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Post by andrei on Oct 21, 2017 19:38:25 GMT
I decided not to repeat my experience with EW5 and purchased medals to buy generals I wanted and to upgrade critical skills. Unfortunately my time is much more expensive Anyway, in case somebody is interested. I purchased Donitz (maxed Rumor), Nagumo (maxed Rumor), Yamamoto (maxed Rumor) plus maxed Rumor for Konev and Guderian. And I can say that it is enough for completing campaigns for 3 gold stars including hard mode. Haven't started hard mode for Cold War campaign though. Moreover progressed without any problems up to Battle of Philippines in Domination mode. Haven't tried it yet. My techs are at Pacific maxed for tanks and navy, plus I upgraded infantry focusing the reduction of damage from mines up to 90% in order to pass Exercise in Petropavlovsk without taking Replacement skill for my infantry general. So the verdict: Rumor plus flanking is fast and easy progress in WC4. You just flank and attack the enemy general with Konev and Guderian and kill disabled enemy afterwards doesn't matter how powerful he is... Same for navy. OP skill.
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 20:12:53 GMT
I decided not to repeat my experience with EW5 and purchased medals to buy generals I wanted and to upgrade critical skills. Unfortunately my time is much more expensive Anyway, in case somebody is interested. I purchased Donitz (maxed Rumor), Nagumo (maxed Rumor), Yamamoto (maxed Rumor) plus maxed Rumor for Konev and Guderian. And I can say that it is enough for completing campaigns for 3 gold stars including hard mode. Haven't started hard mode for Cold War campaign though. Moreover progressed without any problems up to Battle of Philippines in Domination mode. Haven't tried it yet. My techs are at Pacific maxed for tanks and navy, plus I upgraded infantry focusing the reduction of damage from mines up to 90% in order to pass Exercise in Petropavlovsk without taking Replacement skill for my infantry general. So the verdict: Rumor plus flanking is fast and easy progress in WC4. You just flank and attack the enemy general with Konev and Guderian and kill disabled enemy afterwards doesn't matter how powerful he is... Same for navy. OP skill. You can actually move faster with maxed out abilities if you take damage abilities for Guderian and Konev instead of Rumor, particularly if you boost with medals. They do so much damage that you rarely get any benefit from Rumor. They kill everything in one turn. Rumor is the most critical skill for naval generals.
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Post by andrei on Oct 21, 2017 20:24:48 GMT
I decided not to repeat my experience with EW5 and purchased medals to buy generals I wanted and to upgrade critical skills. Unfortunately my time is much more expensive Anyway, in case somebody is interested. I purchased Donitz (maxed Rumor), Nagumo (maxed Rumor), Yamamoto (maxed Rumor) plus maxed Rumor for Konev and Guderian. And I can say that it is enough for completing campaigns for 3 gold stars including hard mode. Haven't started hard mode for Cold War campaign though. Moreover progressed without any problems up to Battle of Philippines in Domination mode. Haven't tried it yet. My techs are at Pacific maxed for tanks and navy, plus I upgraded infantry focusing the reduction of damage from mines up to 90% in order to pass Exercise in Petropavlovsk without taking Replacement skill for my infantry general. So the verdict: Rumor plus flanking is fast and easy progress in WC4. You just flank and attack the enemy general with Konev and Guderian and kill disabled enemy afterwards doesn't matter how powerful he is... Same for navy. OP skill. You can actually move faster with maxed out abilities if you take damage abilities for Guderian and Konev instead of Rumor, particularly if you boost with medals. They do so much damage that you rarely get any benefit from Rumor. They kill everything in one turn. Rumor is the most critical skill for naval generals. You are wrong. While receiving medals for campaigns/domination/achievements I used it to upgrade damage skills. Guderian is maxed as well as Konev. Guderian has 3 tank medals. I am not even near one-shooting enemy stacked units, not to mention enemy generals. For that techs are necessary as I see it.
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 20:29:52 GMT
You can actually move faster with maxed out abilities if you take damage abilities for Guderian and Konev instead of Rumor, particularly if you boost with medals. They do so much damage that you rarely get any benefit from Rumor. They kill everything in one turn. Rumor is the most critical skill for naval generals. You are wrong. While receiving medals for campaigns/domination/achievements I used it to upgrade damage skills. Guderian is maxed as well as Konev. I am not even near one-shooting enemy stacked units, not to mention enemy generals. For that techs are necessary as I see it. I’d love to know what you are attacking that can take 200-plus damage from Konev and 300-plus from Guderian in one turn, more if you can double hit with Guderian by destroying city fortifications. I was killing most everything in one turn by pairing them up long before I maxed out tech. You aren’t fighting a bunch of stacked heavy tanks very often. Guderian can one-shot any unstacked artillery unit by himself, along with infantry in stacks of 2 or 3, sometimes 4 if you get Panzer Leader to trigger. Stacked tanks can take one shot, but rarely a hit from both Konev and Guderian in the same turn.
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Post by andrei on Oct 21, 2017 20:36:40 GMT
Yoau are wrong. While receiving medals for campaigns/domination/achievements I used it to upgrade damage skills. Guderian is maxed as well as Konev. I am not even near one-shooting enemy stacked units, not to mention enemy generals. For that techs are necessary as I see it. I’d love to know what you are attacking that can take 200-plus damage from Konev and 300-plus from Guderian in one turn, more if you can double hit with Guderian by destroying city fortifications. I was mostly killing everything by pairing them up long before I maxed out tech. No offense but You are not reading what I say. I was mentioning stacked units. 3 stacked medium tank has around 450 hp for example. 3 stacked artillery also can'tbe one-shot. Weaker units can be one-shoted, true. But weaker units can be one-shoted with Rumor general same way as with non-rumor. So, what's the difference?
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 20:39:16 GMT
I’d love to know what you are attacking that can take 200-plus damage from Konev and 300-plus from Guderian in one turn, more if you can double hit with Guderian by destroying city fortifications. I was mostly killing everything by pairing them up long before I maxed out tech. No offense but You are not reading what I say. I was mentioning stacked units. 3 stacked medium tank has around 450 hp for example. 3 stacked artillery also can'tbe one-shot. Weaker units can be one-shoted, true. But weaker units can be one-shoted with Rumor general same way as with non-rumor. So, what's the difference? The difference is a lot more one-shots. If you take an additional damage skill, boost it with a medal and then get bonuses from percentage abilities and leader skills, it can mean the difference between one-shotting a unit or not.
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 20:44:38 GMT
Konev with maxed damage abilities and medals will do at least 200 damage 60 percent of the time. Guderian is closer to 300. Well over the 450 damage you mention in the stacked tank example. Any supporting units you bring along can whittle stacked units down to ensure one-turn kills. You really just aren’t fighting stacked tanks that often. In conquests, none of the staring mechanized units are stacked, and the AI rarely builds them.
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Post by andrei on Oct 21, 2017 20:47:55 GMT
No offense but You are not reading what I say. I was mentioning stacked units. 3 stacked medium tank has around 450 hp for example. 3 stacked artillery also can'tbe one-shot. Weaker units can be one-shoted, true. But weaker units can be one-shoted with Rumor general same way as with non-rumor. So, what's the difference? The difference is a lot more one-shots. If you take an additional damage skill, boost it with a medal and then get bonuses from percentage abilities and leader skills, it can mean the difference between one-shotting a unit or not. Ok, give me an explanation why: 1) My maxed Guderian with 3 tank medals can't hit 450 hp. I assume it's because of Rumor taken instead of Plain fighting. Am I right? Is it Your version? 2) My Guderian sometimes can't shoot once again after kill. What is the version for this case? 3) Weaker units can easily be killed by team. Strong generals are necessary to kill strong enemy generals. Here Rumor is much more valuable imo. Are You one-shooting enemy generals?
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Post by andrei on Oct 21, 2017 21:00:46 GMT
Konev with maxed damage abilities and medals will do at least 200 damage 60 percent of the time. Guderian is closer to 300. Well over the 450 damage you mention in the stacked tank example. Any supporting units you bring along can whittle stacked units down to ensure one-turn kills. You really just aren’t fighting stacked tanks that often. In conquests, none of the staring mechanized units are stacked, and the AI rarely builds them. Aaaahh. The topic is not about higher output! I am not stupid and fully understand that Plain fighting is a damage boosting skill while Rumor is tactical one. I do not need higher output. With present tech level my team is capable to handle any ordinary unit without any problems. However it is not for sure while facing stronger enemy generals. This additional output is marginal when fighting such enemies in campaigns for instance.
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 21:09:31 GMT
The difference is a lot more one-shots. If you take an additional damage skill, boost it with a medal and then get bonuses from percentage abilities and leader skills, it can mean the difference between one-shotting a unit or not. Ok, give me an explanation why: 1) My maxed Guderian with 3 tank medals can't hit 450 hp. I assume it's because of Rumor taken instead of Plain fighting. Am I right? Is it Your version? 2) My Guderian sometimes can't shoot once again after kill. What is the version for this case? 3) Weaker units can easily be killed by team. Strong generals are necessary to kill strong enemy generals. Here Rumor is much more valuable imo. Are You one-shooting enemy generals? Yes, often I am one-shotting enemy generals. Go check out the 1939 27-turn Soviet conquest I just posted in the world record thread. There are tons of screenshots. I got a one-shot kill with Manstein on Leeb and a couple of other artillery generals. I got one-shots on several infantry generals, all with full health. I even one-shot Germany’s Manstein and Franco because the reality is you are not fighting every enemy general at full health. So maybe Rumor helps you on a couple of full health enemy tank generals early. But for every other turn, you move faster with the extra damage giving you extra assault hits and taking out additional units. Now, you don’t get 100 percent Assault until your tech is upgraded. But Rumor still isn’t helping when you are fighting vanilla units with no general attached. At most, a stacked tank takes two turns to kill. Let’s do the math. Max Plain Figting with Medal is 36 additional base damage. It is way more than that if you get a Panzer Leader hit, plus the bonus damage you might get from Armored Assault with medal (48 percent of 36 is 17) or Explosives if you are attacking a city. At a minimum, in those two turns you are giving up 72 damage. From a practical perspective it’s well over 100 when you apply all the bonuses. Combine that over the course of a dozen or more turns, and yeah, Plain Fighting would give you way more damage while you get virtually no benefit from Rumor. Because, once again very few of the units you face have the HP to survive for two turns, and almost none are going to last more than two turns. You can take a “tactical skill” that may help you three or four turns max, or a damage skill that will shave several turns off your victory time.
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Post by andrei on Oct 21, 2017 21:16:42 GMT
And again. You are not reading what I say. You are giving Your examples with max techs. I am talking about game progress - campaigns and domination. Once again: game progress - means techs are not MAXED. No 100% additional shot after kill. And enemy generals are much much stronger in comparison to those in conquests.
Conquest with maxed techs is bad example. Generals are weak there. Btw I also can one-shot some of them in conquests. So, could You please explain what is the difference between Your one-shot and my?
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 21:23:19 GMT
Konev with maxed damage abilities and medals will do at least 200 damage 60 percent of the time. Guderian is closer to 300. Well over the 450 damage you mention in the stacked tank example. Any supporting units you bring along can whittle stacked units down to ensure one-turn kills. You really just aren’t fighting stacked tanks that often. In conquests, none of the staring mechanized units are stacked, and the AI rarely builds them. Aaaahh. The topic is not about higher output! I am not stupid and fully understand that Plain fighting is a damage boosting skill while Rumor is tactical one. I do not need higher output. With present tech level my team is capable to handle any ordinary unit without any problems. However it is not for sure while facing stronger enemy generals. This additional output is marginal when fighting such enemies in campaigns for instance. This game is ultimately about completing objectives as quickly as possible. Early on, Rumor is a helpful skill because you don’t have the damage output to quickly dispatch enemies, and Rumor helps your generals stay alive longer. But when you have Guderian and Konev maxed out, your damage output makes Rumor unnecessary. You don’t need it to keep them alive because they kill enemies quickly, and you are sacrificing additional damage that would help you finish scenarios and conquests in fewer turns. It’s not just a little, either. It is 36 base damage if you are sacrificing each turn if you take Rumor instead of Plain Fighting and the medal boosting it. Six stars of tank skill only give you 30 base damage, for comparison. I don’t even use the Assault Medal on my top tank general because he rarely takes retaliation damage, and the added output from taking the medal for Plain Fighting is so good.
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 21:28:03 GMT
And again. You are not reading what I say. You are giving Your examples with max techs. I am talking about game progress - campaigns and domination. Once again: game progress - means techs are not MAXED. No 100% additional shot after kill. And enemy generals are much much stronger in comparison to those in conquests. Conquest with maxed techs is bad example. Generals are weak there. Btw I also can one-shot some of them in conquests. So, could You please explain what is the difference between Your one-shot and my? It has nothing to do with max tech. We are just talking about abilities and medals. Level 5 Plain Fighting with Medal is 37 damage. That is more than the difference between a general with zero tank stars and six tank stars (30 damage). How can you possibly argue that sacrificing that damage makes sense? If you are talking about level one or two Plain Fighting, it’s a different discussion, but at Level 5, it is no comparison.
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Post by andrei on Oct 21, 2017 21:32:50 GMT
Tank attack upgrades up to Pacific is 12 points. Tanks attack upgrades maxed - 48 points (36!! additional points) Now please go and check the attack of Your heavytank in Soviets 1939. As soon as You look at the screen You will understand how increadibly weaker same heavy tank will be for the player with only Pacific upgrades. For sure You can one-shot many generals. But mainly it's because of this basic attack buff due to techs. In comparison to techs influence plain figting is almost nothing for the player with no techs.
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 21, 2017 21:38:01 GMT
You either don't know what You are talking about or simply forgot, alternatively never compared tech upgrades. Tank attack upgrades up to Pacific is 12 points. Tanks attack upgrades maxed - 48 points (36!! additional points) Now please go and check the attack of Your heavytank in Soviets 1939. As soon as You look at the screen You will understand how increadibly weaker same heavy tank will be for the player with only Pacific upgrades. For sure You can one-shot many generals. But mainly it's because of this basic attack buff due to techs. In comparison to techs influence plain figting is almost nothing for the player with no techs. The tech difference DOES NOT MATTER. The 37 damage from Plain Fighting plus medal is MORE than the 30 damage you get from a six star tank ability compared to zero stars. The damage sacrifice you make by foregoing Plain Fighting and the medal is more than if you used a tank general with no tank skill versus one with six stars of tank skill. Whether the bonus damage from tech is zero, 10 or 100, that 37 points from Plain Fighting does not change. It arguably means even more with lower tech because of how proportional it is.
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