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Post by stoic on Oct 21, 2017 21:39:06 GMT
You either don't know what You are talking about or simply forgot, alternatively never compared tech upgrades. Tank attack upgrades up to Pacific is 12 points. Tanks attack upgrades maxed - 48 points (36!! additional points) Now please go and check the attack of Your heavytank in Soviets 1939. As soon as You look at the screen You will understand how increadibly weaker same heavy tank will be for the player with only Pacific upgrades. For sure You can one-shot many generals. But mainly it's because of this basic attack buff due to techs. In comparison to techs influence plain figting is almost nothing for the player with no techs. Do you have Manstein? In that case you can compare damage output by him (he has Plain fighting) and Guderian... |
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Post by andrei on Oct 21, 2017 21:41:55 GMT
You either don't know what You are talking about or simply forgot, alternatively never compared tech upgrades. Tank attack upgrades up to Pacific is 12 points. Tanks attack upgrades maxed - 48 points (36!! additional points) Now please go and check the attack of Your heavytank in Soviets 1939. As soon as You look at the screen You will understand how increadibly weaker same heavy tank will be for the player with only Pacific upgrades. For sure You can one-shot many generals. But mainly it's because of this basic attack buff due to techs. In comparison to techs influence plain figting is almost nothing for the player with no techs. Do you have Manstein? In that case you can compare damage output by him (he has Plain fighting) and Guderian... I have Manstein. That's why I say that  I tried both of them as main ram-atacker. Difference is marginal when fighting strong enemies. That's why I've given Rumor and use Guderian as a ram. |
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 21:45:04 GMT
Also, I am going to respectfully ask that you stop with the comments suggesting I don’t know what I’m talking about. It is insulting and dismissive. I’ve made a lot more progress in this game than anyone else posting on here, and I cleared all World War II hard modes on iOS before Cold War was released meaning I could not upgrade my tech beyond the same level the original poster said his tech is at. Maxed damage abilities for land generals will help you clear scenarios and conquests faster than Rumor even with tech at pre Cold War levels.
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 21:48:26 GMT
You either don't know what You are talking about or simply forgot, alternatively never compared tech upgrades. Tank attack upgrades up to Pacific is 12 points. Tanks attack upgrades maxed - 48 points (36!! additional points) Now please go and check the attack of Your heavytank in Soviets 1939. As soon as You look at the screen You will understand how increadibly weaker same heavy tank will be for the player with only Pacific upgrades. For sure You can one-shot many generals. But mainly it's because of this basic attack buff due to techs. In comparison to techs influence plain figting is almost nothing for the player with no techs. Do you have Manstein? In that case you can compare damage output by him (he has Plain fighting) and Guderian... Except Guderian can also take Explosives, which further boosts damage. You’d have to have Manstein below 50 percent somhe is getting Tide of Iron to really make a fair comparison, and it still isn’t perfect. |
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 21:56:58 GMT
Let’s again point out that the damage from Plain Fighting with medal is 37 points, which is MORE than the tech difference you cited between Pacific and Maximum tech (36 points). You are giving up MORE damage by not taking Plain Fighting with Guderian than you would be by sacrificing all of those tech upgrades.
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Post by andrei on Oct 21, 2017 22:01:58 GMT
You either don't know what You are talking about or simply forgot, alternatively never compared tech upgrades. Tank attack upgrades up to Pacific is 12 points. Tanks attack upgrades maxed - 48 points (36!! additional points) Now please go and check the attack of Your heavytank in Soviets 1939. As soon as You look at the screen You will understand how increadibly weaker same heavy tank will be for the player with only Pacific upgrades. For sure You can one-shot many generals. But mainly it's because of this basic attack buff due to techs. In comparison to techs influence plain figting is almost nothing for the player with no techs. The tech difference DOES NOT MATTER. The 37 damage from Plain Fighting plus medal is MORE than the 30 damage you get from a six star tank ability compared to zero stars. The damage sacrifice you make by foregoing Plain Fighting and the medal is more than if you used a tank general with no tank skill versus one with six stars of tank skill. Whether the bonus damage from tech is zero, 10 or 100, that 37 points from Plain Fighting does not change. It arguably means even more with lower tech because of how proportional it is. First of all I am not losing medal bonus as I use it with another 6* general - Manstein. So it is about 25 points not about 37. Second. This skill is situational. Quite important. You need to use plains to attack. Third. As I said earlier in this discussion several times. I know output is important. But game progress anticipates Your enemies are too strong for You to a certain progress point. You are weaker than some enemies. Additional plain fighting damage is good but can't influence like Rumor. Rumor can convert deadly enemy into a sitting duck. In several campaign missions my generals were almost dead - few HP points left - when almost full health enemy general was finally disable. And I killed him with no retaliation. It provided my further progress. |
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 22:20:05 GMT
The tech difference DOES NOT MATTER. The 37 damage from Plain Fighting plus medal is MORE than the 30 damage you get from a six star tank ability compared to zero stars. The damage sacrifice you make by foregoing Plain Fighting and the medal is more than if you used a tank general with no tank skill versus one with six stars of tank skill. Whether the bonus damage from tech is zero, 10 or 100, that 37 points from Plain Fighting does not change. It arguably means even more with lower tech because of how proportional it is. First of all I am not losing medal bonus as I use it with another 6* general - Manstein. So it is about 25 points not about 37. Second. This skill is situational. Quite important. You need to use plains to attack. Third. As I said earlier in this discussion several times. I know output is important. But game progress anticipates Your enemies are too strong for You to a certain progress point. You are weaker than some enemies. Additional plain fighting damage is good but can't influence like Rumor. Rumor can convert deadly enemy into a sitting duck. In several campaign missions my generals were almost dead - few HP points left - when almost full health enemy general was finally disable. And I killed him with no retaliation. It provided my further progress. Level 5 Plain Fighting is plus 25 damage. The medal for it further boosts your damage to 37 (50 percent of 25 = 12; 25 + 12 = 37). I can screenshot it for you if you like. Hover over the medal boosted skill and it will show 37 points. Plains can be found on virtually every single turn. They are present near every city and even in deserts. Simple use of positioning will allow you to use Plain Fighting on virtually every turn. Rumor is the ability that is situational. It only helps defeat tough generals, usually in stacked tanks. I managed to three star every hard mode WWII scenario with Pacific-level tech in an average of 8-10 turns less than the requirement. You aren’t doing that with Rumor. You keep talking about enemies being stronger than you. Go back and read the OP. He said he has Guderian and Konev maxed out. There is no general tougher than maxed out Guderian and Konev. |
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Post by stoic on Oct 21, 2017 22:24:07 GMT
Do you have Manstein? In that case you can compare damage output by him (he has Plain fighting) and Guderian... Except Guderian can also take Explosives, which further boosts damage. You’d have to have Manstein below 50 percent somhe is getting Tide of Iron to really make a fair comparison, and it still isn’t perfect. But it is possible to compare damage to field troops, isn't it? The difference between Tide of Iron and Explosives is nonexistent then (let's presume that the health is full). It would be interesting to see the figures... |
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Post by andrei on Oct 21, 2017 22:25:23 GMT
Let’s again point out that the damage from Plain Fighting with medal is 37 points, which is MORE than the tech difference you cited between Pacific and Maximum tech (36 points). You are giving up MORE damage by not taking Plain Fighting with Guderian than you would be by sacrificing all of those tech upgrades. Looks like these 25 points made Your day many times... Didn't want to insult You. Sorry, that wasn't my intention. Could You please explain me why are You talking about pure Plain figting? What is damage? Sum - Unit attack which is hugely influenced by techs. That's why I asked You to check the attack of the unit in 1939 conquest to comparethe difference. - Quantity of stars - Assault skill wich is influenced by medal - Terrain boosting skill which is situational All of it is influenced by leader skill. Formula is unknown. However it makes main input as we see final output is several hundred damage points... So, I know I lose those 25 points (plains only) which is really marginal and much more when leader triggers, but it can't save me in situations when enemy is much stronger. When my techs are maxed and enemies are no match I'll switch to one of the terrain bonus for record output. But now it is simply useless. |
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Post by stoic on Oct 21, 2017 22:30:18 GMT
And theoretically (and practically 😆) both of you can demonstrate these figures. Any theoretical argument is more persuasive if supported by screenshots 😊😊😊
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Post by andrei on Oct 21, 2017 22:38:11 GMT
And theoretically (and practically 😆) both of you can demonstrate these figures. Any theoretical argument is more persuasive if supported by screenshots 😊😊😊 Screenshots will only show output. Our argue is about what are the factors influence it and whether it worth... |
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 22:40:04 GMT
Let’s again point out that the damage from Plain Fighting with medal is 37 points, which is MORE than the tech difference you cited between Pacific and Maximum tech (36 points). You are giving up MORE damage by not taking Plain Fighting with Guderian than you would be by sacrificing all of those tech upgrades. Looks like these 25 points made Your day many times... Didn't want to insult You. Sorry, that wasn't my intention. Could You please explain me why are You talking about pure Plain figting? What is damage? Sum - Unit attack which is hugely influenced by techs. That's why I asked You to check the attack of the unit in 1939 conquest to comparethe difference. - Quantity of stars - Assault skill wich is influenced by medal - Terrain boosting skill which is situational All of it is influenced by leader skill. Formula is unknown. However it makes main input as we see final output is several hundred damage points... So, I know I lose those 25 points (plains only) which is really marginal and much more when leader triggers, but it can't save me in situations when enemy is much stronger. When my techs are maxed and enemies are no match I'll switch to one of the terrain bonus for record output. But now it is simply useless. You keep talking about it saving you. This post wasn’t about you. The OP has maxed out Guderian and Konev. If you need to be saved by Rumor while using maxed out Guderian and Konev at the tech level the OP said he has (Pacific level), you are seriously doing something wrong. The enemy will NEVER be “much stronger” thank maxed out Guderian and Konev. They are literally the strongest generals in the game. It also is not 25 points. It is 37 points. You can use medals for Panzer Leader, Armored Assault and Plain Fighting on the same General. That means maxed out Guderian gets 37 points of damage on plains, which are available on almost every turn in every scenario and conquest. If you can’t find Plains to get that bonus damage, you stink at positioning. They are everywhere. It is not marginal. I will ask you one more time: Do you realize that the bonus damage you get from six stars of tank skill compared to zero stars is 30 points? The damage difference between my maxed out Guderian with Plain Fighting with medal and a maxed out Guderian with Rumor is MORE than the difference between a general with zero tank stars and one with six tank stars. How can you keep saying this is marginal? It’s massive, particularly when you factor in the damage boosts from other abilities that multiply that 37 points of damage. |
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 22:43:11 GMT
And theoretically (and practically 😆) both of you can demonstrate these figures. Any theoretical argument is more persuasive if supported by screenshots 😊😊😊 Any screenshots I post will be dismissed because I have max tech and can’t turn that off. But simple math is all that is necessary here. The skill says exactly how much bonus damage it provides. |
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Post by stoic on Oct 21, 2017 22:43:48 GMT
And theoretically (and practically 😆) both of you can demonstrate these figures. Any theoretical argument is more persuasive if supported by screenshots 😊😊😊 Screenshots will only show output. Our argue is about what are the factors influence it and whether it worth... But if we can see output with and without Panzer leader triggered, possibly we can make conclusion whether or not Plain fighting or other terrain bonuses play a significant part in Panzer leader damage... |
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Post by stoic on Oct 21, 2017 22:48:25 GMT
And theoretically (and practically 😆) both of you can demonstrate these figures. Any theoretical argument is more persuasive if supported by screenshots 😊😊😊 Any screenshots I post will be dismissed because I have max tech and can’t turn that off. But simple math is all that is necessary here. The skill says exactly how much bonus damage it provides. I mean that if you will give Rumor to YUOR Guderian and compare it to YOUR Manstein, this comparison will be fair. Thech tree doesn't matter, I think, in that case... |
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