|
|
Post by torvestareturn on Oct 16, 2021 12:25:13 GMT
I've already said everything in the previous pages of this thread. Anyone with half a brain would know arnold is better than leeb on any unit other than artillery because he provides more airstrike damage, putting leeb on a tank is *Auto Corrected*ed. Good luck finishing the game on your own. Moderated by Saltin: this post has been edited for content. |
|
|
|
Post by tristanknight on Oct 17, 2021 14:21:42 GMT
Calm down, it isn't the end of the world if people disagree with you. It's not your problem if I buy a bad general. Calling a point bad and stupid does nkt make it bad and stupid unless you tell me why the point is bad. I just made a counter argument on your argument saying Arnold is better than Leeb on a tank. You say who cares about 10 extra damage, well firsf of all it's 15 extra damage and you was the one who said 30/40 damage is good if it takes out a unit. I didn't say Leeb is a great tank general, I said he is better than Arnold on a tank. Please don't attack arguments I haven't made. i've reached a point where i can't be asked to argue points any more, i've already countered everything and i'm just repeating myself, the points you make are irrelevant not worth countering, i just hope any new players that play this game don't buy leeb if they manage to reach cold war without him. i'm just annoyed that i've wasted this time trying to explain and you lot still don't understand what i'm saying. you countered with nothing except saying Arnold is better than Leeb. many players before you I'm sure has tried both and favor Leeb over Arnold when it comes to artillery. and I'm sure at least one of those players has done mathematical damage sequences between the two generals to find that out, because let's be honest, there are players like those in every game. |
|
|
|
Post by tristanknight on Oct 17, 2021 14:28:23 GMT
he makes me want to buy Leeb now. I think I will, I still have 3500 medals. have fun spending all your medals upgrading his rumour, accuracy, artillery leader and movement lol, that will cost over 3k medals, he is useless on tanks with no tank skills, i said arnold can be placed on any unit because he doesn't have any stars for artillery or tank so it's not a waste unlike leeb who you need to put on artillery otherwise you are wasting his artillery skills and stars. he might have no tank skills, but neither does Arnold, and Leeb has tank stars, which gives him an advantage over Arnold, because Arnold doesn't have those either. medals is not an issue for me, I don't need them for anything else, so I will have fun indeed. so you're trying to see Arnold as a "jack of all trades". that makes him a master of none. by your logic if I don't put Leeb on artillery I'm wasting his skills. using your logic, you're wasting Arnold's skills if you put him on anything other than a carrier or infantry unit. |
|
|
|
Post by torvestareturn on Oct 17, 2021 15:18:52 GMT
have fun spending all your medals upgrading his rumour, accuracy, artillery leader and movement lol, that will cost over 3k medals, he is useless on tanks with no tank skills, i said arnold can be placed on any unit because he doesn't have any stars for artillery or tank so it's not a waste unlike leeb who you need to put on artillery otherwise you are wasting his artillery skills and stars. he might have no tank skills, but neither does Arnold, and Leeb has tank stars, which gives him an advantage over Arnold, because Arnold doesn't have those either. medals is not an issue for me, I don't need them for anything else, so I will have fun indeed. so you're trying to see Arnold as a "jack of all trades". that makes him a master of none. by your logic if I don't put Leeb on artillery I'm wasting his skills. using your logic, you're wasting Arnold's skills if you put him on anything other than a carrier or infantry unit. No it doesn't matter what unit you put arnold on, thats the point just put him on any unit, his only job is to apply rumour and increase airstrike damage, not to do damage on land. How *Auto Corrected*ed is it to think that 1 or 2 extra stars in tank or infantry for leeb will make any difference when you will only put leeb on artillery. Realise that leeb has little impact endgame when he isn't involved in the battle 80% of the time, arnold is because airstrike can hit anyone anywhere. my generals aren't even upgraded and i'm already speedrunning conquests 1950 & 1980 conquests in 20 - 25 turns. Just put arnold in a city with space centre and spam missiles, take 4-5 cities per turn. Leeb does fk all. And in scenarios wtf is leeb going to do, when you have all the other damage dealers outperforming him. Logic or common sense is what's needed here, don't mention leeb having more stars than arnold and thinking that makes any difference. Comparing arnold one of the most useful conquest generals with a midtier general is stupid |
|
|
|
Post by tristanknight on Oct 17, 2021 15:55:31 GMT
you are just biased to Arnold lol. all the arguments you're making about Leeb can be applied to Arnold too. it actually does matter which unit you put Arnold on, if you put him on artillery, he will move slower than Leeb. infantry would be best because 1) Arnold has infantry stars and 2) infantry has the best mobility in the game of any unit. Arnold would be useful for a few turns, but if he's on artillery and can't keep up with the frontlines, by your logic, he'll be as useless as Leeb after a few turns.
Leeb having more stars does make a difference. you're aware each star adds damage? Leebs 5 star adds +24 damage. it might not seem like much, but it adds up over the course of a battle.
also, just because you finished the game in 12 minutes doesn't make you an expert on generals lol. you have your opinion, but unless you can prove mathematically that arnold is better than Leeb, I don't care for it. but I don't believe you can because someone already posted their mathematics and that favors Leeb
|
|
|
|
Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 17, 2021 16:15:31 GMT
you are just biased to Arnold lol. all the arguments you're making about Leeb can be applied to Arnold too. it actually does matter which unit you put Arnold on, if you put him on artillery, he will move slower than Leeb. infantry would be best because 1) Arnold has infantry stars and 2) infantry has the best mobility in the game of any unit. Arnold would be useful for a few turns, but if he's on artillery and can't keep up with the frontlines, by your logic, he'll be as useless as Leeb after a few turns. Leeb having more stars does make a difference. you're aware each star adds damage? Leebs 5 star adds +24 damage. it might not seem like much, but it adds up over the course of a battle. also, just because you finished the game in 12 minutes doesn't make you an expert on generals lol. you have your opinion, but unless you can prove mathematically that arnold is better than Leeb, I don't care for it. but I don't believe you can because someone already posted their mathematics and that favors Leeb I would agree that Arnold is probably more useful in conquests. At least until he kills all the cities within 13 hexes of him, then he's essentially useless unless by the time you move him to another relevant city you haven't taken the cities surrounding THAT city using missiles already. Leeb is slow for an artillery general, but since he isn't an air general he isn't static so he can easily move outside Arnold's range within 3 turns. But Leeb is a lot more useful in scenario. The math analysis I did (which Torves ignored), shows that, assuming you can afford a maximum of, say, 20 fighters and 6 missiles in a 20-turn scenario level (which is extremely high), then Arnold does about +7-ish damage per fighter or +12-ish damage per missile per turn, for a total damage output of about 210 damage max (and maybe tack on 25 if he's attacking any troops on infantry/artillery). Whereas Leeb does about 15+ damage per turn (assuming you're the one attacking and enemies don't target him), then he can do about 300 damage. On infantry he can also do 80, but idk why you'd want to put Leeb on infantry lol. He's better suited for tanks and artillery. |
|
|
|
Post by torvestareturn on Oct 17, 2021 16:18:13 GMT
No, leeb is slower than arnold, he only has 1 star than can be upgraded to 5 which very few people do because he isn't a priority, there are 6 or 7 generals more important than him, and arnold already stars with 4, arnold won't be useless after tanks progress frontline because he can stay in city and increase airdamage but you fail to realise that and apparently don't know how to use air generals.
The maths don't mean shoot when everyone plays different and i play to win fast, theres a reason why i can finish this game faster than any of you and i can speedrun conquests faster than you guys with the same general lineup + tech. Your opinions are irrelevant unless you can achieve the same things i did. i'm an expert because i've completed the other harder easytech games fast as well, ofc you're still playing wc4 and i bet you haven't even tried ew6 or ew6 1914.
|
|
|
|
Post by torvestareturn on Oct 17, 2021 16:20:09 GMT
you are just biased to Arnold lol. all the arguments you're making about Leeb can be applied to Arnold too. it actually does matter which unit you put Arnold on, if you put him on artillery, he will move slower than Leeb. infantry would be best because 1) Arnold has infantry stars and 2) infantry has the best mobility in the game of any unit. Arnold would be useful for a few turns, but if he's on artillery and can't keep up with the frontlines, by your logic, he'll be as useless as Leeb after a few turns. Leeb having more stars does make a difference. you're aware each star adds damage? Leebs 5 star adds +24 damage. it might not seem like much, but it adds up over the course of a battle. also, just because you finished the game in 12 minutes doesn't make you an expert on generals lol. you have your opinion, but unless you can prove mathematically that arnold is better than Leeb, I don't care for it. but I don't believe you can because someone already posted their mathematics and that favors Leeb I would agree that Arnold is probably more useful in conquests. At least until he kills all the cities within 13 hexes of him, then he's essentially useless unless by the time you move him to another relevant city you haven't taken the cities surrounding THAT city using missiles already. Leeb is slow for an artillery general, but since he isn't an air general he isn't static so he can easily move outside Arnold's range within 3 turns. But Leeb is a lot more useful in scenario. The math analysis I did (which Torves ignored), shows that, assuming you can afford a maximum of, say, 20 fighters and 6 missiles in a 20-turn scenario level (which is extremely high), then Arnold does about +7-ish damage per fighter or +12-ish damage per missile per turn, for a total damage output of about 210 damage max (and maybe tack on 25 if he's attacking any troops on infantry/artillery). Whereas Leeb does about 15+ damage per turn (assuming you're the one attacking and enemies don't target him), then he can do about 300 damage. On infantry he can also do 80, but idk why you'd want to put Leeb on infantry lol. He's better suited for tanks and artillery. why would you assume i can only afford 20 fighters and 6 missiles, im good at managing my resources, and leeb will not be in range all the time to hit priority targets (enemy generals, cities or objectives) so ur argument is already flawed, arnold is superior |
|
|
|
Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 17, 2021 16:49:08 GMT
This isn't an argument about being good or bad at managing resources. Are you telling me you've ever used fighter more than 20 times in a scenario level? I'd like to see how much money you had left to defend your cities.
Let's take UN 1 for example. The maximum amount of money you can earn is about $150, 30-ish industry, and 8 missiles. A fighter costs $75 and limited industry. A missile costs 75 industry and 8-12 tech. Are you telling me you can't do math?
Your argument is flawed as well. What's gonna happen when Arnold takes all the cities within 13 hexes of him? What's he gonna do then? Just sit in his city? Cause that's what you're saying. What are you gonna do with Arnold when you finish launching missiles at the cities next to him and they're taken? Do you know how long it takes to move Arnold from city to city?
Did you even read any of my posts? I don't think you did. And I doubt you're reading this one either.
Edit: Ok, let's do this step-by-step. How many missiles and planes do YOU expect to use per turn on a typical scenario level?
|
|
|
|
Post by tristanknight on Oct 17, 2021 16:49:17 GMT
you aren't reading my posts apparently. Arnold has limited range, so if the frontlines are moving faster than Arnolds maxed mobility, he will fall behind eventually and be out of range of the frontlines. yeah, the generals more important than him are the tank generals and Konev.
you play to win fast, Arnold excels at that only. he doesn't surpass Leeb on tank or artillery. you don't seem to understand this fact. I'm past the endgame, I'm far past your achievements lol.
and that makes you an expert in those respective ET games, not wc4. when you realize each general excels at a specific thing and aren't useless, then you'll begin your path to being an expert. in this case, Leeb excels at artillery and is above average at tank, Arnold excels at air power.
|
|
|
|
Post by torvestareturn on Oct 17, 2021 17:27:48 GMT
This is how i play arnold in scenarios: i put him on rocket artillery, i use him to target enemy generals to apply rumour, if i need to take a city or lower the health of a target so one of my tank generals can finish, then i will move him into the city, once i've done that, then he can continue moving with the rest of my generals applying rumour. In a lot of scenarios, the objectives are spread around on all corners of the map, so what i do is i save up most of my money not buying any units.
I only use my starting units with generals on them, they are capable to take out most of the objectives just focus firing, once i've killed a general or taken an objective, i move onto the next, i build armoured cars or infantry to guard the city objective, sometimes i can keep arnold and donitz or konev near the objective to keep an enemy general confused (spamming rumour) instead of killing that general so my tank generals can push ahead. Near the end of the scenario, i would have so much resources i will move my arnold to a city, build a space centre, spam missiles + ion cannon on the last remaining objective which is most likely on the other side of the map + paratroop. Without arnold, i wouldn't be able to do this.
|
|
|
|
Post by torvestareturn on Oct 17, 2021 17:31:02 GMT
If my generals are moving faster than him, then i have the option of moving him to a city where he can send airstrikes to support my other generals, so he is still involved in the fight, i've already explained this severals times.
I don't give a fk if ur past endgame, you've probably spent many months if not years trying to complete the game which i did in 2 weeks. So don't talk to me about leeb excelling arnold, i've learnt more about this game in the 2 weeks.
When im done with this i'm going to speedrun european war 7 while u will still be here on wc4 forums
|
|
|
|
Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 17, 2021 17:50:52 GMT
You didn't answer my question. That proves that you don't read anyone's posts. Maybe instead of insulting people you should read their posts and see their arguments.
The part about Arnold using rumour to attack enemy generals can be done identically, if not better, on a rocket artillery by Leeb (I can get him level 3 rumour and he will do more damage, stun lock generals just the same, and cost less than Arnold). I don't see how that proves your point.
And plus, you said that Arnold is only going to use his air capabilities at the VERY END of the level. How many missiles are you going to build? Cause if the city you're attacking has any anti-air missiles you're not going to do more than 12 extra damage per missile.
Again, I ask you. How many missiles would you expect to launch in a typical endgame scenario level? Cause it sure ain't gonna be more than 10.
|
|
|
|
Post by torvestareturn on Oct 17, 2021 18:02:24 GMT
How is leeb cheaper than arnold , arnold comes with 4 stars movement and level 4 rumour and costs like 80 medals more than leeb, but if u want to upgrade leeb to level 4 rumour and 4 stars movement, that will cost over 1.6k medals. i've just played un hard and i've used the exact strategy i explained with arnold, so why do you keep questioning.
|
|
|
|
Post by George Rudi on Oct 17, 2021 18:04:03 GMT
You didn't answer my question. That proves that you don't read anyone's posts. Maybe instead of insulting people you should read their posts and see their arguments. The part about Arnold using rumour to attack enemy generals can be done identically, if not better, on a rocket artillery by Leeb (I can get him level 3 rumour and he will do more damage, stun lock generals just the same, and cost less than Arnold). I don't see how that proves your point. And plus, you said that Arnold is only going to use his air capabilities at the VERY END of the level. How many missiles are you going to build? Cause if the city you're attacking has any anti-air missiles you're not going to do more than 12 extra damage per missile. Again, I ask you. How many missiles would you expect to launch in a typical endgame scenario level? Cause it sure ain't gonna be more than 10. As much as possible of course, because it's only work in his deluded mind. Too bad there's no PvP mode here. |
|
