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Post by George Rudi on Oct 15, 2021 10:39:34 GMT
advantages of arnold: - much cheaper - don't need heavy investment to work like leeb with accuracy + rumour - more useful endgame: better support (can have crowd tactics), better damage output than leeb via airstrikes vs leeb artillery damage (airstrikes have unlimited attack range unlike leeb so can spam them), still be useful at the back in cities - versatile, can be put onto motorised infantry if you want to travel 6 hexes (great for conquest), artillery if you want to apply rumour and not get hit back, or tank if you want to apply rumour but still catch up with the tank generals leeb advantages: - extra damage on artillery - not useful endgame when he is too slow to move with tank generals another fanciful analysis. you can't rely much on AF strike in campaign, all of enemy units (except inf.) have anti air missile. Here's Max upgraded Arnold air damage non general tank titan (def.37): -af strike 37, bomber 34, strategic bomber 54, missile w/o nuke 87, missile with nuke 217. all of them are the damage when the AF Leader skill is triggered. they're nothing compared to Leeb's cost less arty attack (without any medal): 135 (no triggered Arty Leader), 147 (AL triggered). without mentioning the cost of industry and tech provided that won't cover your af spam, Leeb is superior than Arnold, no matter how you use them. the campaign map is not that big like a conquest, so with his mobility,he can still catch up the tank gen movement. Do i need to mention Rommel's only 3* mobility? |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 15, 2021 12:00:59 GMT
advantages of arnold: - much cheaper - don't need heavy investment to work like leeb with accuracy + rumour - more useful endgame: better support (can have crowd tactics), better damage output than leeb via airstrikes vs leeb artillery damage (airstrikes have unlimited attack range unlike leeb so can spam them), still be useful at the back in cities - versatile, can be put onto motorised infantry if you want to travel 6 hexes (great for conquest), artillery if you want to apply rumour and not get hit back, or tank if you want to apply rumour but still catch up with the tank generals leeb advantages: - extra damage on artillery - not useful endgame when he is too slow to move with tank generals another fanciful analysis. you can't rely much on AF strike in campaign, all of enemy units (except inf.) have anti air missile. Here's Max upgraded Arnold air damage non general tank titan (def.37): -af strike 37, bomber 34, strategic bomber 54, missile w/o nuke 87, missile with nuke 217. all of them are the damage when the AF Leader skill is triggered. they're nothing compared to Leeb's cost less arty attack (without any medal): 135 (no triggered Arty Leader), 147 (AL triggered). without mentioning the cost of industry and tech provided that won't cover your af spam, Leeb is superior than Arnold, no matter how you use them. the campaign map is not that big like a conquest, so with his mobility,he can still catch up the tank gen movement. Do i need to mention Rommel's only 3* mobility? you are missing the point tho, i'm not relying on arnold or leeb to do big damage, i need them to do enough damage all over the map so someone like guderian or rommel can finish off and can hit another target. Leeb can't do that. doing 30 or 40 damage is amazing if you manage to kill that target, and then guderian can hit another target for massive damage. Leeb can't do that - he is limited by movement unlike airstrikes which has unlimited range of attack. take into account how you use airstrikes rather than just pulling numbers, of course you are not going to spend all your money and industry to hit the same target with air, thats a waste, air is for support damage, not main damage. And arnold has other uses other than air like i mentioned. Leeb doesn't, he is a mid game general like vatuin. Arnold is endgame but he isn't worth it early or mid game because you won't have enough firepower from other generals which would allow you to 1 shot. |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 15, 2021 12:02:31 GMT
also, i feel like i need to make a guide on how to use airstrikes and air generals, it seems like people underestimate how useful they are because it does low damage. Once you've placed all your core generals on units (rommel, guderian, roko, konev, donitz), you don't need to spam any more units because these generals will be doing all the work - destroying targets and cities. So you will be left with accumulated resources which is much better spent on airstrikes than spamming units which can't keep up with your generals. if you spend resources wisely, you only need to make units to defend your cities.
another advantage of arnold over leeb: air frontier medal can be acquired for free which further increases arnold's damage, the artillery one is not free so arnold better for f2p
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Post by George Rudi on Oct 15, 2021 12:49:09 GMT
you are missing the point tho, i'm not relying on arnold or leeb to do big damage, i need them to do enough damage all over the map so someone like guderian or rommel can finish off and can hit another target. Leeb can't do that. doing 30 or 40 damage is amazing if you manage to kill that target, and then guderian can hit another target for massive damage. Leeb can't do that - he is limited by movement unlike airstrikes which has unlimited range of attack. take into account how you use airstrikes rather than just pulling numbers, of course you are not going to spend all your money and industry to hit the same target with air, thats a waste, air is for support damage, not main damage. And arnold has other uses other than air like i mentioned. Leeb doesn't, he is a mid game general like vatuin. Arnold is endgame but he isn't worth it early or mid game because you won't have enough firepower from other generals which would allow you to 1 shot. If the purpose is to help Guderian and Rommel so they can finish off the enemy, then Leeb can hit more than a mere 30/40 damage. He's even faster than Rommel, on par with 4* tank gen mobility. Oh, and i know how to use af attack properly. How about a challenge then, name a level on campaign mode, i'll beat it with Leeb faster than yours. Name your gen and their skill level so i can adjust it with your level. |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 15, 2021 13:34:15 GMT
you are missing the point tho, i'm not relying on arnold or leeb to do big damage, i need them to do enough damage all over the map so someone like guderian or rommel can finish off and can hit another target. Leeb can't do that. doing 30 or 40 damage is amazing if you manage to kill that target, and then guderian can hit another target for massive damage. Leeb can't do that - he is limited by movement unlike airstrikes which has unlimited range of attack. take into account how you use airstrikes rather than just pulling numbers, of course you are not going to spend all your money and industry to hit the same target with air, thats a waste, air is for support damage, not main damage. And arnold has other uses other than air like i mentioned. Leeb doesn't, he is a mid game general like vatuin. Arnold is endgame but he isn't worth it early or mid game because you won't have enough firepower from other generals which would allow you to 1 shot. If the purpose is to help Guderian and Rommel so they can finish off the enemy, then Leeb can hit more than a mere 30/40 damage. He's even faster than Rommel, on par with 4* tank gen mobility. Oh, and i know how to use af attack properly. How about a challenge then, name a level on campaign mode, i'll beat it with Leeb faster than yours. Name your gen and their skill level so i can adjust it with your level. You can't argue any of my points lol, you are still talking about leeb's damage even tho i already said its irrelevant endgame and it's not just 30/40 damage, you can spam airstrikes every round whereas leeb can only hit once so damage builds up, and no he isn't faster, tanks are faster than artillery. Leeb's mobility star helps but he will still be slow, a challenge means nothing when i have not upgraded my generals yet. depending on how many tank generals you have (say 4 - roko, vatuin/manstein, guderian and romel), leeb is 7th choice damager dealer after tank gens + konev + donitz. At that point why would you invest in another damage dealer when you can have the best support general in the game taking into account medals price, it's crazy to buy leeb endgame, and if you reach endgame and already have leeb because you struggled early on, not selling him to get someone else is dumb. He is a starter general like messe |
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 15, 2021 13:35:41 GMT
advantages of arnold: - much cheaper - don't need heavy investment to work like leeb with accuracy + rumour - more useful endgame: better support (can have crowd tactics), better damage output than leeb via airstrikes vs leeb artillery damage (airstrikes have unlimited attack range unlike leeb so can spam them), still be useful at the back in cities - versatile, can be put onto motorised infantry if you want to travel 6 hexes (great for conquest), artillery if you want to apply rumour and not get hit back, or tank if you want to apply rumour but still catch up with the tank generals leeb advantages: - extra damage on artillery - not useful endgame when he is too slow to move with tank generals Alright, let's do a damage analysis. In a typical UN scenario level you can expect to afford to use about 1 fighter per turn, or 1 missile every 2 turns (cause you need to buy other units as well). Arnold: +24 damage per turn at most, 14 of which is negated by anti-air missiles. So you can expect to do 10 more damage per turn Leeb: +19 damage per turn on artillery, 4 of which is negated by defence. So you can expect to do 15 more damage per turn Seems pretty simple, doesn't it? Plus, "much cheaper" doesn't make any sense at all since Leeb costs a full 435 medals less than Arnold, so you could theoretically upgrade his rumour to level 3 (420 medals) and still have spent less than Arnold. Versatile doesn't mean anything either as Leeb has 2 infantry stars (vs Arnold's 0) and 3 tank stars (vs Arnold's 0). The ONLY advantage Arnold has is mobility, and that is essentially insignificant if you're going to put him on an artillery (only 1 extra hex at most) |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 15, 2021 13:40:04 GMT
advantages of arnold: - much cheaper - don't need heavy investment to work like leeb with accuracy + rumour - more useful endgame: better support (can have crowd tactics), better damage output than leeb via airstrikes vs leeb artillery damage (airstrikes have unlimited attack range unlike leeb so can spam them), still be useful at the back in cities - versatile, can be put onto motorised infantry if you want to travel 6 hexes (great for conquest), artillery if you want to apply rumour and not get hit back, or tank if you want to apply rumour but still catch up with the tank generals leeb advantages: - extra damage on artillery - not useful endgame when he is too slow to move with tank generals Alright, let's do a damage analysis. In a typical UN scenario level you can expect to afford to use about 1 fighter per turn, or 1 missile every 2 turns (cause you need to buy other units as well). Arnold: +24 damage per turn at most, 14 of which is negated by anti-air missiles. So you can expect to do 10 more damage per turn Leeb: +19 damage per turn on artillery, 4 of which is negated by defence. So you can expect to do 15 more damage per turn Seems pretty simple, doesn't it? Plus, "much cheaper" doesn't make any sense at all since Leeb costs a full 435 medals less than Arnold, so you could theoretically upgrade his rumour to level 3 (420 medals) and still have spent less than Arnold. Versatile doesn't mean anything either as Leeb has 2 infantry stars (vs Arnold's 0) and 3 tank stars (vs Arnold's 0). The ONLY advantage Arnold has is mobility, and that is essentially insignificant if you're going to put him on an artillery (only 1 extra hex at most) leeb has trash attack range, arnold with airsrikes has unlimited, so damage from leeb is irrelevant, im not going to repeat my self again. Leeb needs accuracy upgraded and rumour, he will cost way more than arnold who doesn't need any extra skills or upgrades. The stars you mentioned is irrelevant, you clearly didn't read what i said when i mentioned versatility. Versatility is not about which units you can be put on, but the roles you can perform. At this point im close to giving up because you just dont want to listen. It's funny how you choose to ignore my points when i'm literally close to this finishing this game in 2 weeks, and in one thread, stoic who is also an experienced player praised arnold, but you do what you want. |
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 15, 2021 13:48:41 GMT
Alright, let's do a damage analysis. In a typical UN scenario level you can expect to afford to use about 1 fighter per turn, or 1 missile every 2 turns (cause you need to buy other units as well). Arnold: +24 damage per turn at most, 14 of which is negated by anti-air missiles. So you can expect to do 10 more damage per turn Leeb: +19 damage per turn on artillery, 4 of which is negated by defence. So you can expect to do 15 more damage per turn Seems pretty simple, doesn't it? Plus, "much cheaper" doesn't make any sense at all since Leeb costs a full 435 medals less than Arnold, so you could theoretically upgrade his rumour to level 3 (420 medals) and still have spent less than Arnold. Versatile doesn't mean anything either as Leeb has 2 infantry stars (vs Arnold's 0) and 3 tank stars (vs Arnold's 0). The ONLY advantage Arnold has is mobility, and that is essentially insignificant if you're going to put him on an artillery (only 1 extra hex at most) leeb has trash attack range, arnold with airsrikes has unlimited, so damage from leeb is irrelevant, im not going to repeat my self again. Leeb needs accuracy upgraded and rumour, he will cost way more than arnold who doesn't need any extra skills or upgrades. The stars you mentioned is irrelevant, you clearly didn't read what i said when i mentioned versatility. Versatility is not about which units you can be put on, but the roles you can perform. At this point im close to giving up because you just dont want to listen. It's funny how you choose to ignore my points when i'm literally close to this finishing this game in 2 weeks, and in one thread, stoic who is also an experienced player praised arnold, but you do what you want. What's the point of having unlimited range if you can only attack once per turn? Did you not read my post at all? You're strawmanning my argument. I answered your skill argument. Leeb costs 435 medals less than Arnold, and he can have level 3 rumour and still cost 15 medals less than Arnold. You again did not read my argument at all. You were the one who talked about versatility. I'm only answering your argument. You clearly didn't even read your own posts, much less anyone else's. I'd like to see how useful s/l will be when you try to beat domination, which does not have saving capabilities at all. And yes, Stoic praised Arnold, but did he say that he was much better than Leeb? No one is saying that he's bad. Again, You're strawmanning my argument. |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 15, 2021 13:54:20 GMT
What's the point of having unlimited range if you can only attack once per turn? Did you not read my post at all? You're strawmanning my argument. I answered your skill argument. Leeb costs 435 medals less than Arnold, and he can have level 3 rumour and still cost 15 medals less than Arnold. You again did not read my argument at all. You were the one who talked about versatility. I'm only answering your argument. You clearly didn't even read your own posts, much less anyone else's. I'd like to see how useful s/l will be when you try to beat domination, which does not have saving capabilities at all. And yes, Stoic praised Arnold, but did he say that he was much better than Leeb? No one is saying that he's bad. Again, You're strawmanning my argument. who said you can only attack 1 per turn??? i don't spam units and waste my money, i only make units when necessary to defend cities so no i don't have that problem. And you ignored the bit about leeb needing accuracy, so he will cost a lot more medals to do his job. I talked about versatility and you mentioned an unrelated point about stars which means nothing. I'm not going to be putting leeb on anything other than artillery am i? Arnold doesn't have any stars so he can do his job to apply rumour + airsupport either on a tank if he needs more speed or artillery if speed isn't an issue (to not get hit back). I've already beaten domination, i only use s/l when necessary for scenarios. To say leeb (a mid tier general) is better than arnold who has is important endgame is a joke, anyone who thinks that doesn't know how to play this game efficiently. |
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Post by George Rudi on Oct 15, 2021 14:00:32 GMT
You can't argue any of my points lol, you are still talking about leeb's damage even tho i already said its irrelevant endgame and it's not just 30/40 damage, you can spam airstrikes every round whereas leeb can only hit once so damage builds up, and no he isn't faster, tanks are faster than artillery. Leeb's mobility star helps but he will still be slow, a challenge means nothing when i have not upgraded my generals yet. depending on how many tank generals you have (say 4 - roko, vatuin/manstein, guderian and romel), leeb is 7th choice damager dealer after tank gens + konev + donitz. At that point why would you invest in another damage dealer when you can have the best support general in the game taking into account medals price, it's crazy to buy leeb endgame, and if you reach endgame and already have leeb because you struggled early on, not selling him to get someone else is dumb. He is a starter general like messe because it's worthless to argue it, and i already explain it in my earlier post about spamming airstrikes, your resource won't cover it. i knew that your gen not fully upgraded so tell me and i will adjust my gen to your level. That's not even an excuse. Just tell me that you're scared to be proven wrong about Leeb. strugle? that makes the victory more tasty. Dumb? better be a dumb than an ignorant. |
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 15, 2021 14:02:11 GMT
who said you can only attack 1 per turn??? i don't spam units and waste my money, i only make units when necessary to defend cities so no i don't have that problem. And you ignored the bit about leeb needing accuracy, so he will cost a lot more medals to do his job. I talked about versatility and you mentioned an unrelated point about stars which means nothing. I'm not going to be putting leeb on anything other than artillery am i? Arnold doesn't have any stars so he can do his job to apply rumour + airsupport either on a tank if he needs more speed or artillery if speed isn't an issue (to not get hit back). I've already beaten domination, i only use s/l when necessary for scenarios I was talking about income. It's extremely rare in scenario to earn even 200 gold per turn, are you telling me you're gonna spend all of that on air support? Light infantry costs 80 already, and that's not even close to being enough to defend a city. Most likely you'll need to use armoured cars, which cost $160. And Leeb doesn't need accuracy to do his job. He already has 5 artillery stars, that alone means he can do almost 90 damage per turn on a decent artillery. Stars are completely related to your argument. You can ABSOLUTELY put Leeb on something other than artillery, and he will always be more versatile than Arnold (unless you believe mobility is the most important part of a General). I can put level 3 rumour on Leeb and he will STILL cost less than Arnold, and do almost the exact same thing. |
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Post by George Rudi on Oct 15, 2021 14:04:44 GMT
Lol, no one here said that Leeb is better than Arnold, they're a good gen in their role. You're the one that said Arnold is much better than Leeb. And you're overly proud about almost finishing this game in 2 weeks. Finishing what? you're just almost finishing campaign, and that's not something to be overproud. That can be achieved by either you bought medals or you don't have anything to do in real life.
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 15, 2021 14:06:30 GMT
who said you can only attack 1 per turn??? i don't spam units and waste my money, i only make units when necessary to defend cities so no i don't have that problem. And you ignored the bit about leeb needing accuracy, so he will cost a lot more medals to do his job. I talked about versatility and you mentioned an unrelated point about stars which means nothing. I'm not going to be putting leeb on anything other than artillery am i? Arnold doesn't have any stars so he can do his job to apply rumour + airsupport either on a tank if he needs more speed or artillery if speed isn't an issue (to not get hit back). I've already beaten domination, i only use s/l when necessary for scenarios I was talking about income. It's extremely rare in scenario to earn even 200 gold per turn, are you telling me you're gonna spend all of that on air support? Light infantry costs 80 already, and that's not even close to being enough to defend a city. Most likely you'll need to use armoured cars, which cost $160. And Leeb doesn't need accuracy to do his job. He already has 5 artillery stars, that alone means he can do almost 90 damage per turn on a decent artillery. Stars are completely related to your argument. You can ABSOLUTELY put Leeb on something other than artillery, and he will always be more versatile than Arnold (unless you believe mobility is the most important part of a General). I can put level 3 rumour on Leeb and he will STILL cost less than Arnold, and do almost the exact same thing. it's funny how i managed to do modern war and have enough for multiple airstrikes then when i needed them. Leeb will never be more versatile because he can only provide rumour, arnold has air abilities which is invaluable. |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 15, 2021 14:09:40 GMT
You can't argue any of my points lol, you are still talking about leeb's damage even tho i already said its irrelevant endgame and it's not just 30/40 damage, you can spam airstrikes every round whereas leeb can only hit once so damage builds up, and no he isn't faster, tanks are faster than artillery. Leeb's mobility star helps but he will still be slow, a challenge means nothing when i have not upgraded my generals yet. depending on how many tank generals you have (say 4 - roko, vatuin/manstein, guderian and romel), leeb is 7th choice damager dealer after tank gens + konev + donitz. At that point why would you invest in another damage dealer when you can have the best support general in the game taking into account medals price, it's crazy to buy leeb endgame, and if you reach endgame and already have leeb because you struggled early on, not selling him to get someone else is dumb. He is a starter general like messe because it's worthless to argue it, and i already explain it in my earlier post about spamming airstrikes, your resource won't cover it. i knew that your gen not fully upgraded so tell me and i will adjust my gen to your level. That's not even an excuse. Just tell me that you're scared to be proven wrong about Leeb. strugle? that makes the victory more tasty. Dumb? better be a dumb than an ignorant. scared lol? do you even know what i've managed to do in other easytech games which are harder than wc4, you try doing those things lol. ur literally going to waste my time doing this 'challenge', once i've finished everything in this game in terms of levels, i'm not going to play anymore, i don't plan on maxing my generals when i have no reason to, same with unlocking all wonders or tech whatever. i play for efficiency, not to waste time doing useless shoot and buying generals that are not optimal. |
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Post by torvestareturn on Oct 15, 2021 14:12:35 GMT
Lol, no one here said that Leeb is better than Arnold, they're a good gen in their role. You're the one that said Arnold is much better than Leeb. And you're overly proud about almost finishing this game in 2 weeks. Finishing what? you're just almost finishing campaign, and that's not something to be overproud. That can be achieved by either you bought medals or you don't have anything to do in real life. lol imagine spending money on this game, i'm not overly proud, u just can't accept that i managed to finish this game quickly and you want to bring up things to discredit, all i did was play the game efficiently and i planned well, it's not something hard to do. Campaign, conquests and domination is the only things to do in the game, i've beaten the campaigns, i've done 1980 conquest, i've finished all the challenge and exercises, is there something that im missing? |
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