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Post by stoic on Feb 5, 2024 9:44:46 GMT
We have a second package of free medals only on 12th day  Besides, many new players struggle to play (let alone to win) conquests even having some generals at their disposal. So, only a very experienced player can win them without any general from the scratch, so, I tend to agree with jonblend Remember I didn't take campaigns, challenge conquests, events, and challenges into consideration. Beginners should be able to gather at least 600 medals from there. If doing 3 regular conquests is too much then we can narrow it to just Finland, and you can get an S with Finland even you finish in 100+ turns. A beginner should be able to beat Finland and collect that 650 medals by following guides. It is not about just collecting medals. I think it is comparable to a business model. You have money for either buying an expensive car or opening a bakery. If you bought a car you have a car. But if you open a bakery and start operating and producing immidietly - then soon enough you have enough money to purchase a car. And you have a car ... and a bakery... The main aim of the start of the game, as I see it, is to collect as much as possible to invest it and to get even more. Expensive generals (and Guderian is a hell of an expensive general) only prevent a player from collecting as much valuable resources as it is possible to collect with a handful of less expensive generals. And unlike resources inside the game those of Events, daily missions and such are lost for good if not collected on time. And we don't speak about a couple of medals. It is a more serious stuff. Just two examples: Ribbons. More that a week I can safely farm 2 Ribbons per run, including the most important ones. Is it possible to do it with only a couple of expensive generals? The answer is clearly "no".  Events. With a capable team it is possible to complete "Wipe out the Enemy" Events and other ones. And rewards are exceptionally good for a novice players. Like 300 medals plus a bunch of other values resources including fragments of elite units. Moreover it is possible to complete a couple of missions on hard as well. Is it possible to complete them on normal with one Guderian? I don't know the answer, but probably "no" as well.  If you don't play these missions and events right from the start you deliberately miss resources including medals. And they are gone, lost forever. So, here we have a classic concept to trade "space for time". Guderian can wait. It is possible to buy him whenever a player finds it appropriate. A bunch of cheap but capable generals can do the job a lone Guderian can't do. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 6, 2024 0:36:43 GMT
Remember I didn't take campaigns, challenge conquests, events, and challenges into consideration. Beginners should be able to gather at least 600 medals from there. If doing 3 regular conquests is too much then we can narrow it to just Finland, and you can get an S with Finland even you finish in 100+ turns. A beginner should be able to beat Finland and collect that 650 medals by following guides. It is not about just collecting medals. I think it is comparable to a business model. You have money for either buying an expensive car or opening a bakery. If you bought a car you have a car. But if you open a bakery and start operating and producing immidietly - then soon enough you have enough money to purchase a car. And you have a car ... and a bakery... The main aim of the start of the game, as I see it, is to collect as much as possible to invest it and to get even more. Expensive generals (and Guderian is a hell of an expensive general) only prevent a player from collecting as much valuable resources as it is possible to collect with a handful of less expensive generals. And unlike resources inside the game those of Events, daily missions and such are lost for good if not collected on time. And we don't speak about a couple of medals. It is a more serious stuff. Just two examples: Ribbons. More that a week I can safely farm 2 Ribbons per run, including the most important ones. Is it possible to do it with only a couple of expensive generals? The answer is clearly "no". Events. With a capable team it is possible to complete "Wipe out the Enemy" Events and other ones. And rewards are exceptionally good for a novice players. Like 300 medals plus a bunch of other values resources including fragments of elite units. Moreover it is possible to complete a couple of missions on hard as well. Is it possible to complete them on normal with one Guderian? I don't know the answer, but probably "no" as well. If you don't play these missions and events right from the start you deliberately miss resources including medals. And they are gone, lost forever. So, here we have a classic concept to trade "space for time". Guderian can wait. It is possible to buy him whenever a player finds it appropriate. A bunch of cheap but capable generals can do the job a lone Guderian can't do. What's your recommended "capable starting team" then? |
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Post by stoic on Feb 6, 2024 2:12:09 GMT
It is not about just collecting medals. I think it is comparable to a business model. You have money for either buying an expensive car or opening a bakery. If you bought a car you have a car. But if you open a bakery and start operating and producing immidietly - then soon enough you have enough money to purchase a car. And you have a car ... and a bakery... The main aim of the start of the game, as I see it, is to collect as much as possible to invest it and to get even more. Expensive generals (and Guderian is a hell of an expensive general) only prevent a player from collecting as much valuable resources as it is possible to collect with a handful of less expensive generals. And unlike resources inside the game those of Events, daily missions and such are lost for good if not collected on time. And we don't speak about a couple of medals. It is a more serious stuff. Just two examples: Ribbons. More that a week I can safely farm 2 Ribbons per run, including the most important ones. Is it possible to do it with only a couple of expensive generals? The answer is clearly "no". Events. With a capable team it is possible to complete "Wipe out the Enemy" Events and other ones. And rewards are exceptionally good for a novice players. Like 300 medals plus a bunch of other values resources including fragments of elite units. Moreover it is possible to complete a couple of missions on hard as well. Is it possible to complete them on normal with one Guderian? I don't know the answer, but probably "no" as well. If you don't play these missions and events right from the start you deliberately miss resources including medals. And they are gone, lost forever. So, here we have a classic concept to trade "space for time". Guderian can wait. It is possible to buy him whenever a player finds it appropriate. A bunch of cheap but capable generals can do the job a lone Guderian can't do. What's your recommended "capable starting team" then? - Tito, Cerar (immidietly), Bastico on day 1 or 2 (depending on the pace of actual play). Bastico is already Colonel so the condition of upgrading a rank of your general (Starter pass) is fulfilled automatically. They can do daily Invasions and Tasks immidietly bringing resources and unlocking medals. - On day two or three %40 discount Konev. With some upgrades of Artillery tech tree it is possible to unlock 40% discount right on day 2 with this team. - On day three Pavlov. Then, again, depending on the pace of a player in campaigns, conquests and Domination missions on day 4 to 6 Yamaguchi or Raeder. Then a good Infantry general. I don't have any objections against Higuchi. He's good for Warzone. On day 7 Horton. And then 40% discount Rommel. In less than 10 days a player may have a team capable to farm 2 Ribbons per run and complete easy time-limited Events. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 6, 2024 4:56:49 GMT
What's your recommended "capable starting team" then? - Tito, Cerar (immidietly), Bastico on day 1 or 2 (depending on the pace of actual play). Bastico is already Colonel so the condition of upgrading a rank of your general (Starter pass) is fulfilled automatically. They can do daily Invasions and Tasks immidietly bringing resources and unlocking medals. - On day two or three %40 discount Konev. With some upgrades of Artillery tech tree it is possible to unlock 40% discount right on day 2 with this team. - On day three Pavlov. Then, again, depending on the pace of a player in campaigns, conquests and Domination missions on day 4 to 6 Yamaguchi or Raeder. Then a good Infantry general. I don't have any objections against Higuchi. He's good for Warzone. On day 7 Horton. And then 40% discount Rommel. In less than 10 days a player may have a team capable to farm 2 Ribbons per run and complete easy time-limited Events. That's not a fair comparison. The equivalent of Guderian in your path is Tito-Crerar-Bastico. I don't think the 3 combined is better than Guderian. Even of Guderian is hard to reach, I'd prefer Messe and/or Leeb/Nenonen. |
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Post by stoic on Feb 6, 2024 5:07:36 GMT
- Tito, Cerar (immidietly), Bastico on day 1 or 2 (depending on the pace of actual play). Bastico is already Colonel so the condition of upgrading a rank of your general (Starter pass) is fulfilled automatically. They can do daily Invasions and Tasks immidietly bringing resources and unlocking medals. - On day two or three %40 discount Konev. With some upgrades of Artillery tech tree it is possible to unlock 40% discount right on day 2 with this team. - On day three Pavlov. Then, again, depending on the pace of a player in campaigns, conquests and Domination missions on day 4 to 6 Yamaguchi or Raeder. Then a good Infantry general. I don't have any objections against Higuchi. He's good for Warzone. On day 7 Horton. And then 40% discount Rommel. In less than 10 days a player may have a team capable to farm 2 Ribbons per run and complete easy time-limited Events. That's not a fair comparison. The equivalent of Guderian in your path is Tito-Crerar-Bastico. I don't think the 3 combined is better than Guderian. Even of Guderian is hard to reach, I'd prefer Messe and/or Leeb/Nenonen. Tito, Cerar and Bastico together are something like 600-700 medals cheaper than Guderian. And together they can do more than Guderian at the start of the game. So, it is not a question of whom being better, but only of medals management. Even List is better than Guderian as a first general, because his further upgrades don't really matter at the start of the game. It is possible to postpone his development until later. The most important thing is that you immidietly (on day two at most) get a powerful Tank general for a price that is more than 1000 medals cheaper than the price of Guderian. And after initial stages you can sell Tito and Cerar getting 600 medals more back. So, for almost a price of Guderian (he's only something like 400 medals cheaper than both Konev and Bastico) is possible to buy both Bastico and Konev and it is a huge advantage over Guderian alone. The point is to start to play as fast as you can in different modes of the game and 3 generals we can already have on day 3 - Bastico, Pavlov and Konev can do wonders, and truth be told Tito and Cerar make a good contribution at the start of the game as well. If it is possible to get Konev after 3 days of playing, why on earth do we need Leeb or Neonen so early in the game? And since it is possible to get a top tier Tank general (Bastico or List) on day 2 and Pavlov on day 3, - purchasing Messe is not relevant anymore. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 6, 2024 11:05:53 GMT
That's not a fair comparison. The equivalent of Guderian in your path is Tito-Crerar-Bastico. I don't think the 3 combined is better than Guderian. Even of Guderian is hard to reach, I'd prefer Messe and/or Leeb/Nenonen. Tito, Cerar and Bastico together are something like 600-700 medals cheaper than Guderian. And together they can do more than Guderian at the start of the game. So, it is not a question of whom being better, but only of medals management. Even List is better than Guderian as a first general, because his further upgrades don't really matter at the start of the game. It is possible to postpone his development until later. The most important thing is that you immidietly (on day two at most) get a powerful Tank general for a price that is more than 1000 medals cheaper than the price of Guderian. And after initial stages you can sell Tito and Cerar getting 600 medals more back. So, for almost a price of Guderian (he's only something like 400 medals cheaper than both Konev and Bastico) is possible to buy both Bastico and Konev and it is a huge advantage over Guderian alone. The point is to start to play as fast as you can in different modes of the game and 3 generals we can already have on day 3 - Bastico, Pavlov and Konev can do wonders, and truth be told Tito and Cerar make a good contribution at the start of the game as well. If it is possible to get Konev after 3 days of playing, why on earth do we need Leeb or Neonen so early in the game? And since it is possible to get a top tier Tank general (Bastico or List) on day 2 and Pavlov on day 3, - purchasing Messe is not relevant anymore. I'm sure you've heard of the low hanging fruit principle. As the game progresses it gets harder to obtain medals, your Tito-Crerar-Bastico team will inevitably progress with greater difficulty than a team that starts with Guderian. Selling Tito and Crerar right after the earliest stage means you waste 140 medals in early game. The resources you missed due to not having those 2 is certainly less than that. Those two add pretty much nothing to the squad anyway. For the case of Messe, even if he doesn't get a tank later in game, he can just hop onto another spare unit and contribute with Rumor. If you can afford all of Tito, Crerar, and Bastico within 2 days, I don't see any reason you cannot get Guderian in similar amount of time. How many resources do you lose in 2 days? I mentioned Leeb or Nenonen because they can work like that Govorov before Guderian in WC3, an endgame worthy general clearly within the reach of beginners. They are not a must. Even in pre-update versions Messe usually could satisfied the need, let alone current versions. Another thing on Yamaguchi, I think beginners should develop Darlan as their first admiral and those two free admirals can carry them pretty far. Yamaguchi can wait. Therefore, my recommendation for starting path is Guderian - Konev - Rommel - Arnold - Higuchi. |
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Post by stoic on Feb 6, 2024 11:35:49 GMT
Tito, Cerar and Bastico together are something like 600-700 medals cheaper than Guderian. And together they can do more than Guderian at the start of the game. So, it is not a question of whom being better, but only of medals management. Even List is better than Guderian as a first general, because his further upgrades don't really matter at the start of the game. It is possible to postpone his development until later. The most important thing is that you immidietly (on day two at most) get a powerful Tank general for a price that is more than 1000 medals cheaper than the price of Guderian. And after initial stages you can sell Tito and Cerar getting 600 medals more back. So, for almost a price of Guderian (he's only something like 400 medals cheaper than both Konev and Bastico) is possible to buy both Bastico and Konev and it is a huge advantage over Guderian alone. The point is to start to play as fast as you can in different modes of the game and 3 generals we can already have on day 3 - Bastico, Pavlov and Konev can do wonders, and truth be told Tito and Cerar make a good contribution at the start of the game as well. If it is possible to get Konev after 3 days of playing, why on earth do we need Leeb or Neonen so early in the game? And since it is possible to get a top tier Tank general (Bastico or List) on day 2 and Pavlov on day 3, - purchasing Messe is not relevant anymore. I'm sure you've heard of the low hanging fruit principle. As the game progresses it gets harder to obtain medals, your Tito-Crerar-Bastico team will inevitably progress with greater difficulty than a team that starts with Guderian. Selling Tito and Crerar right after the earliest stage means you waste 140 medals in early game. The resources you missed due to not having those 2 is certainly less than that. Those two add pretty much nothing to the squad anyway. For the case of Messe, even if he doesn't get a tank later in game, he can just hop onto another spare unit and contribute with Rumor. If you can afford all of Tito, Crerar, and Bastico within 2 days, I don't see any reason you cannot get Guderian in similar amount of time. How many resources do you lose in 2 days? I mentioned Leeb or Nenonen because they can work like that Govorov before Guderian in WC3, an endgame worthy general clearly within the reach of beginners. They are not a must. Even in pre-update versions Messe usually could satisfied the need, let alone current versions. Another thing on Yamaguchi, I think beginners should develop Darlan as their first admiral. Yamaguchi can wait. You are not serious about Darlan, aren't you  After 2 weeks of playing I have a capable team of generals and I have no idea how to get him. It is possible to complete a couple of challenge conquests as minor players using supreme power of German and Japanese elite units, but that is basically all. No way a new player can unlock Darlan. And you need two of them to farm safely 2 Ribbons per run. Even if it is technically possible it requires titanic efforts. I think an experienced and dedicated player who has years of experience behind him can try it just for fun, but don't forget that we are talking about new players who just started the game recently. My point about Bastico, Tito, Cerar and Konev and Pavlov was that it is possible to play Warzone and Events right away. Of course, I can get Guderian instead of Bastico. But then I have to save again for Konev from the scratch. And it is impossible to complete Beginner pass, because you need Konev (or to spend additional medals on Guderian's rank) to get Pavlov. So, my statement is that on day 3 any player who recently started the game can have 5 generals (Tito, Cerar, Bastico, Konev, Pavlov). It allows us to start farming Ribbons and to complete time-limited Events for Beginners. Concerning the relative power of generals. Guderian is better than Bastico. But is investing in Bastico a blunder? No way. He is a capable general with a very promising potential. You'll find place for Bastico in every f2p team, that's for sure. So, again, my point was that it is better to purchase a tank general who is significantly cheaper than Guderian, but who can play the role of Guderian just as fine. And the rest of resources it is possible to allocate somewhere else. Because the more generals you have at the start the better. And I assure you that Tito and Cerar may earn a sum of medals far exceeding 140 medals. |
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Post by jonblend on Feb 6, 2024 18:11:57 GMT
Good thing you pointed out the "Colonel" requirement for starter pass, this means another 300-500 medals unless we buy someone who already has the rank. Are there any alternatives to Bastico given that Pavlov and Rommel will follow shortly?
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Post by Jeanne d'Arc on Feb 6, 2024 18:18:58 GMT
Good thing you pointed out the "Colonel" requirement for starter pass, this means another 300-500 medals unless we buy someone who already has the rank. Are there any alternatives to Bastico given that Pavlov and Rommel will follow shortly? I just used that (and the upgrading skill one) as an excuse to upgrade Leeb's rank and "Rumor" skill. |
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Post by stoic on Feb 6, 2024 19:04:15 GMT
Good thing you pointed out the "Colonel" requirement for starter pass, this means another 300-500 medals unless we buy someone who already has the rank. Are there any alternatives to Bastico given that Pavlov and Rommel will follow shortly? Well, actually there is a solution if someone doesn't want to buy Bastico. It works with every general within Bastico's price range. Let's say someone purchases Vatutin as his first medal general and then unlocks 40% discount for Konev and purchases him. So, every general should work provided he helps us to obtain 40% discount for Konev. Last but not least  we should have 1600 medals in reserve (or to earn it soon after that). But I think that having 3 Tank generals at the start isn't "too much". It's because of Warzone. We have exactly 3 tanks there in Steel Warzone. Two in the Tank mission and one in the final battle. And farming Steel Warzone is of paramount importance for a new player because out of 6 Ribbons there 3 are Honor Ribbons including the most important  Just to illustrate my point  |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 6, 2024 23:43:05 GMT
Good thing you pointed out the "Colonel" requirement for starter pass, this means another 300-500 medals unless we buy someone who already has the rank. Are there any alternatives to Bastico given that Pavlov and Rommel will follow shortly? Well, actually there is a solution if someone doesn't want to buy Bastico. It works with every general within Bastico's price range. Let's say someone purchases Vatutin as his first medal general and then unlocks 40% discount for Konev and purchases him. So, every general should work provided he helps us to obtain 40% discount for Konev. Last but not least we should have 1600 medals in reserve (or to earn it soon after that). But I think that having 3 Tank generals at the start isn't "too much". It's because of Warzone. We have exactly 3 tanks there in Steel Warzone. Two in the Tank mission and one in the final battle. And farming Steel Warzone is of paramount importance for a new player because out of 6 Ribbons there 3 are Honor Ribbons including the most important Just to illustrate my point What do you mean by that 1600 reserve? Do you suggest if you get Bastico you'd have 1600 medals to afford Konev right away when you beat his 40% but in Guderian's case you need to save up that 1600 after beating Konev's 40%? |
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Post by stoic on Feb 7, 2024 1:24:17 GMT
Well, actually there is a solution if someone doesn't want to buy Bastico. It works with every general within Bastico's price range. Let's say someone purchases Vatutin as his first medal general and then unlocks 40% discount for Konev and purchases him. So, every general should work provided he helps us to obtain 40% discount for Konev. Last but not least we should have 1600 medals in reserve (or to earn it soon after that). But I think that having 3 Tank generals at the start isn't "too much". It's because of Warzone. We have exactly 3 tanks there in Steel Warzone. Two in the Tank mission and one in the final battle. And farming Steel Warzone is of paramount importance for a new player because out of 6 Ribbons there 3 are Honor Ribbons including the most important Just to illustrate my point What do you mean by that 1600 reserve? Do you suggest if you get Bastico you'd have 1600 medals to afford Konev right away when you beat his 40% but in Guderian's case you need to save up that 1600 after beating Konev's 40%? Well, the difference between the two is almost 1200 medals. So, yes, you can afford purchasing Konev quite soon. I did it on day 3 without too much efforts. Is it possible to get both Guderian and Konev on day 3? Well, I presume it is if you don't have a life outside WC4 |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 7, 2024 1:32:51 GMT
What do you mean by that 1600 reserve? Do you suggest if you get Bastico you'd have 1600 medals to afford Konev right away when you beat his 40% but in Guderian's case you need to save up that 1600 after beating Konev's 40%? Well, the difference between the two is almost 1200 medals. So, yes, you can afford purchasing Konev quite soon. I did it on day 3 without too much efforts. Is it possible to get both Guderian and Konev on day 3? Well, I presume it is if you don't have a life outside WC4 Don't forget you bought Tito and Crerar. That narrows the gap by a lot. Why Tito and Crerar anyway? They aren't good by any means. Messe alone will do. |
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Post by stoic on Feb 7, 2024 1:47:01 GMT
Well, the difference between the two is almost 1200 medals. So, yes, you can afford purchasing Konev quite soon. I did it on day 3 without too much efforts. Is it possible to get both Guderian and Konev on day 3? Well, I presume it is if you don't have a life outside WC4 Don't forget you bought Tito and Crerar. That narrows the gap by a lot. Why Tito and Crerar anyway? They aren't good by any means. Messe alone will do. Well, they are two cheapest generals on the game. The majority of tasks at the start of the game require 2 generals. Besides, Cerar's Crowd tactics is one level higher than that of Messe and it was my first medal that improved it by 50% (so, it was 12 points of attack bonus for friendly units). And later in the Warzone I used two of them in Infantry trial. My average result was 300 points, I still can't consistently repeat it with only one Rundstedt. So, there is definitely safety in numbers. If we buy Bastico on day 2 and unlock Pavlov on day 3 we need rather Infantry generals rather than Messe. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 7, 2024 1:49:41 GMT
Don't forget you bought Tito and Crerar. That narrows the gap by a lot. Why Tito and Crerar anyway? They aren't good by any means. Messe alone will do. Well, they are two cheapest generals on the game. The majority of tasks at the start of the game require 2 generals. Besides, Cerar's Crowd tactics is one level higher than that of Messe and it was my first medal that improved it by 50%. And later in the Warzone I used two of them in Infantry trial. My average result was 300 points, I still can't consistently repeat it with only one Rundstedt. So, there is definitely safety in numbers. If we buy Bastico on day 2 and unlock Pavlov on day 3 we need rather Infantry generals rather than Messe. Then as I've said, Tito-Crerar-Bastico only costs 400 fewer than Guderian. Your 1600 argument doesn't stand. Even if it does, it means Guderian path can also start with ~1200. |
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After 2 weeks of playing I have a capable team of generals and I have no idea how to get him. It is possible to complete a couple of challenge conquests as minor players using supreme power of German and Japanese elite units, but that is basically all. No way a new player can unlock Darlan. And you need two of them to farm safely 2 Ribbons per run.
we should have 1600 medals in reserve (or to earn it soon after that). But I think that having 3 Tank generals at the start isn't "too much". It's because of Warzone. We have exactly 3 tanks there in Steel Warzone. Two in the Tank mission and one in the final battle. 
