack USSR at all? Or would the USSR certainly enter the war nonetheless?
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Post by Haelicon on Oct 2, 2015 16:24:23 GMT
Did the Nazi need to attack USSR at all? Or would the USSR certainly enter the war nonetheless? Well, Soviet Union did not expect Germany to attack in 1941. Even Stalin was shocked and refused to talk with his generals a full week (or month?). But Stalin has his own agenda in Europe, and he planned to expand the Soviet Union to German influenced states, even to the Western Allied states. This, coupled with Stalin determination and Hitler aggresive policy and racial discrimination (even before 1941, Germany already have anti-communist propaganda), also Churchill desperately rallies nations to fight against Nazi Germany, will breed war. So war with Soviet Union is inevitable |
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Post by Moreau on Oct 2, 2015 21:38:25 GMT
What if hitler never ordered a halt in the battle of dunkirk no matter of the troops needed resupply
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Post by Moreau on Oct 2, 2015 21:40:33 GMT
Also how would communism work for the countries in Africa and South america and most of the non wealthy nations?
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Post by bottlesofbeer on Oct 2, 2015 22:04:04 GMT
Did the Nazi need to attack USSR at all? Or would the USSR certainly enter the war nonetheless? Communism and nazi ideology were bound to clash sooner or later,both Hitler and Stalin knew there was going to be war between them eventually. Stalin also wanted more European territory and he probably calculated that Axis would hammer the western allies and he could just sit and wait untill both factions were weak and then enter the war and grab land from everyone. The Germans imo had to attack before the USSR got too strong and turned on them.It was just a matter of who could back stab the other first.They almost succeeded had it not been for an extremely cold winter that gave the Russians the break they desperately needed. |
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Post by Mountbatten on Oct 2, 2015 22:20:16 GMT
The freezing temperatures seem to be Russia's strength. It's how they defeated Napoleon as well.
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Post by General William T. Sherman on Oct 2, 2015 23:41:15 GMT
One thing it seems you guys haven't mentioned about Germany's failure in Russia was oil. Of course, Japan had few oil supplies, we all know that. But Germany only had around 1/2 of their required oil supply inside their own borders by 1941. The rest they got from the SU, as well as a little bit from their Balkan allies in Romania and Hungary. So the reason they kind of needed to attack the SU was so that they could control the oil supply and not have it at risk of being taken away from them. So the Germans expected to quickly win over Russia and take control of the oil. Of course, Hitler decided to order that his generals go for Kiev instead of Moscow and thus they didn't win as early as expected. That is why the Germans then decided to for the Caucasus and Stalingrad so they could gain control of oil. German plans also included a plan to take Baku in Azerbaijan after Stalingrad, a huge oil producing city. Of course, Stalingrad resulted in Soviet victory and was one of, if not the most, important battles of the war.
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Post by kanue on Oct 3, 2015 5:59:21 GMT
While the war with USSR was inevitable but I still doubt if Germany needed to make the war on two fronts. Should not they focus their resources to defeat the western allies first?
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Post by Jean Lannes on Oct 3, 2015 6:06:03 GMT
What if hitler never ordered a halt in the battle of dunkirk no matter of the troops needed resupply Churchill (the new PM) might have been dismissed and someone ready to sign a treaty might have taken his spot thus putting the UK out of the war. |
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Post by Haelicon on Oct 3, 2015 6:08:07 GMT
While the war with USSR was inevitable but I still doubt if Germany needed to make the war on two fronts. Should not they focus their resources to defeat the western allies first? They simply don't have time. Eventually Soviet Union will grow stronger than Germany. They can't wait until Britain surrender, as it took so much time. So rather than knock Britain out of war first. They took the second option, knock Soviet first rather than got knocked later. Remember Hitler estimated the war only lasts for a month, saying "All we need to do is kick the door, and the rotten structure will collapse" |
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