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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 14, 2021 7:42:12 GMT
I just realised, the only reason why people buy leeb endgame is because of his rumour and not being hit back (artillery). the damage output from leeb is insignificant endgame because you are relying on all your other generals to deal the damage. So i recommend not buying leeb at all and buy arnold. He is much better endgame for these reasons:
- He has lvl 4 rumour so no need to upgrade him at all unlike leeb, he can be put on artillery and do the same job as leeb to hit enemy with rumour + not get hit back
- he is super useful in conquests and campaigns too because of his air abilities, makes it much easier to take cities and speedrun conquests for farming (put on motorised infantry for maximum speed)
- he can have crowd tactic skill as 4th skill which leeb can't because for leeb you need to put accuracy. Arnold doesn't need to have that because he has no artillery stars so arnold is a better support than leeb.
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Post by idunnowhattocallthis on Oct 14, 2021 13:34:26 GMT
I would say get both, leeb is a good second artillery general (WAY better damage then arnold), but arnold is excellent support (Id still say dowding is better for conquests tho)
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 14, 2021 14:33:07 GMT
I would say get both, leeb is a good second artillery general (WAY better damage then arnold), but arnold is excellent support (Id still say dowding is better for conquests tho) no, arnold is much better and more useful than both of them when you reach endgame. I already explained how even tho leeb is 2nd best artillery general, he is still not good enough endgame because his damage is too little to be useful (tank gens are much better than artillery for dealing damage), leeb offers nothing when your tank generals are destroying large groups of enemies and taking cities, the only thing you can do with leeb is to hit enemy general with rumour first but arnold is much better than leeb at that (lvl 4 rumour vs leeb's level 1), dowding doesn't have any good skills, his economic skills doesnt make a big difference for farming conquests and he has no good air skills, he is also useless in campaigns so getting dowding or leeb is a waste of money. Only time people should buy leeb is in early game if they are struggling but i would just wait for guderian like what i did instead. |
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Post by idunnowhattocallthis on Oct 14, 2021 14:38:14 GMT
I would say get both, leeb is a good second artillery general (WAY better damage then arnold), but arnold is excellent support (Id still say dowding is better for conquests tho) no, arnold is much better and more useful than both of them when you reach endgame. I already explained how even tho leeb is 2nd best artillery general, he is still not good enough endgame because his damage is too little to be useful (tank gens are much better than artillery for dealing damage), leeb offers nothing when your tank generals are destroying large groups of enemies and taking cities, the only thing you can do with leeb is to hit enemy general with rumour first but arnold is much better than leeb at that (lvl 4 rumour vs leeb's level 1), dowding doesn't have any good skills, his economic skills doesnt make a big difference for farming conquests and he has no good air skills, he is also useless in campaigns so getting dowding or leeb is a waste of money. Only time people should buy leeb is in early game if they are struggling but i would just wait for guderian like what i did instead. What? Dowding has excellent air force skills, explosives is best and AF leader is decent as well. Give him industrial expert and the 2 medals and he will be excellent support, especially for 1 star nations |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 14, 2021 14:44:56 GMT
no, arnold is much better and more useful than both of them when you reach endgame. I already explained how even tho leeb is 2nd best artillery general, he is still not good enough endgame because his damage is too little to be useful (tank gens are much better than artillery for dealing damage), leeb offers nothing when your tank generals are destroying large groups of enemies and taking cities, the only thing you can do with leeb is to hit enemy general with rumour first but arnold is much better than leeb at that (lvl 4 rumour vs leeb's level 1), dowding doesn't have any good skills, his economic skills doesnt make a big difference for farming conquests and he has no good air skills, he is also useless in campaigns so getting dowding or leeb is a waste of money. Only time people should buy leeb is in early game if they are struggling but i would just wait for guderian like what i did instead. What? Dowding has excellent air force skills, explosives is best and AF leader is decent as well. Give him industrial expert and the 2 medals and he will be excellent support, especially for 1 star nations explosives doesn't work with air strikes tho? and he only has af leader, he doesn't have carpet bombing which is the most important for air general. Also he has trash mobility, and no rumour. Arnold is much more versatile than dowding. Those economic skills might be useful if you wanted to get world record in conquest speedrun but complete trash if you want to complete the game. arnold can be useful fighting against enemy whereas dowding can't. it's a no brainer tbh. |
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Post by tristanknight on Oct 14, 2021 19:46:18 GMT
explosives doesn't work with air strikes tho? and he only has af leader, he doesn't have carpet bombing which is the most important for air general. Also he has trash mobility, and no rumour. Arnold is much more versatile than dowding. Those economic skills might be useful if you wanted to get world record in conquest speedrun but complete trash if you want to complete the game. arnold can be useful fighting against enemy whereas dowding can't. it's a no brainer tbh. he has an open slot for carpet bombing. given he's an air general with further range than land units, his mobility doesn't need to be great. but players should know when to move him to next city. an air general that sits behind the frontlines and supports doesn't need rumor. you're entitled to your opinion, but saying Arnold is better than Leeb is just that - an opinion and not a fact. the true fact is Leeb is better, he has more mobility stars than Arnold and he has more artillery stars than Arnold - as well as having most of the artillery skills, meanwhile Arnold does not have any. maybe you haven't realized it but each star adds damage output to the general. If Leeb has the proper skills, more stars and medals, he is naturally going to do more damage on artillery than Arnold. and I say this having had both those generals. I don't mean no disrespect but you should be more open to others opinions, instead of only seeing your way. this may not have been your intention, but your posts in this thread is how I'm perceiving it. |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 14, 2021 20:55:52 GMT
explosives doesn't work with air strikes tho? and he only has af leader, he doesn't have carpet bombing which is the most important for air general. Also he has trash mobility, and no rumour. Arnold is much more versatile than dowding. Those economic skills might be useful if you wanted to get world record in conquest speedrun but complete trash if you want to complete the game. arnold can be useful fighting against enemy whereas dowding can't. it's a no brainer tbh. he has an open slot for carpet bombing. given he's an air general with further range than land units, his mobility doesn't need to be great. but players should know when to move him to next city. an air general that sits behind the frontlines and supports doesn't need rumor. you're entitled to your opinion, but saying Arnold is better than Leeb is just that - an opinion and not a fact. the true fact is Leeb is better, he has more mobility stars than Arnold and he has more artillery stars than Arnold - as well as having most of the artillery skills, meanwhile Arnold does not have any. maybe you haven't realized it but each star adds damage output to the general. If Leeb has the proper skills, more stars and medals, he is naturally going to do more damage on artillery than Arnold. and I say this having had both those generals. I don't mean no disrespect but you should be more open to others opinions, instead of only seeing your way. this may not have been your intention, but your posts in this thread is how I'm perceiving it. did you read what i even wrote? i said leeb's damage output endgame is near useless, it has no effect when most of the damage is being done by tank generals and konev. He is simply there to hit enemy with rumour without retaliation. So yes arnold is better at this than him and he provides more damage for airstrikes which is how most of the money is spent endgame for me anyway. I move in with all my generals and focus fire the enemy general. I usually don't have enough space for all my generals to come near the general to hit him so leeb is just going to be at the back doing nothing, whereas with arnold he can atleast provide increased damage from air which might not be much but it is super useful for lowering health of enemy enough for someone like guderian to one shot them and hit again. Regarding dowding, yes he is inferior to arnold. It's pretty clear why. His economic skills does nothing in campaign, he can't support your other generals like arnold can with his rumour and crowd tactics if you give him. His only benefit is in speedrun conquests like i said which i don't care about. I'm open to other people's opinion but i know what i'm talking about. I've speedrun other easytech games like european war 4, 6 and 1914. I've only played this game for 1 and a half week and i've already reached endgame - finished all hard cold war and nearly done with modern war. Just to summarise, arnold provides something that other generals don't for a very good price, which makes him unique and worth having. Ask stoic, i know he probably doesn't play anymore but you can see he has arnold in his lineup and how useful he said arnold was. |
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 14, 2021 21:47:09 GMT
I don't think you can necessarily objectively say whether Arnold or Leeb is better, since they're fundamentally different generals. Leeb is an assault-type general who specializes in doing damage and travelling. Arnold is more of an air general, and while he may be more helpful in a lot of areas his lack of mobility means it takes a while for him to move from city to city and that sort of hurts his usage in conquests. So even if he's really useful to tack on air damage, as soon as I kill the surrounding areas around him he's not much use to me anymore.
If you put Arnold and Leeb in a 1v1 matchup I think Leeb would win (assuming you spent an equal medals on both of them, which means upgrading Leeb's rumour) almost every single time, depending on your RNG.
In general you don't even really need a pure air general until very late endgame (as in UN hard mode and the final few domination missions). You can definitely make do with Nimitz and even Guderian in a city, whereas Leeb is a lot more helpful in early game and in conquests.
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Post by Manfred von Richthofen on Oct 14, 2021 23:55:32 GMT
Leeb, 2nd best artillery general.
Arnold, 2nd best air general IMO.
But, I'd suggest getting Leeb before Arnold.
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Post by tristanknight on Oct 15, 2021 3:00:52 GMT
he has an open slot for carpet bombing. given he's an air general with further range than land units, his mobility doesn't need to be great. but players should know when to move him to next city. an air general that sits behind the frontlines and supports doesn't need rumor. you're entitled to your opinion, but saying Arnold is better than Leeb is just that - an opinion and not a fact. the true fact is Leeb is better, he has more mobility stars than Arnold and he has more artillery stars than Arnold - as well as having most of the artillery skills, meanwhile Arnold does not have any. maybe you haven't realized it but each star adds damage output to the general. If Leeb has the proper skills, more stars and medals, he is naturally going to do more damage on artillery than Arnold. and I say this having had both those generals. I don't mean no disrespect but you should be more open to others opinions, instead of only seeing your way. this may not have been your intention, but your posts in this thread is how I'm perceiving it. did you read what i even wrote? i said leeb's damage output endgame is near useless, it has no effect when most of the damage is being done by tank generals and konev. He is simply there to hit enemy with rumour without retaliation. So yes arnold is better at this than him and he provides more damage for airstrikes which is how most of the money is spent endgame for me anyway. I move in with all my generals and focus fire the enemy general. I usually don't have enough space for all my generals to come near the general to hit him so leeb is just going to be at the back doing nothing, whereas with arnold he can atleast provide increased damage from air which might not be much but it is super useful for lowering health of enemy enough for someone like guderian to one shot them and hit again. Regarding dowding, yes he is inferior to arnold. It's pretty clear why. His economic skills does nothing in campaign, he can't support your other generals like arnold can with his rumour and crowd tactics if you give him. His only benefit is in speedrun conquests like i said which i don't care about. I'm open to other people's opinion but i know what i'm talking about. I've speedrun other easytech games like european war 4, 6 and 1914. I've only played this game for 1 and a half week and i've already reached endgame - finished all hard cold war and nearly done with modern war. Just to summarise, arnold provides something that other generals don't for a very good price, which makes him unique and worth having. Ask stoic, i know he probably doesn't play anymore but you can see he has arnold in his lineup and how useful he said arnold was. how exactly is Arnold better at that? you stick him on an arty, he's going to have less of an effect than Leeb. and Arnold being an air general, rumor doesn't trigger when he's using air units. unless you're putting him on a tank unit, his rumor is basically useless except in defense of a city he's in. everyone has their lineup, but one players lineup doesn't verify that Arnold is better just becausehe has him. Arnold a better air general than Leeb. and Leeb is a better artillery general than Arnold. but that's it. Dowding isn't the best but he's a pretty good air general as well. I don't have any of them anymore because I'm past endgame and realized they are all too slow to keep up with my tank generals. |
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Post by tristanknight on Oct 15, 2021 3:04:18 GMT
I don't think you can necessarily objectively say whether Arnold or Leeb is better, since they're fundamentally different generals. Leeb is an assault-type general who specializes in doing damage and travelling. Arnold is more of an air general, and while he may be more helpful in a lot of areas his lack of mobility means it takes a while for him to move from city to city and that sort of hurts his usage in conquests. So even if he's really useful to tack on air damage, as soon as I kill the surrounding areas around him he's not much use to me anymore. If you put Arnold and Leeb in a 1v1 matchup I think Leeb would win (assuming you spent an equal medals on both of them, which means upgrading Leeb's rumour) almost every single time, depending on your RNG. In general you don't even really need a pure air general until very late endgame (as in UN hard mode and the final few domination missions). You can definitely make do with Nimitz and even Guderian in a city, whereas Leeb is a lot more helpful in early game and in conquests. that's why I sold him and Dowding. they can't keep up with my pace. too bad there's not a medal that increases movement, they might be worth having then. |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 15, 2021 3:27:00 GMT
did you read what i even wrote? i said leeb's damage output endgame is near useless, it has no effect when most of the damage is being done by tank generals and konev. He is simply there to hit enemy with rumour without retaliation. So yes arnold is better at this than him and he provides more damage for airstrikes which is how most of the money is spent endgame for me anyway. I move in with all my generals and focus fire the enemy general. I usually don't have enough space for all my generals to come near the general to hit him so leeb is just going to be at the back doing nothing, whereas with arnold he can atleast provide increased damage from air which might not be much but it is super useful for lowering health of enemy enough for someone like guderian to one shot them and hit again. Regarding dowding, yes he is inferior to arnold. It's pretty clear why. His economic skills does nothing in campaign, he can't support your other generals like arnold can with his rumour and crowd tactics if you give him. His only benefit is in speedrun conquests like i said which i don't care about. I'm open to other people's opinion but i know what i'm talking about. I've speedrun other easytech games like european war 4, 6 and 1914. I've only played this game for 1 and a half week and i've already reached endgame - finished all hard cold war and nearly done with modern war. Just to summarise, arnold provides something that other generals don't for a very good price, which makes him unique and worth having. Ask stoic, i know he probably doesn't play anymore but you can see he has arnold in his lineup and how useful he said arnold was. how exactly is Arnold better at that? you stick him on an arty, he's going to have less of an effect than Leeb. and Arnold being an air general, rumor doesn't trigger when he's using air units. unless you're putting him on a tank unit, his rumor is basically useless except in defense of a city he's in. everyone has their lineup, but one players lineup doesn't verify that Arnold is better just becausehe has him. Arnold a better air general than Leeb. and Leeb is a better artillery general than Arnold. but that's it. Dowding isn't the best but he's a pretty good air general as well. I don't have any of them anymore because I'm past endgame and realized they are all too slow to keep up with my tank generals. you would put him on artillery for non retaliation, not tank. you said it yourself, once you reach endgame they are too slow so thats why leeb is not worth having, he can't catch up with tank generals but arnold can because he will just be in a city if not near them fighting enemy. Arnold will actually be useful unlike leeb |
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Post by tristanknight on Oct 15, 2021 4:25:55 GMT
how exactly is Arnold better at that? you stick him on an arty, he's going to have less of an effect than Leeb. and Arnold being an air general, rumor doesn't trigger when he's using air units. unless you're putting him on a tank unit, his rumor is basically useless except in defense of a city he's in. everyone has their lineup, but one players lineup doesn't verify that Arnold is better just becausehe has him. Arnold a better air general than Leeb. and Leeb is a better artillery general than Arnold. but that's it. Dowding isn't the best but he's a pretty good air general as well. I don't have any of them anymore because I'm past endgame and realized they are all too slow to keep up with my tank generals. you would put him on artillery for non retaliation, not tank. you said it yourself, once you reach endgame they are too slow so thats why leeb is not worth having, he can't catch up with tank generals but arnold can because he will just be in a city if not near them fighting enemy. Arnold will actually be useful unlike leeb when I said they're too slow, that includes Arnold, and Dowding too. your logic isn't making any sense. Arnold has one less mobility star, he couldn't outpace Leeb in any unit. not even my Konev can keep pace with my tank gens. the only aspects Arnold beats Leeb are air stars, air skills and overall cost to max. |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 15, 2021 6:19:40 GMT
you would put him on artillery for non retaliation, not tank. you said it yourself, once you reach endgame they are too slow so thats why leeb is not worth having, he can't catch up with tank generals but arnold can because he will just be in a city if not near them fighting enemy. Arnold will actually be useful unlike leeb when I said they're too slow, that includes Arnold, and Dowding too. your logic isn't making any sense. Arnold has one less mobility star, he couldn't outpace Leeb in any unit. not even my Konev can keep pace with my tank gens. the only aspects Arnold beats Leeb are air stars, air skills and overall cost to max. do i really have to explain this to you... i don't know why i got to keep repeating myself. I will just make this simple. Arnold in campaigns will be placed on artillery, he will at the beginning be with most of the generals and you can coordinate all your generals so they can focus fire an enemy general, when the general is killed and the tank generals start to move, arnold can't keep up so he will move into a city to use his airstrikes - that is what i mean when he can keep up with the team because even though he isn't going to be moving with the tank generals and be at the enemy lines, he will still be useful increasing damage output from city. Also, if you're worried arnold is slow even tho he has 4 stars for movement, you can put him on a tank and just be as fast as your tank generals, put him on heavy tank so he has attack range, you can't do that with leeb because he can only be put on artillery, arnold doesn't have any tank or artillery star so it doesn't matter what unit you put him on For someone who has finished the game, i would expect you to understand this... it's obvious how you would play arnold leeb and konev on the other hand can't keep up because artillery is slower than tanks. Thats why they are less useful but konev is worth having because he is the best artillery and he is also good at infantry - good for invasions. please don't underestimate arnold when he has a bigger impact than konev or leeb |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 15, 2021 8:30:48 GMT
advantages of arnold:
- much cheaper - don't need heavy investment to work like leeb with accuracy + rumour
- more useful endgame: better support (can have crowd tactics), better damage output than leeb via airstrikes vs leeb artillery damage (airstrikes have unlimited attack range unlike leeb so can spam them), still be useful at the back in cities
- versatile, can be put onto motorised infantry if you want to travel 6 hexes (great for conquest), artillery if you want to apply rumour and not get hit back, or tank if you want to apply rumour but still catch up with the tank generals
leeb advantages:
- extra damage on artillery - not useful endgame when he is too slow to move with tank generals
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