|
Post by Nobunaga Oda on Mar 11, 2024 14:25:38 GMT
Playing in the 3rd era as the Mogami clan. I made a key miscalculation: trying to woo the Uesugi.
This led to quite a lot of wasted potential and resources:
- Ignored the NE blue clan (Ogaki, I think) when I should've just destroyed them and pushed my prestige up. - Delayed my invasions of the other 1*-2* clans around me. Same reason as above. - Wasted resources to woo Uesugi instead of letting relations fall and turning the clan into a subordinate. - Could've saved Shibata from a multi-front war so that it could suppress its surrounding neighbours and fight Hideyoshi. Now, its back and forth struggle for Uozu will continue until various clans turn the tide. Hashiba wins with one less challenger present.
I believe that this strategy applies to many of the eastern clans for this map. Force Uesugi to kneel, destroy all surrounding clans, and take the southern route to attack Hashiba.
|
|
|
Post by kyokusanagi on Mar 11, 2024 21:22:49 GMT
Playing in the 3rd era as the Mogami clan. I made a key miscalculation: trying to woo the Uesugi. This led to quite a lot of wasted potential and resources: - Ignored the NE blue clan (Ogaki, I think) when I should've just destroyed them and pushed my prestige up. - Delayed my invasions of the other 1*-2* clans around me. Same reason as above. - Wasted resources to woo Uesugi instead of letting relations fall and turning the clan into a subordinate. - Could've saved Shibata from a multi-front war so that it could suppress its surrounding neighbours and fight Hideyoshi. Now, its back and forth struggle for Uozu will continue until various clans turn the tide. Hashiba wins with one less challenger present.
I believe that this strategy applies to many of the eastern clans for this map. Force Uesugi to kneel, destroy all surrounding clans, and take the southern route to attack Hashiba. same like in life.... small fish are easier to take. But great that someone tried, marked and remembered.
|
|
|
Post by Nobunaga Oda on Mar 12, 2024 5:45:11 GMT
Do we have a limit for the number of vassal / subordinate clans? If not, I recommend declaring war and paying to subjugate clans along the way rather than ally them and pray they will attack. Of course, it must be noted to know your economic and financial status well first. It does not require much sense to know that if you cannot afford to gamble and fight your wars, you should not gamble.
The clans in the 3rd era are fearful of Hideyoshi due to his extremely large prestige and army. They have near-zero odds of fighting. Tsutsui, Anegakoji, Takigawa and even faraway Osaki. It must be acknowledged that Anegakoji, who doesn't ally with Hashiba, is only a few points more willing to fight. Even Mori, who I managed to convert from a Hashiba subordinate into my subordinate, refused to raise an army even though I gifted it nearly 10k copper.
For the 3rd era:
Does it matter conquered the last Akechi territory? It seemed like relations with Tokugawa dropped as Hashiba and Takigawa whenever I dealt the final blow. If relations drop and drop to the same extent, then there is no issue. If they drop to different extents or do not drop at all when others deal the final blow, it might be best to avoid being the conqueror.
If there is a difference caused by us taking glory versus someone else, dealing the final blow to Akechi, it might be more prudent to let someone else take the fall.
|
|
|
Post by Airi Momoi on Mar 12, 2024 13:56:10 GMT
Do we have a limit for the number of vassal / subordinate clans? If not, I recommend declaring war and paying to subjugate clans along the way rather than ally them and pray they will attack. Of course, it must be noted to know your economic and financial status well first. It does not require much sense to know that if you cannot afford to gamble and fight your wars, you should not gamble. The clans in the 3rd era are fearful of Hideyoshi due to his extremely large prestige and army. They have near-zero odds of fighting. Tsutsui, Anegakoji, Takigawa and even faraway Osaki. It must be acknowledged that Anegakoji, who doesn't ally with Hashiba, is only a few points more willing to fight. Even Mori, who I managed to convert from a Hashiba subordinate into my subordinate, refused to raise an army even though I gifted it nearly 10k copper.
For the 3rd era: Does it matter conquered the last Akechi territory? It seemed like relations with Tokugawa dropped as Hashiba and Takigawa whenever I dealt the final blow. If relations drop and drop to the same extent, then there is no issue. If they drop to different extents or do not drop at all when others deal the final blow, it might be best to avoid being the conqueror. If there is a difference caused by us taking glory versus someone else, dealing the final blow to Akechi, it might be more prudent to let someone else take the fall. For your first part, no. I believe it is theoretically possible (if not tedious) to do a "Shogun" run where you subjugate every non-ambitious clan in the game. Just beware of the case where your prestige isn't high enough so they break free of you. I wouldn't really recommend focusing on subjugation though (even though I do it) since it's easier to kill some small ones like Anegakoji and Kiso, both of whom having the misfortune of being in the middle of the map. I wouldn't rely on subordinates or allies for fighting your wars either. For the second part, whoever deals the final blow to Akechi loses 100? relation points with all these factions (not including themselves): Hashiba, Oda, G.Oda, Shibata, Takigawa, Tokugawa. This only occurs to whoever defeats them: so if you're playing Oda and Hashiba defeats Akechi, you'll suddenly hate Hideyoshi and will be pushed towards war against him, but Katsuie will still remain your best friend. I don't think it matters that much though, given most of these large factions will probably be a thorn in your side, alliance or no alliance. Especially Hashiba, as for some reason Hideyoshi starts with a ton of prestige and they have the strength to continue growing unlike the Shogun in Battles in Owari, so more likely than not to get a hegemony victory you'll need to deal with them. I'd say don't worry about who kills Akechi and instead focus on conquering more castles and increasing your prestige, as most clans will fall in line (even Tokugawa with a few small gifts!)
|
|
|
Post by Nobunaga Oda on Mar 12, 2024 15:53:08 GMT
I disagree with the part on not worrying about who suffers the penalty of beating Akechi.
It would be strategically unwise to immediately gain hostility from everyone around you (I think Shibata does take a hit because he seemed to have dropped to +100 points from, presumably, something higher). This is more so when you might get surprised by powerful threats.
I had to gamble to restore Tokugawa from -98 with our Passage Agreement to +150 at 25-27% chance. This occurs while Tokugawa has no foes and my troops are split guarding against Uesugi, invading Hojo and wandering Oumi-Kansai. As Hashiba, I didn't have a problem because invading Kansai and moving eastward, with a small force on Shikoku. It is easier than, say, Gifu Oda with potential enemies around, the main Oda clan with everyone else around you, or Takigawa with Tokugawa to the SW.
|
|
|
Post by Airi Momoi on Mar 12, 2024 18:50:56 GMT
I disagree with the part on not worrying about who suffers the penalty of beating Akechi. It would be strategically unwise to immediately gain hostility from everyone around you (I think Shibata does take a hit because he seemed to have dropped to +100 points from, presumably, something higher). This is more so when you might get surprised by powerful threats. I had to gamble to restore Tokugawa from -98 with our Passage Agreement to +150 at 25-27% chance. This occurs while Tokugawa has no foes and my troops are split guarding against Uesugi, invading Hojo and wandering Oumi-Kansai. As Hashiba, I didn't have a problem because invading Kansai and moving eastward, with a small force on Shikoku. It is easier than, say, Gifu Oda with potential enemies around, the main Oda clan with everyone else around you, or Takigawa with Tokugawa to the SW. Ah, I didn't explain my example scenario well enough, whoops! Essentially this acts pretty similarly to what happens when a faction defeats the Shogun, what happens to you will transfer to them. So when Hashiba kills Akechi while you're playing Oda, only Hashiba will get the relation drops and not you (you only get it with Hashiba). If you kill Akechi, then Hashiba, Oda, G.Oda, Shibata, Takigawa, and Tokugawa will drop 100 points. It's not instant war often, but it'll bring you closer to fighting. But you do raise a good point about G.Oda, Takigawa, and Oda. Hashiba gets away with it very easily and everyone Hideyoshi angers are in his natural expansion route anyway. I believe Shibata can take the heat as well, and even Oda with some good management. But G.Oda, yeah they shouldn't kill Akechi, the pressure will probably kill you. I haven't done a run of them, and honestly Oda Nobutaka seems like a challenge in his own right even if you don't anger the other successors to Nobunaga.
|
|
|
Post by SolidLight on May 18, 2024 10:44:09 GMT
So I decided to try for a semi serious low turncount run again after not having done it in a while. Wasn’t even that time consuming either. But I probably won’t do one again unless I think I can beat this time.
|
|
|
Post by SolidLight on May 21, 2024 11:12:32 GMT
I’m starting to really reconsider the idea of putting the vast majority of your generals on special units. It’s pretty obvious with teppo since every special teppo unit except one that barely exists is nowhere near good enough to warrant their price over the good ol’ Teppo Ashigaru.
But it’s rarely worth doing with the other unit types too, surprisingly. Even if the Mounted Archer is awesome and every special cavalry unit is much much better than Cavalry Brigade. At some point the difference of a general on a special unit and a regular unit is just nowhere near as significant as the boost that the retainers give you. I mean, +20% damage on EVERY unit you have is busted, and so are the upkeep and resource boosts once you’re pretty big. And I just don’t think colleges pay back quickly enough to make that investment worthwhile. So it’s probably only worthwhile if you DO have a good special unit in the early game available, and kinda in the late game because you’ll have tons of knowledge even with 5 retainers. (Though this doesn’t matter for most people).
So yeah, the last two runs have been like 90% of my guys on 3x Teppo Ashigaru/Cavalry Brigade/Archer Ashigaru. Some even were on 2 stacks. The only one I’m kinda iffy on is the regular infantry Ashigaru since its damage is just way too bad for generals imo. I did manage to use SOME infantry whenever I had a bit of knowledge and it made sense to make them though. And the ninja is very cool in the mid/late game since it’s the only (worthwhile) unit that can innately ignore interrupt and is very cheap and has surprisingly good stats. Like at lv.17 it has higher attack than the Elite Samurai for some reason. (Elite Samurai is still stronger though because of Berserker)
I guess I should maybe try to use the Naginata Cav too since it’s got a damage boost against infantry unlike the Cavalry Brigade. It’s just not feasible at all for me since mine is pretty low level and there’s just no good way to get tons of horse harnesses like with flags and arrows.
|
|
|
Post by jonblend on May 21, 2024 12:45:31 GMT
So I decided to try for a semi serious low turncount run again after not having done it in a while. Wasn’t even that time consuming either. But I probably won’t do one again unless I think I can beat this time. Motivated by this I went back to owari in hopes of quickly collecting 30 pieces of each upgrade material. Turns out I already did Nagano, so W.Takeda it was.
Seems like I forgot that nobody wants to be(come) our ally in the first conquest and my usual diplomacy based strategy (-20 initial penalty and -7 per turn) took a long time to bear fruits.
edit: lol, forgot to ask the question:
How long did it take irl? moving around 119 units seems like quite the hassle but so does skipping turns while gifting and allying. I'm always looking for ways to save time.
|
|
|
Post by SolidLight on May 21, 2024 13:02:03 GMT
So I decided to try for a semi serious low turncount run again after not having done it in a while. Wasn’t even that time consuming either. But I probably won’t do one again unless I think I can beat this time. Motivated by this I went back to owari in hopes of quickly collecting 30 pieces of each upgrade material. Turns out I already did Nagano, so W.Takeda it was.
Seems like I forgot that nobody wants to be(come) our ally in the first conquest and my usual diplomacy based strategy (-20 initial penalty and -7 per turn) took a long time to bear fruits.
edit: lol, forgot to ask the question:
How long did it take irl? moving around 119 units seems like quite the hassle but so does skipping turns while gifting and allying. I'm always looking for ways to save time.
3 hours I think. And it’s more like 60-80 units past turn 22 or so since a lot of guys just had no chance of contributing anymore after they were done with their jobs. I only did it since I wanted to see how far I could push the turncount down. If I didn’t care for doing that I could have autoed on like turn 17.
|
|
|
Post by SolidLight on May 21, 2024 14:09:54 GMT
I’m doing Hatano now. So this time I went even harder in on this strat than I did before. Hatano starts with a 2 stack cav brigade and a 2 stack archer ashigaru, so I got to deploy 5 gens on turn 1. I then delivered a massive first strike on Miyoshi and Wakasa Takeda. On turn 4 I’ve already obliterated Wakasa and have 9 gens out. That I have Kenshin is a massive advantage since I don’t think I’m reliably doing this with F2P guys. Turn 10. Nobody really has anything scary anymore. Asakura is on the ropes and everyone south is getting eaten up. Isshiki has declared war on me but I’m more than ready to counterattack there. At this point the only special units I have are two 3 stack elite cavs.
|
|
|
Post by jonblend on May 21, 2024 21:38:36 GMT
How long did it take irl? moving around 119 units seems like quite the hassle but so does skipping turns while gifting and allying. I'm always looking for ways to save time.
3 hours I think. And it’s more like 60-80 units past turn 22 or so since a lot of guys just had no chance of contributing anymore after they were done with their jobs. I only did it since I wanted to see how far I could push the turncount down. If I didn’t care for doing that I could have autoed on like turn 17. My run also took me roundabout 3 hours (can't tell exactly because I did it in two sessions). I recall repeatedly checking the prestige tab - it took way too long to reach >700 points. Next time I'll try to be more aggressive using your approach of putting generals on "inferior" units. Being too low in prestige doesn't allow for effective gifting and we'll have to reach Zenith/Formidable anyways.
|
|
|
Post by SolidLight on May 22, 2024 16:28:30 GMT
Did an Armed Unification Mori run, and saw I had a chance at a lower turncount, so I went for it. This is probably THE easiest conquest in the whole game. There’s a bunch of weaklings right in front of you who should die like 2-3 turns right after they end up in war with you, and that huge diplo penalty later on doesn’t really matter since none of the factions in the center should be any threat at that point. The Shikoku clans are no threat at all since the AI completely sucks at naval invasions. You just walk forwards and stomp everything. Turn 19-21 were kinda time-consuming but I just moved like 30 units or so after that since everyone were dead. I reached Overlord by like turn 18 and had almost 60 gens out on turn 19 with this strat. Not bad. I also would have gotten a 23 turn finish if I hadn’t failed this one. Stupid luck.
|
|
|
Post by kyokusanagi on May 23, 2024 7:16:17 GMT
I have same feeling, now is the time to finish as many as possible in the 3rd round. I ve just finished Mori, and it looked as AI went somewhere and never returned.
|
|
|
Post by balthazar on Aug 14, 2024 17:24:41 GMT
@solidlight is that a challenge run? If so what do you do for such a rush game? My runs take much longer, it Would be cool if you can direct a little.
|
|